Long time coming--installed a Lopper Drummer 45 boiler

[jebatty]

Tell me more about how you measured efficiency. I think anything in the 80+% range is good, and obviously the higher the better. I have used two methods. Both methods use weighed wood burns and assume 20% moisture content and 400F average flue temperature, and with those assumptions wood has heat content of 6040 btu/lb of available energy

1) Conduct burn with the entire output going to storage, no other system demand, measure the increase in temperature of the storage over a period of time, calculate stored btu's. Not measured in this method is heat loss from the boiler itself, the plumbing and the storage tank. For my system the plumbing and the storage tank are both quite well insulated.

2) Conduct burn with known boiler gpm flow rate, log supply and return temperatures over time, and calculate btu output of the boiler over time. Not measured in this method is heat loss from the boiler itself.

Both of these methods measure heat captured to the system.

 

[Onfoot]

Tell me more about how you measured efficiency.

I was simply using the tables that I attached to my previous post, extrapolating a bit, given my moisture content at 15%. The Lopper control panel shows me the flue temp and O2 content, giving me two parameters needed for the tables.

 

[Spartan]

A late congrats on your purchase!

I was reading up on "rotary grates" and lo and behold, your thread showed up.

It started with this beast and what so special about them......

http://www.carborobot.co.uk/

Which led me to do a bit more research on "rotary grates" and the Lopper name showed up. If it's remotely possible can you take some pictures of it?

I have been scouring the net on ideas oh how to burn from dust to 1" chunks of junk wood without having to reprocess it into pellets. In fact, last night I was working on hogging concept that would turn my junk into chips at about a half a ton an hour with a 5hp motor. Unfortunately, most of the technology on how to burn it has been cornered by the Europeans and without CSA and/or UL, I can't use them because of insurance.

 

[TCaldwell]

Onfoot now that you have the parameters dialed in, I have a few questions. I have not heard you mention of a o2 setpoint that the boiler would try to maintain throughout a burn, only that a burn varies from 2 to 6%. Also on the second screen shot it shows a fan speed of 15.9% is this because the approx 185degf supply temp is nearing its high end, are there other factors that cause the fan to run less than 100%.
thanks tom

 

[Onfoot]

A late congrats on your purchase!

I was reading up on "rotary grates" and lo and behold, your thread showed up.

It started with this beast and what so special about them......

http://www.carborobot.co.uk/

Which led me to do a bit more research on "rotary grates" and the Lopper name showed up. If it's remotely possible can you take some pictures of it?

I have been scouring the net on ideas oh how to burn from dust to 1" chunks of junk wood without having to reprocess it into pellets. In fact, last night I was working on hogging concept that would turn my junk into chips at about a half a ton an hour with a 5hp motor. Unfortunately, most of the technology on how to burn it has been cornered by the Europeans and without CSA and/or UL, I can't use them because of insurance.

Sorry to be so long in replying, Spartan. I am not sure what you would like a photo of. I have attached a copy of the Lopper boiler brochure that explains and shows the honeycomb grates that form the bottom of the burn chamber. Perhaps that will provide what you are looking for? As for burning chips, the controls give the option of burning what they call 'coarse' (i.e., cordwood) or 'fine' (chips). Each has its own set of parameters about fan speeds, damper controls and etc. I have not tried burning chips yet, so cannot speak to that. The operating manual describes this as: "Choose “Coarse” for split logwood or similar piece sizes of wood fuel and “Fine” for wood fuel pieces that are chip-sized (10 cm x 10 cm x 10 cm) or smaller."

Happy to respond to further questions if I can.

Barrett

 

[Onfoot]

Onfoot now that you have the parameters dialed in, I have a few questions. I have not heard you mention of a o2 setpoint that the boiler would try to maintain throughout a burn, only that a burn varies from 2 to 6%. Also on the second screen shot it shows a fan speed of 15.9% is this because the approx 185degf supply temp is nearing its high end, are there other factors that cause the fan to run less than 100%.
thanks tom

Good questions, Tom. There is not an O2 set point. The adjustable parameters are fan speed minimums and maximums (for the Start, Burn A and Burn B stages of the burn cycle), primary and secondary damper minimums and maximums, various temperature set points (e.g., maximum for exhaust gas temps, and etc.) I do not know if the controls are adjusting anything (e.g., the dampers and/or fan) on the basis of O2 readings.

The fan plays a significant role in managing the burn cycle. For the mature Burn B cycle, I currently have its max. set at 32% and minimum set at 18%. Part of the fine tuning for me involved trying different fan speeds, narrowing the difference between minimum and maximum to keep flue temperature as close as possible to about 150C. (Affected by the average moisture content of my wood and the species of the wood.)

My maximum supply temp is set at 95C. If it hits that temperature, the fan would stop and the dampers would close.

Hope that is helpful.

Barrett

 

[Spartan]

Sorry to be so long in replying, Spartan. I am not sure what you would like a photo of. I have attached a copy of the Lopper boiler brochure that explains and shows the honeycomb grates that form the bottom of the burn chamber. Perhaps that will provide what you are looking for? As for burning chips, the controls give the option of burning what they call 'coarse' (i.e., cordwood) or 'fine' (chips). Each has its own set of parameters about fan speeds, damper controls and etc. I have not tried burning chips yet, so cannot speak to that. The operating manual describes this as: "Choose “Coarse” for split logwood or similar piece sizes of wood fuel and “Fine” for wood fuel pieces that are chip-sized (10 cm x 10 cm x 10 cm) or smaller."

Happy to respond to further questions if I can.

Barrett

Not much more then a curiosity on how it burns chips and how the grates work. From what I gather, it's not auger feeding them so I wondered how it burned what amounts to a boiler filled with very fine kindling.

Perhaps when you run some chips through it, let us know.

 

[TCaldwell]

Thanks Barrett, it seems that the p/s dampers objective is to control o2 and the fan speed to maintain a flue temp[ boiler output] within a given o2 range for different stages of the burn, and output reduction when reaching max storage temp. Sorry for the radio silence, life got busy for awhile.
tom

 

[ciri]

Hi Onfoot, your setup looks great. My parents recently got their hands on a drummer 45, and they're having problems with it...is there any chance you could send me a few pictures of inside the cleaning door...not sure if their firebricks are set up correctly.

I'd really appreciate it if you could find the time to do this.

Thanks,
Ciri

 

[Onfoot]

Hi Ciri. I will endeavour to take a photo this evening... FYI, after more than a year, I remain deeply impressed by the boiler. What kind of problems are your parents having?

Barrett

 

[ciri]

Thanks a million Barrett, that'd be great. The problem is that after starting the boiler it runs in 'START' mode for a while before slipping back to 'SP' mode, which according to the manual is a storage mode. It never goes to 'FIRE' mode.

Having gone through the manual, I'm pretty sure that it never gets to 'FIRE' because the flue temp never gets high enough..it runs for about an hour and only gets to about 90-100deg before going to 'SP'.

We did have a problem with the flue deflector not being installed correctly..must have shifted during transit. I think that's ok now, but that's why I would like a picture to compare.


Thanks again for your help,
Ciri

 

[Onfoot]

Apologies, Ciri. Started the fire tonight before remembering to take a photo. Will try to remember tomorrow morning!

 

[ciri]

Apologies, Ciri. Started the fire tonight before remembering to take a photo. Will try to remember tomorrow morning!

Not to worry,
Thanks Barrett.

 

[Onfoot]

Hi Ciri. Not sure how much it will help, but here is a photo of what is revealed when I open the side clean-out door. The problem you describe about the start mode not moving through to Burn A and then Burn B is difficult to respond to as I do not know the setup with heat storage, wood species, etc. With my boiler, I spent a couple of months fine-tuning all the parameters with the very patient help of the technical support from Lopper USA folks. Having said that, I am sure that your parents' issue is a combination of setting min and max fan speeds for the various burn stages, along with the flue temps. The Start phase needs to have a higher fan speed, typically, to ensure that the fire gets well and truly burning. Given the number of possible variations and configurations, I am reluctant to offer suggestions for any one parameter. From whom did your parents obtain the boiler? Is there not some technical support? If it was helpful, I would be happy to have a Skype conversation in front of my controls explaining my various settings. Happy to help in any way that I can.

 

[ciri]

Hi Barrett, thanks for your reply, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner but I didn't receive any email notification & thought that maybe you hadn't got around to taking the picture yet. Thanks a million for that!

We've had a bit of joy since..it turned out that a lot of the firebricks that make up the combustion chamber had moved quite a bit in transit...got them sorted now..we hope!

This was causing our problem as secondary combustion wasn't taking place & we weren't achieving high enough temps.

Since we rearranged the bricks, it's working well & moves from Burn A to Burn B without a problem. I'm still not convinced however that the firebricks are set up 100% correctly. The firebricks do not meet up completely to make the chamber completely airtight (aside from in/out vents). I'll send you a picture shortly to show you what I mean.

We bought the boiler from the lopper supplier in Ireland & so far they haven't been at all helpful..their 'lopper guy' has been ill, now he's back, but he has never installed this model

I really appreciate your help & will send on the picture shortly.

Thanks again,

Ciri

 

[ciri]

Hi Barrett, me again...just came across a german version of the manual online..this had a diagram of the correct setup for the combustion chamber ( wasn't in the english one we have). Have everything set up perfectly now...will get it lit tomorrow & see what happens!