LED lights

[stoveliker]

There is a math error here going mg to kg. The correct estimate is 2560 kg, or 2.5 tonnes of Hg per year in the US.

You are correct. I did 4 grams. Apologies.

A little googling suggests that coal combustion emissions was about 50 tonnes per year in 1998. Probably a third of that now due to less coal being used.

https://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs095-01/fs095-01.html

IIRC lighting was like 10% of electricity use back in the 1990's, so that suggests that the avoided coal emissions from switching incandescent to CFL would've been about 3 tons/yr assuming 40% efficiency. Comparable to their Hg content.

Conclusion: recycle your CFLs responsibly!

A regulatory webpage is here:

What EPA is Doing to Reduce Mercury Pollution, and Exposures to Mercury | US EPA

Learn about actions EPA, tribal and state agencies have taken to reduce mercury pollution and releases into the environment

www.epa.gov

This suggests Hg exposure regulation would avoid 11,000 premature deaths. If we assume that coal plants are half of total emissions (WAG) that means that 50 tonnes = 5000 premature deaths. and 2.5 tonnes (from not recycling CFLs) would cause 250 premature deaths per year.

-----

For NOx, the US figure is 171,000 premature deaths per year:

Communities of color suffer disproportionately higher pollution-related deaths

In the United States, premature death associated with exposure to nitrogen dioxide (NO2) pollution — a toxic gas emitted primarily by burning fossil fuels in cars, trucks and power plants — is more likely to impact people of color compared to the white population, a new Northwestern University...

news.northwestern.edu

Some more googling suggests that only one third of NOx emissions are from mobile sources, and 60% of those are light duty diesels. So that suggests that diesel light duty vehicles lead to about 25,000 premature deaths per year in the US. Versus ~35,000/year for crashes.

But hey, the towing capacity of gasoline trucks is just not all that.

For reasons like this ("only 250 deaths a year"), I have a box in my garage with used engine oil, CFLs (less and less), batteries, smoke detectors w/ radioactive elements, etc.

My point was this: I understand that all we do has a footprint. That not all footprint can be avoided. (I need some heat to stay warm in winter; that does involve CO2 and some smoke, even if less smoke than folks that burn wet wood in a less efficient stove).
This particular thing about Hg in CFLs is something that can be avoided with zero cost (doing it when going to the right place anyway), and near zero effort (unless my kids place the freaking box in the middle of where we walk in the garage #&(*%(($ ;p ).

The return on investment of "footprint/investment" is therefore near infinite, even if the footprint is small.

 

[woodgeek]

Agreed. But I didn't say 'only'. 250 is too many.

Good point about the ratio... the cost to recycle bulbs is near zero. Just do it.

But I still am dismayed by folks in this thread getting a LOT more worked up (in my perhaps incorrect reading) over smashing a few bulbs rather than recycling them properly, than they did with yet another Dieselgate.

I still don't think I can tell the 25,000 people that died prematurely due to light truck NOx emissions that its excusable because it would be too hard for me to tow my stuff around with a gas pickup.

 

[stoveliker]

I didn't follow (see) the dieselgate thread...
(I drive a tiny 2012 ice carnat 41 mpg...)

 

[peakbagger]

The thing that bugs me is a lot of mercury that is responsibly collected gets reprocessed and it somehow ends up in the third world being used to collect and concentrate gold from bootleg gold mines. The mercury clumps the gold up and then the resulting amalgam is burned off over an open flame and the mercury vapors go up in the atmosphere. I have read that mercury poisoning of these miners is pretty rampant.

The pulp mill I worked at had its own chlor alkali plan to make bleaching chemicals long ago. They had at one point a "cell house" the size of a large warehouse with large pools of mercury. Run Sodium Chloride in one end along with a bunch of electrical power and chlorine and caustic soda came out the other end. The process was shut down years ago but the buildings were still there when I first started working there. The mercury leaked out into the granite ledge under the plant which was located along a river across from the hydro station that supplied the power. The site has been cleaned up and mitgated twice and is now a superfund site. Guys in suits come by every so often and vacuum bits of mercury that come out of cracks in the rocks. My guess is that one site and several others in the region probably account for a lot of lightbulbs.

Atmospheric mercury emissions were a big issue from coal and on rare occasion some #6 or bunker C fuel oils. Coal plants were required to upgrade to mercury emission standards usually entailing the use of carbon or trona sorbents. They bind the mercury and of course become another waste stream to manage forever.

 

[Ashful]

Not for me, and I know Ashful wasn't referencing me in particular, but that is why I held onto those bulbs in Virginia (for now) because I didn't want to drive around hoping to find someone to take them. I'll just bring them back to NY when I can transport them safely and take them to the country transfer station next time I go there (they take bulbs of all types).

Interesting. I've only been to a transfer station once in my life, and it was when I was on a surveying crew 35 years ago, surveying the place for expansion. I'm sure there's an exception somewhere, but I can't think of anyone I know in my personal life, who would ever go to a transfer station or haul their own trash.

We have residential waste-hauling companies, that pick up our trash and take it away. With the exception of very rural or poor areas, I honestly thought this was normal all over the country.

The other factor I had in mind when making my "special trip" comment, is that fluorescent tubes fail so infrequently, that disposing of any one is indeed a special event for most homeowners. I have 40 T12 or T8 bulbs (can't even remember!) installed in my shop, four T12's in my gun room, and maybe another half dozen scattered in various closets around the house... maybe 50 tubes in all. I can't even remember the last time I had to replace one, but probably at least 10 years.

 

[gthomas785]

Interesting. I've only been to a transfer station once in my life, and it was when I was on a surveying crew 35 years ago, surveying the place for expansion. I'm sure there's an exception somewhere, but I can't think of anyone I know in my personal life, who would ever go to a transfer station or haul their own trash.

We have residential waste-hauling companies, that pick up our trash and take it away. With the exception of very rural or poor areas, I honestly thought this was normal all over the country.

It's very normal to bring your trash to the dump, many places do not have a pickup service.

 

[peakbagger]

You are missing out on rural New England tradition, dumps are pretty well replaced with regional landfills but most towns have transfer/recycling stations. Depending on the town, there also may be dump "store" where items that may have value to others are set aside, free for the picking. The standard joke/complaint is the spouse that brings home more stuff than they brought to the transfer station, this is usually referred to "dump picking". My town does trash and limited recycling pickup plus has a bulk transfer/recycling facility at the town garage. The small town next to me population 345 (not including seasonal owners) has a transfer/recycling station that is only open two times a week. The "antisocial" folks go Tuesday evenings but most go on Saturdays to "dump and donuts" where its a weekly social occasion where there is coffee pot and place to sit down and socialize. They also have a library of used books free for the taking and items and materials are set aside in a "store" for anyone to take home. The town also does pay per bag where special bags have to be purchased and any general waste to the landfill dumpster has to be in a special bag. There are also informal dump wardens that make sure that the "new" folks in town are putting only recyclables in the correct bin. They are part of regional landfill district which has its own large recyclable facility that can be accessed with free passes that the town hands out to residents. I think both the town and the regional facility will take fluorescents.

The town on the other side of me is a summer colony population 310 and lot of summer residents. They do a weekly trash and biweekly recycling pick up plus hand out passes to the regional bulky recycling facility. They do not have local recycling facility or a "store". No one in town minds if the summer folks bring their trash home with them as the pickups are during the week.

My town does both pick up and has local recycling facility but no "store" (much to my and others consternation) A local scrapyard buys the metals and his contract states he gets all or nothing. Our town is the regions tourist town along with Walmart, most business owners hire a private firm to haul to the landfill and the town looks the other way at the lack of recycling of those streams.

 

[gthomas785]

Yep, in the town where I grew up (SW NH) Tuesday 4-6 or Saturday 8-12 were your options for going to the transfer station. I should ask my dad but I believe it's the same now. It used to be a proper dump off a cliff but that was replaced by a dumpster w/compactor and the bins for sorting recyclables. They had a small table where you could swap stuff. I remember getting some nice Tonka toys there as a kid.

 

[stoveliker]

I believe Ashful is in Bucks county (?).
I googled and did not find a transfer station where one can bring chemical waste at any time.
They do have certain days (4 or 5 per year) where residents can bring chemical waste to certain places - that is admittedly inconvenient, as it likely requires a separate trip.

 

[woodgeek]

I believe Ashful is in Bucks county (?).
I googled and did not find a transfer station where one can bring chemical waste at any time.
They do have certain days (4 or 5 per year) where residents can bring chemical waste to certain places - that is admittedly inconvenient, as it likely requires a separate trip.

My township (Radnor) used to have these pickup/dropoff days for things like old paint, etc. But don't seem to have them anymore.

I have a LOT of old paint.

OK, I googled it and they have a number to call....

 

[Ashful]

Wow.... I had no idea. Around here, everyone has one or two nights per week we put our cans at the street, and the trash and recycling is gone by noon the next day. I'd bet very few have any idea where it even goes.

I can appreciate the "swap meet" nature of the transfer stations, we have "u-pick" type auto recycling yards, similar scenario. As to getting worthwhile items out of the trash, we'd sometimes notice folks who'd drive around on "trash night" (the night we put our cans at the curb) when I was growing up, and try to pick worthwhile items out of people's trash. But I think it was illegal around here, as it seems it would usually get reported and they'd be chased off. I always assumed this was to protect any personally-identifiable paperwork or other items that may be in one's cans, in the days before home office shredders were easily available.

 

[DBoon]

Well, I'll certainly take credit for redirecting this thread to a homage on dumps and transfer stations.

but I can't think of anyone I know in my personal life, who would ever go to a transfer station or haul their own trash.

I'll be sure to stop by and introduce myself next time I am traveling near Philadelphia! FWIW, garbage pickup costs maybe $40/month (not sure - just a guess) and a 40 gallon trash bag taken to the dump is $3, and all recycling is free to drop off. MAYBE I have one 40 gallon bag every month to take to the transfer station - it's a big savings and not inconvenient at all. I might feel differently if I had a young family with lots of kids.

 

[Pinesmoke]

We have "convenience stations" around that they compact and haul to the transfer station. They are manned by country inmates. You pull up and they empty you out.

We drive off the mountain, there is trash in the back of the Runner. Before moving we couldn't believe there was no pickup available but in reality it's no big deal and no monthly fee. Minor changes in lifestyle though. Empty beer cans are lighter than empty beer bottles.

There are a LOT of old school up here that have burn barrels for trash.

 

[stoveliker]

... and the fridges are in the valleys.
I've seen too much of that in rural parts of East TN, where people just dump it, let it slide downhill.

ANd pick up trucks that loose half the trash in them before they reach wherever they are going to.

 

[Pinesmoke]

... and the fridges are in the valleys.
I've seen too much of that in rural parts of East TN, where people just dump it, let it slide downhill.

ANd pick up trucks that loose half the trash in them before they reach wherever they are going to.

There is both of that but I can say there is a big dumpster for steel and appliances that is always brimming full. Around here a lot are making it to the dump. There is always a random bag of trash on the road, usually on Saturday morning.

 

[begreen]

Driving with an unsecured load is against the law in WA. If not covered, they add a $25 fine at the transfer station when one takes the load there.

 

[Pinesmoke]

Probably is here as well although I have seen some pretty sketchy pulls here.

 

[Eman85]

@Pinesmoke what county are you in, I'm in Hawkins? My county has manned "convenience centers" basically compactors that you heave your garbage in along with a large container for big junk and a box for metal. There are some bins for recycling but what is actually done with it is a mystery. There have been private trash pickup but what they actually do with the trash isn't known. Our previous county mayor told me the one guy picks it up and burns it. Many evenings I get to enjoy the lovely aroma of my neighbors burning trash while I relax on my porch, punctuated by the boom of exploding aerosol cans.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

For those that are unfamiliar with rural southern life

 

[DBoon]

If not covered, they add a $25 fine at the transfer station when one takes the load there.

In my county in New York State they will not let you enter the transfer station with an uncovered load.

 

[begreen]

Back on the topic of LEDs, one delightful advantage is that their power draw is low enough that they can be solar powered. This has been great for illuminating areas that don't have power. I got these units a while back and they have been great. They run at low power during the night and kick into bright illumination with a motion sensor. I like them a lot for illuminating the way to our greenhouse at night and at an entry gate that is shaded. The company mostly sells commercial LED lighting and this little light is built well.

1000 Lumen - Capella Series Solar flood light - Compact Adjustable Solar Wall Light - Quantity 1

www.ledlightexpert.com

 

[stoveliker]

Yes, I bought similar (lower quality, or cheaper.) solar units back in early 2018. I keep it dark (rather than low) but when a cat or larger walks by they get quite bright.
4 shining towards all corners of the home. Still going strong.
I've been thinking of getting one behind the wood shed in case I need to get wood in the winter dark.

 

[Ashful]

Back to this old thread again,. mainly because regular old indoor BR30 and BR40 bulbs are getting hard to find. But I'm also having a heck of a time finding warm white low-lumen bulbs in high CRI. Here's what I'm searching for:

BR40 short neck (pref. L = 5.22")
350~400 lumens (45W equiv.)
CRI > 90
Warm white (2600-2700K)

I don't think this bulb exists. I'd also take a BR30 short neck, or even consider a PAR38, although I think the beam on most PAR's is too narrow for downlighting from an 8' or 9' ceiling. I'd also take higher lumens (up to maybe 800 max), if that's what it took to find the other parameters.

But I won't budge on color temperature or CRI. I think finding high CRI in warm white is pretty difficult, or so it seems.

 

[stoveliker]

I've had much more luck in Germany finding high cri bulbs at <2800 K and lower output. I see many homes here with "dentist office lights" - bright blueish light. Ugly as hell imo. But cozy warm light is seemingly more of a European thing than a us thing - on average.

So I'd see if you can get them shipped in from Germany...

 

[Ashful]

I've had much more luck in Germany finding high cri bulbs at <2800 K and lower output. I see many homes here with "dentist office lights" - bright blueish light. Ugly as hell imo. But cozy warm light is seemingly more of a European thing than a us thing - on average.

So I'd see if you can get them shipped in from Germany...

Isn't Germany on 230VAC lighting, if I recall?

I have interest in switching 20 of these 6" cans from incandescent to LED, both for efficiency, and hopefully lifetime. My wife and kids tend to leave these 20 lights on all day and all night, I'm forever turning them off when I pass through, but then find them back on the next time I come around. It's the kitchen and great room, so usage is high, no matter what.

Some require a 10 foot ladder to reach, so I'd love to get something with longest possible life, not that I've actually ever seen longer life out of LED's vs. incandescent play out in reality. Also, burning 20 x 45W incandescent bulbs 8-12 hours per day has a way of increasing air conditioning usage. I bought incandescents with the highest efficiency I could find (370 lumens / 45 watts), but it's still like running a 900 watt heater in that space all afternoon and evening, in July.

I just can't seem to find bulbs that will work. I would even drop down to BR30 for the kitchen, the cans are really shallow, so a short-neck bulb is really needed to not protrude. I just don't want to see the back-metal of the can, if the bulb doesn't mostly fill the surround.

 

[stoveliker]

Yes, but some bulb there do work on 110 too.
At least they did 15 years ago when I got some...m