Monitoring Electricity Use...

[maple1]

why monitor use just to cut kw's. cost relates and reason to cut,save ,don't use it.

What?

 

[Highbeam]

What?

Yes, I agree, what?

As far as why monitor, well, there are several reasons but by monitoring the consumption we can reduce consumption which is about the only thing we have control over. Reducing consumption of a resource has other benefits but the only way to reduce your bill is to reduce your consumption.

 

[johnny1720]

The reason I want to monitor is because I want to be able to actually measure what appliances are consuming. I have a Kill A Watt Meter but I am interested in the well pump, dryer, electric range and other 220 volt items.

Last year I replaced my well pump and I reduced the daily KW consumption about 2 KwH's per day which is $.30 cents a day or $9.00 per month.

 

[Where2]

I have a Kill A Watt Meter but I am interested in the well pump, dryer, electric range and other 220 volt items.

My TED 1001 has been happily monitoring my electric water heater all month. Next billing cycle month, I'll be monitoring the electric dryer. In a perfect world, I'd have a Brultech Green Eye Monitor, but my budget for gadgets went dry when I changed jobs in 2012.

 

[Highbeam]

The reason I want to monitor is because I want to be able to actually measure what appliances are consuming. I have a Kill A Watt Meter but I am interested in the well pump, dryer, electric range and other 220 volt items.

Last year I replaced my well pump and I reduced the daily KW consumption about 2 KwH's per day which is $.30 cents a day or $9.00 per month.

That's perfect.

You'll really know when your water heater cycles. It is an instant 4500 watt load. Very obvious when it is on and it stays on until the stat is satisfied. I do not notice it running for no reason to make up for standby losses. I do notice that it runs during and after somebody takes a shower for a period.

The dryer is fun to watch since it cycles the element. I always thought that dryers burned the heater element all the time but no, they cycle. So it would be possible to measure the on/off cycles in minutes and also the total run time of the dryer. Changes in dryer venting, load size, or even dryness of washed laundry could effect the consumption.

Your well pump will be fun to watch. It will kick on and consume less watts at first since it is only fighting low pressure but as the pressure in your tanks builds, the load will increase, until it kicks off. At least that's what I would expect. Maybe, since it is a centrifugal pump, the wattage will be constant but the flow of water being pumped will reduce as pressure goes up. You'll get to find out!

After you have a home monitor, the killawatt is less useful. I can see a lamp turned on. These things are very accurate.

 

[semipro]

Maybe, since it is a centrifugal pump, the wattage will be constant but the flow of water being pumped will reduce as pressure goes up.

I put an amp meter on my well pump and observed this behavior, initial high current at motor start then constant current until the shut-off pressure is reached.

 

[johnny1720]

I have the following setups

-well pump
-electric dryer - energy star
-electric range
-geothermal - energy star
-mostly leds or cfl bulbs
-energy star upright freezer
-energy star double door fridge
-energy dishwasher
-small dorm fridge (for beer)

I unplug all VCRs, game consoles, phone chargers, kids toys. During the summer with out the geothermal running my base use is 30 KwH per day. I have never been able to get lower than this. I have had an electrician out and we can't find any issues. Does that seem excessive to anyone?

 

[Highbeam]

I have the following setups

-well pump
-electric dryer - energy star
-electric range
-geothermal - energy star
-mostly leds or cfl bulbs
-energy star upright freezer
-energy star double door fridge
-energy dishwasher
-small dorm fridge (for beer)

I unplug all VCRs, game consoles, phone chargers, kids toys. During the summer with out the geothermal running my base use is 30 KwH per day. I have never been able to get lower than this. I have had an electrician out and we can't find any issues. Does that seem excessive to anyone?

Yes. How do you heat your hot water? Without my hot tub I am down around 14 kwh per day with everything normal. I don't have a well pump to power but I do have electric everything, a wife, and two daughters.

 

[johnny1720]

Tankless Propane I put the kill a watt meter in it and it didn't use a whole KwH in two days.

 

[maple1]

Is your well pump a deep well? You could have a leak down there?

 

[woodgeek]

30 kWh/day, I'd be looking hard to find something....

 

[johnny1720]

Is your well pump a deep well? You could have a leak down there?

My well is only 75' deep. Last May I replaced the pump, electric wire, pipe and bladder tank. When I did this my electric usage went down 2 KwH per day. I can guarantee nothing is leaking down there.

I also have a sub-panel in my garage. It is fed overhead, three breakers, lights, outlets and a 75 watt sodium vapor light.

 

[johnny1720]

30 kWh/day, I'd be looking hard to find something....

I am,

- new fridge 12/12
- new dryer 11/12
- new dishwasher 01/13
- new well pump 5/13
- new satellite system that uses less electric than my old satellite 3/14

I paid an electrician to come and inspect and he found no vampire loads. He installed new ground rods and brought the panel back into compliance.

 

[CaptSpiff]

..... my base use is 30 KwH per day. I have never been able to get lower than this. I have had an electrician out and we can't find any issues.

Maybe your fridge light is staying on.....

 

[Ashful]

I was surpised at how little the fridge used. I forget the exact number but hardly anything and this is another one of those energy hog myths. I wouldn't replace a fridge until it breaks or is needed for some other reason than energy efficiency.

I wonder about this, Highbeam. We have two new'ish refrigerators with vastly different times to thaw in a power outage. I'm talking maybe 5:1 ratio, although it's tough to say for sure given different installation conditions. I'd bet some refrigerators are real energy hogs, whether it be from age, manufacturer's defects (probably my case), poor design, improper installation...

I put my efergy e2 up a couple days ago. Even with everything I know of idle, I am at 360W.

Loan me that thing for a day or three, if you want some numbers to make you feel better about your situation.

 

[Highbeam]

I am,

- new fridge 12/12
- new dryer 11/12
- new dishwasher 01/13
- new well pump 5/13
- new satellite system that uses less electric than my old satellite 3/14

I paid an electrician to come and inspect and he found no vampire loads. He installed new ground rods and brought the panel back into compliance.

The clamp on ampmeter or a whole house monitor will find your leak. You investigate each circuit one at a time until you find the culprit.

 

[maple1]

My well is only 75' deep. Last May I replaced the pump, electric wire, pipe and bladder tank. When I did this my electric usage went down 2 KwH per day. I can guarantee nothing is leaking down there.

I also have a sub-panel in my garage. It is fed overhead, three breakers, lights, outlets and a 75 watt sodium vapor light.

Is the pump in the well? It doesn't take much some times to get a foot valve to seeping a bit - and with the pump in the well you'd never know it was running. Unless you had a monitor of some kind on the circuit.

That is a huge base load. My average total consumption runs in the 20kwh/day area. You've got something sucking the juice.

EDIT: Do you have a septic system? Any pumps in that anywhere?

 

[Highbeam]

Is the pump in the well? It doesn't take much some times to get a foot valve to seeping a bit - and with the pump in the well you'd never know it was running. Unless you had a monitor of some kind on the circuit.

That is a huge base load. My average total consumption runs in the 20kwh/day area. You've got something sucking the juice.

EDIT: Do you have a septic system? Any pumps in that anywhere?

If I suspected a leak in the pipe I would watch the system. Just go sit by your pressure tank and see if the thing loses pressure when nobody is using water, see how often it cycles, better yet shut the pump off when you leave for a day and when you return see if the pressure dropped. That pump is not supposed to do anything unless you are using water. In addition, pumping water from a 75 foot well does not take much energy so it will be a small pump. Every well system I've worked on is equipped with pressure gauges so you can watch the on/off switch do its thing.

You're looking for something big. Burning that kind of juice will make noise and heat. I expect that it is a constant load sucking your juice due to the immensity.

Go to home depot and buy a Klein clamp on ampmeter, I don't recall the cost but under 50$. Open your panel. And with everything "off" measure the amperage running from the meter to the main breaker. Then measure the amounts leaving each circuit breaker. The breaker flow should add up to the main's flow. Write each one down. You will find one or three that are pulling amperage. Then figure out what is on that circuit that could be sucking juice.

Do you have a bunch of dusk to dawn outside lights?

 

[johnny1720]

Is the pump in the well? It doesn't take much some times to get a foot valve to seeping a bit - and with the pump in the well you'd never know it was running. Unless you had a monitor of some kind on the circuit.

That is a huge base load. My average total consumption runs in the 20kwh/day area. You've got something sucking the juice.

EDIT: Do you have a septic system? Any pumps in that anywhere?

I can tell when my well pump turns on, when in the basement I hear it click on and off when water is running. I am 100% sure the well pump is not the issue.

I have only one 75 watt sodium vapor light on my barn. It has an eye and turns on and off automatically.


I have a septic but there are no pumps of any type. It is a traditional setup

I will grab a clamp on meter and check

 

[maple1]

I'm just trying to figure out what could possibly use that much juice without being noticed. Pumps that are in the well are my suspect no.1 - because you can't hear them run (my shallow well pump is in my basement & my brain seems to have established an internal alarm that kicks me every time it hears the pump kick in), and yes even though you can tell when they cut in & out by being by the well tank & watching pressures & listening for clicks, you have to be right there watching. A seep in a foot valve could cause slow pressure drop, and be caused by the tiniest piece of dirt, and make a pump cut in several times per night while you are sleeping. If you've ruled it out to your satisfaction, that's good - highbeam has a good hint to shut it off say for overnight & check for pressure drop after a few hours. But with everything that gets ruled out, the question gets bigger & more puzzling. That's a fairly big draw for nothing obvious using power - about 1250 watts 24/7.

 

[semipro]

Johnny,
I have a geothermal system also. It has resistance heating elements that are used only in emergency heating mode. I had a contactor in the system go bad once and one of the elements was energized 24/7. If I recall correctly it pretty much doubled (or more) our energy usage.

 

[CaptSpiff]

That's a fairly big draw for nothing obvious using power - about 1250 watts 24/7.

Right. Think of a hair dryer or toaster, ON & running every hour for 24hrs a day.

Which is why the OP is probably mistaken in his original claim.

I take trouble reports from non-experts as a job. When I get there it is almost never as described. That's life. And it pays my bills.

 

[CaptSpiff]

OK, I just re-read my post above and it reads like I'm trying to pick a fight, when I'm really trying to be funny. I guess I'll keep my day job!

Re the Post:

I have the following setups

-well pump
-electric dryer - energy star
-electric range
-geothermal - energy star
-mostly leds or cfl bulbs
-energy star upright freezer
-energy star double door fridge
-energy dishwasher
-small dorm fridge (for beer)

I unplug all VCRs, game consoles, phone chargers, kids toys. During the summer with out the geothermal running my base use is 30 KwH per day. I have never been able to get lower than this. I have had an electrician out and we can't find any issues. Does that seem excessive to anyone?

You've got an all electric situation. In the summer, even without the geo running, you've got kids so you're using the range 3 times a day, the electric dryer probably does a load a day, plus the dishwasher. All that at 30KwH a day ain't bad.

Well, it is where I live cause I pay 22 cents per KwH. That's why I practice conservation like it was my religion.

Like others have mentioned. Open up the panel and start amp-probing (clamping) each ckt.

 

[Highbeam]

You've got an all electric situation. In the summer, even without the geo running, you've got kids so you're using the range 3 times a day, the electric dryer probably does a load a day, plus the dishwasher. All that at 30KwH a day ain't bad.

I think it is bad. I measure half of that and I have kids too. His use is double mine. As though another house is hooked up.

 

[johnny1720]

Johnny,
I have a geothermal system also. It has resistance heating elements that are used only in emergency heating mode. I had a contactor in the system go bad once and one of the elements was energized 24/7. If I recall correctly it pretty much doubled (or more) our energy usage.

I have my electric resistance backup turned off at the breaker. I only turn it on when it is below 5 degrees out