MORE Hearthstone Green Mountain 60 - ISSUES

[cabinwarmer]

Additional : Do you have any type of temp gauge? FYI: I do not even crack the door for my top down lights. Just full open intake for around 20 minutes and then back it closed from there. Once the flames get small, I add splits of dry ash to get the first load started.

 

[begreen]

So the installer came back today and stuck on another three sections of chimney (9 feet?) and added bracing so it's a decent amount above the roof peak. Looks crazy compared to anything else around here. I wonder about the bracing.

So how much chimney is up there now? Take a picture of the chimney and post it.

I was dealing with a contractor on another matter (bad timing) when they were trying to install the replacement part but when I got to talk to them they said they couldn't get the old part out as the hex driver was spinning on the bolt that held in in place. They speculated that when it was installed originally the thread had been stripped. Great. I still have the new part. It doesn't look that different from what I can see of the old part. I may get a hex driver and see if I can manage to get the bolt out. The difference between old and new part may be that the air hole is ever so slightly bigger. I can measure both holes without removing the old LPAO. They also fixed the baffle at the top so it is seated properly.

Boy, that's pretty frustrating. They don't sound that knowledgeable. Is there a nut on the back of the bolt or is it tapped into the casting?

 

[cabinwarmer]

Looks like from the tech spec posted previously it is just a threaded screw. THAT will be an issue. Retap?

 

[LakeCabin]

Various photos of the new part. And one photo I took of the old part in the stove I took about a week ago.

 

[LakeCabin]

Here's a photo of the extended chimney. It looks like a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket. Originally there was just the bottom section to which they added three new sections. It looks a little ridiculous to me, even more so given it didn't fix the issue and I'm not sure the bracing is sufficient or properly placed for the length of chimney. It's hard to tell the height relative to the ridge line from the photo. I think the top of the third section is probably about a foot or so above the ridge line. So the top of the 4th section is out in space, The dormer peak in the middle is a foot or so higher than the ridge line. At it's closest the ridge is about 16 feet from the chimney.

 

[begreen]

You're right. It does look rocket and by the height, it also looks like it needs a second brace at the 10 ft level. If the dealer can't resolve the issues with the stove, they need to take it back. Do they sell other brands? How important is the tax credit to you?

 

[LakeCabin]

Yes, they do sell other brands. I think Vermont Castings and Regency. When I talked to the dealer this morning he said they'd had problems with some installs of other brands and models. The dealer appears to be struggling with the 2020 stoves and figuring out why they work well for some people and not others. He said we could change it but there's a good chance it might not make a difference. I not sure he's well served by the installers. They strike me as rather casual and slapdash about the process. Maybe that approach to installing may have worked on older stoves but not these.

 

[begreen]

Of those choices, some Regencies breathe easier. I would look into the model F2450. It will work on a 12-13' flue system. Or the F2500 if a hybrid cat stove is preferred.

 

[Highbeam]

Crazy tall flue. To get the 15’ that many new stoves require, mine would look similar with those braces and it’s too bad that stove manufacturers couldn’t have all agreed on a lower length like 12’.

 

[cabinwarmer]

Good Day, have we solved:
1- The LPAO part? What effect does the old part (stripped screw) have on functionality? Why did the dealer send the new one in the first place?
2- Wood MC?
3- Not sure I understand the top down burn procedure burn effect. Does the kindling wood burn well at all with door closed? Is it part of the same wood supply from the basement?
4- Some temperature readings may also help with troubleshooting. The CAT analog meter on the side really does nothing to help describe your issue except that there is a good pull when the door is open.

Might be worth time proving the issue with this stove before having the same dealer, and same installation guys come back and do more damage.

 

[LakeCabin]

I have been out all day so will try to catch up with some of the comments above. Thanks.

So some more information on the new part. The installers said they couldn't get the bolt out that held the old LPAO in place. They speculated that the head was stripped. I bought a 5/32 hex bit today which is needed to take the bolt out. I had it through the front hole to the back of the LPAO and sure enough it grips onto nothing. It's facing into the stove so you can't see anything so I stuck my phone into the fire box and tried to take photos. In the photos I couldn't see any head there. So maybe the head wasn't stripped but sheared off. If it was sheared off there should be nothing holding the LPAO in place so I tried using some needle-nose pliers to pull it out. Sure enough it came right out. As far as I can see the new part is identical to the old part. It sits in a little trench quite snugly. At the bottom there is a small hole for the air to come up through the LPAO. I think if the head had been sheared off it would probably have been too large to go though the hole at the bottom of the LPAO. I looked at the parts diagram and list and the bolt is item 57 part 4800-2132. The bolt is used elsewhere including holding the slider for the front air control in place. I took that bolt out to see if it would screw into the threaed hole at the back of the LPAO cavity. It screws in fine so I don't think the LPAO was ever bolted to the stove as it is supposed to be. The new part apparently didn't come with a new bolt so I can't bolt either the new or old part back in without stealing from elsewhere on the stove. I can't see if the LPAO bolt hole dead-ends or whether it goes straight through a threaded metal part. Presumably if the latter that might impact the airflow. Or maybe not. I have no idea if this is significant. It seems trivial but an indication that maybe there were some assembly issues. One wonders what other parts might not have been assembled correctly.

I will try to post photos tomorrow. I'm on a slow DSL line here. Tomorrow I have a faster connection and it will be easier to upload.

 

[cabinwarmer]

Put the screw in your pocket and stop at the hardware store and get a replacement. I have not had mine apart but if there was nothing holding the original in place, could it have been blocking the main air flow? With the baffles out of place and now this bolt missing, was the previous owner working on this? Keep working it, you will get it soon! I sent email to both my dealer and to Hearthstone to see what has caused them to ship out new parts. I will post any responses I get. Ask your dealer what exactly the new part is suppose to help with? You see no difference in size, so why did you send it to you?

 

[begreen]

I agree. I would take out one of those complete, matching screws, then go to the local hardware store and match it. Note that there is a good chance that the screw thread is metric.

 

[cabinwarmer]

AND - the MC of your wood.........plz be sure you have dry wood!

 

[LakeCabin]

Old LPAO installed and removed. I stuck a vacuum hose in the cavity to suck out any ash and dirt.

 

[LakeCabin]

Old and new LPAO. They appear identical to me.

 

[LakeCabin]

AND - the MC of your wood.........plz be sure you have dry wood!

I have tested the moisture with a moisture meter and the readings have indicated that the wood is dry. When I start a fire it starts easily with little paper. It starts so easily I imagine I could get it to start with just wood shavings if I tried. The installers also came with their own dry wood and didn't get the stove to work properly.

 

[LakeCabin]

I agree. I would take out one of those complete, matching screws, then go to the local hardware store and match it. Note that there is a good chance that the screw thread is metric.

Good idea. I was only there over the weekend. I didn't get a chance to get to the hardware store again.

 

[LakeCabin]

The dealer is talking to Hearthstone about the problem. My understanding from the dealer is that that 2020 stoves (and not just Hearthstones) have been a bit of a coin toss. In some places they work really well and some places they don't and there is not much inbetween. And it is often difficult and frustrating to figure out what the problem is when they don't work as designed.

 

[begreen]

The dealer is talking to Hearthstone about the problem. My understanding from the dealer is that that 2020 stoves (and not just Hearthstones) have been a bit of a coin toss. In some places they work really well and some places they don't and there is not much inbetween. And it is often difficult and frustrating to figure out what the problem is when they don't work as designed.

That sounds like someone is shifting the blame. In general, the 2020 stoves have performed reasonably well so far. There were doubts at first for some of the new designs, but most comments have been positive, including a few for the Green Mountain series.

 

[begreen]

The LPAO appears to be a fixed, boost air restrictor. Wonder how the stove would burn with it left out?

 

[LakeCabin]

That's not my impression. I don't think they understand why it's not working and are also frustrated. Anyway we are giving Hearthstone a chance to provide some more input but if we can't get it to work it's going back. What we do if it goes back is a question. Would a different 2020 stove work better? Or will we have the same problems?

 

[begreen]

That's not my impression. I don't think they understand why it's not working and are also frustrated. Anyway we are giving Hearthstone a chance to provide some more input but if we can't get it to work it's going back. What we do if it goes back is a question. Would a different 2020 stove work better? Or will we have the same problems?

There are good 2020 stoves that will work on a shorter flue made by Regency and Pacific Energy.

 

[LakeCabin]

There are good 2020 stoves that will work on a shorter flue made by Regency and Pacific Energy.

Thanks. The dealer also stocks Regency so that may be a possibility if we get to that point.

 

[begreen]

Thanks. The dealer also stocks Regency so that may be a possibility if we get to that point.

I mentioned a couple models earlier.