Job creation from a 1%er

[webbie]

Plenty of examples for anything and everything you want to "prove".

But how about the "job creators" explaining something simple to this high school dropout.

When I started working in 1972 in low wage TN, I made
$3.60 per hour at Manpower - a temp unskilled agency
$5 per hour as an unskilled laborer on a house construction site (carrying studs, cleaning up).

Those two figures equate to
$20. per hour
and
$28 per hour today....

Explain to me in a sentence or two why the same worker get's well less than 1/2 those amounts today. Go.

 

[ironpony]

one word, greed.
low wages, government subsidies to workers, corporations pocket profits, pay minimal taxes to support subsidies vicious cycle.

 

[webbie]

one word, greed.
low wages, government subsidies to workers, corporations pocket profits, pay minimal taxes to support subsidies vicious cycle.

Well, then, we are in agreement! Since greed will never subside, we need to set a floor in terms of how greedy folks can be.....

BTW, I never paid any employee anywhere near as low as min. wage. A starting wage (unskilled) at my retail store in the early 1990's was about 25K, which would equate to about 40K today. We also provided bonuses, profit sharing, some medical insurance, etc....and I made plenty for myself.

I never once asked myself "how little can I get away with paying them", so find it completely foreign that folks argue FOR not increasing the min. wage, etc.

Yes, I'd rather pay 82 cents for a taco instead of 79 cents to give the taco builder a slight break.

Frankly, if I made my living for those decades on the backs of folks low wages...as opposed to actually helping to support real families in real houses with real cars (paid for by wages I paid), I'd feel bad. But you can't legislate morality to a large degree which is why you legislate numbers (wages).

 

[Butcher]

I think it's called capitalism? You know, I got the money, I pay you to do your job to make a product or service that is marketable to the human race. You as a wage earner are required to show up for work, do your job. Buy a lunch box, punch in before your shift, punch out after and make a reasonable attempt to be productive. Not get to work and brag how you spent most of the time doing absolutely nothing at work but still got paid for it. The business owner on the other hand is the 1 that gets up early, deals with the customer, stays late and eventually has his nuts swinging in the wind when it comes to the money end of it. I think a lot of folks really don't understand how the chit works because they really don't care or are to entrenched in what the status quo tells them. You explain to me this. I have half a million dollar cash flow in a landscape business. That's not counting repairs or equipment costs or insurance or workmans comp or social security payments that have to be met by the employer or this new health care deal or dealing with workers that cant seem to keep a drivers license when driving a $50,000 company owned vehicle is a must not to mention the fact that its hard to find any body that wants to work since it so easy to get a government hand out any more. I am sorry but your reasoning is all messed up. I hope you don't like to eat at 1 of them stinking fast food places like McDonalds cuz if you do your 1 dollar happy meal will some day cost you about 20 bucks. That pimple faced kid who served you your meal will still not be on an even flow with the owner of the restaurant cuz that's just how it all works.
Unless of coarse you are all into socialism. Let me know how that works out for you.

 

[Warm_in_NH]

Why do so many people look at "the rich" as villains?

When did it suddenly become okay to pick out the person who isn't like most of the others and treat them differently?

In what world of logic does rewarding those who under achieve and punishing those who over achieve result in a long term sustainable model?

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me."

I've never lived in such a divided country, it's sad. The worst part, in my opinion, is most believe that their political party is the right one. I think we all need to open our eyes and look at all the fat cats in DC on both sides of the isle and the size of the machine that is dividing us.

First objective in taking over a civilization is to divide it. Our government is cutting us to pieces, be it on economic, social, or race issues, it's happening daily. Hmmmmm....

 

[ironpony]

all our employees have health insurance, to keep the premiums down we raised deductibles, in turn we cover the employees deductible thru a HSA. No employees no money to be made. We truly try to take good care of our workers, most other business owners we deal with say were nuts for doing so.

 

[jharkin]

Explain to me in a sentence or two why the same worker get's well less than 1/2 those amounts today. Go.

You know why they cant web, FoxNews hasn't given them the talking point yet. just give it time.......

 

[webbie]

You know why they cant web, FoxNews hasn't given them the talking point yet. just give it time.......

A couple lifetimes and things will be just fine.
I guess math, statistics and reality are thrown out the door when some folks try to make their point. Never mind that it cost less than a nickel extra on a 2 dollar item for Wal-Mart to give better health care and wages!
We have to scream that it will cost $25 for that $1.88 item to make our point, and then call anyone who disagrees with that a name!

No gray areas. If someone is willing to do a job for a penny or a scrap of food, it seems like some would applaud that.

Big News, Folks. The sky is not falling. You and I will pass onwards and people will still be debating, bs'ing and everything else....on their apple ipads, which at that point will be made by folks who probably make more than we do here!


I'll come back in 150 years and we'll see who is right.....

 

[Ktm300]

I think it's called capitalism? You know, I got the money, I pay you to do your job to make a product or service that is marketable to the human race. You as a wage earner are required to show up for work, do your job. Buy a lunch box, punch in before your shift, punch out after and make a reasonable attempt to be productive. Not get to work and brag how you spent most of the time doing absolutely nothing at work but still got paid for it. The business owner on the other hand is the 1 that gets up early, deals with the customer, stays late and eventually has his nuts swinging in the wind when it comes to the money end of it. I think a lot of folks really don't understand how the chit works because they really don't care or are to entrenched in what the status quo tells them. You explain to me this. I have half a million dollar cash flow in a landscape business. That's not counting repairs or equipment costs or insurance or workmans comp or social security payments that have to be met by the employer or this new health care deal or dealing with workers that cant seem to keep a drivers license when driving a $50,000 company owned vehicle is a must not to mention the fact that its hard to find any body that wants to work since it so easy to get a government hand out any more. I am sorry but your reasoning is all messed up. I hope you don't like to eat at 1 of them stinking fast food places like McDonalds cuz if you do your 1 dollar happy meal will some day cost you about 20 bucks. That pimple faced kid who served you your meal will still not be on an even flow with the owner of the restaurant cuz that's just how it all works.
Unless of coarse you are all into socialism. Let me know how that works out for you.

Well said. Fact of life: The fruit is always high in the tree and far out on the branch. The one with the biggest balls gets the fruit. Also the one that pays the most for failure. The one who takes the risk gets paid more. End of story. Nice flag!

 

[Warm_in_NH]

Big News, Folks. The sky is not falling. You and I will pass onwards and people will still be debating, bs'ing and everything else....on their apple ipads, which at that point will be made by folks who probably make more than we do here!


I'll come back in 150 years and we'll see who is right.....

True.......

 

[webbie]

I think it's called capitalism?

You explain to me this. I have half a million dollar cash flow in a landscape business. That's not counting repairs or equipment costs or insurance or workmans comp or social security payments that have to be met by the employer or this new health care deal or dealing with workers that cant seem to keep a drivers license when driving a $50,000 company owned vehicle is a must not to mention the fact that its hard to find any body that wants to work

Actually, this is slightly off-subject, but may answer some of your concerns. The landscape biz is ultra-competitive and folks are usually always willing to lose money to do the job for less and less. This drives down prices, wages and causes problems for employers. My dad and I studied it down in Florida (my dad works for SCORE - Service Corp of Retired Executives) and has quite a few landscape companies as clients. We came to the conclusion that they should simply exit the business. No hope.

May not be the case with you....but many trades (more and more) are being killed by the "low bidder" deal which includes low pay for employees.

Here's an interesting little test which was done. Lots of people on the web write stuff for money....much of it by the word or article. A test was set up to see how little people would work for. In other words, this site (and many others) work on "bid" basis.

It was found that workers in the USA were willing to work for less than most any country in the world (granted, this was probably english writing).....I forget the actual figure, but it was something ridiculous where the writer would make about 75 cents an hour.

I have to say - with all the "agendas", the simplest basic point gets lost. Does a good days work deserve decent pay? And, if so, why is the pay 1/2 of what it was in 1972?
I was in the mid-south!

People seem to have to dump on some "talking point du jour" as opposed to answering the simple question of why wages have been cut in 1/2 or more...for people who actually work? And while you are at it, how does Costco pay $20 an hour and more to retail employees and still have low prices?

Don't answer. Just think about it.

 

[razerface]

You know why they cant web, FoxNews hasn't given them the talking point yet. just give it time.......

Yea, that's why,,,,good god. Really?



One simple answer of why wages are not keeping up is " competition" from around the world.
Remember that global economy ya'll are so hip on? We'll, it's putting a lot of people out of jobs around here.

 

[razerface]

And while you are at it, how does Costco pay $20 an hour and more to retail employees and still have low prices?

Don't answer. Just think about it.

I must answer that just for info sake. It happens that my nephew works at costco. He makes a little over $13 hr. I will ask him if I can post his pay stub. According to conversations with him,,,,$20 is not what his average co worker makes. Starting pay is just over $11

 

[Butcher]

Actually, this is slightly off-subject, but may answer some of your concerns. The landscape biz is ultra-competitive and folks are usually always willing to lose money to do the job for less and less. This drives down prices, wages and causes problems for employers. My dad and I studied it down in Florida (my dad works for SCORE - Service Corp of Retired Executives) and has quite a few landscape companies as clients. We came to the conclusion that they should simply exit the business. No hope.

May not be the case with you....but many trades (more and more) are being killed by the "low bidder" deal which includes low pay for employees.

Here's an interesting little test which was done. Lots of people on the web write stuff for money....much of it by the word or article. A test was set up to see how little people would work for. In other words, this site (and many others) work on "bid" basis.

It was found that workers in the USA were willing to work for less than most any country in the world (granted, this was probably english writing).....I forget the actual figure, but it was something ridiculous where the writer would make about 75 cents an hour.

I have to say - with all the "agendas", the simplest basic point gets lost. Does a good days work deserve decent pay? And, if so, why is the pay 1/2 of what it was in 1972?
I was in the mid-south!

People seem to have to dump on some "talking point du jour" as opposed to answering the simple question of why wages have been cut in 1/2 or more...for people who actually work? And while you are at it, how does Costco pay $20 an hour and more to retail employees and still have low prices?

Don't answer. Just think about it.

Don't answer? Is this how it works? You are assuming that a study done by some one in a state over half a continent away has any bearing on how business is run here in the mid west? It may be the talking point du jour as you call it but it will and I am certain of this, impact the lives of every one that buys, sells, or barters to even exsist any more. Costco paying 20 bucks an hour? We have no Costco here in the Midwest in my area and if they were to be here and paying that kind of money per hour I would sell all my equipment and go to work as a Costco employee. I'm not making this argument as a political statement but as a purely economic point of view. I love a good debate and don't want to get out of hand and am always very interested in the other side of the debate. I am always listening. Seems as though some seem to want to close their minds and not have a respectable conversation on the issues. I'm a simple man and have nothing but a high school education and a common sense point of view so I am sure that some one smarter than me could prove me wrong but, well, so be it.

 

[jharkin]

So is this the 'nook... or the can ?

 

[razerface]

Costco paying 20 bucks an hour? We have no Costco here in the Midwest in my area and if they were to be here and paying that kind of money per hour I would sell all my equipment and go to work as a Costco employee.

Nephew says he thinks there are higher paid people there, but he is a stock boy, actually working. For sure everyone there is not making that money.

 

[Ashful]

When I started working in 1972 in low wage TN, I made
$3.60 per hour at Manpower - a temp unskilled agency
$5 per hour as an unskilled laborer on a house construction site (carrying studs, cleaning up).

Those two figures equate to
$20. per hour
and
$28 per hour today....

Explain to me in a sentence or two why the same worker get's well less than 1/2 those amounts today. Go.

Maybe you were grossly overpaid in 1972?

 

[begreen]

Don't think so. I was making $5 hr straight out of high school in 1966 in NYS.

 

[Frozen Canuck]

So is this the 'nook... or the can ?

How about the Canook?

 

[Frozen Canuck]

Well the back & forth makes for some interesting reading if nothing else.

One question for those who say they are self employed, hire employees & are basically talking about lowering wages…what type of margin do you operate on? I operate on a profit margin…i.e. the higher my costs the higher my potential profit margin or at least the total $ amount I expect as profit…so in other words I would be pleased to live in an economy where wages are climbing…why?, because my potential profit margin or total $ of profit climbs right along with those wages.

Think about it for a minute...do you have greater room for profit on employees that are making $100/hr or .01/hr? Even if your margins are equal as a % of wages, in this case how many more employees do you need to have at .01/hr rather than $100/hr to get the same $ in profit? Face facts an economy where there is upward pressure on wages is good for business & profits. I enjoy upward pressure on costs in our business as I know it will give me more opportunity for profit. I hope you understand that when you argue for lowering wages the expectation from customers is that your profits will come down right along with those lowering wages.

 

[razerface]

One question for those who say they are self employed, hire employees & are basically talking about lowering wages…what type of margin do you operate on?

Good Morning! Unless I missed a post,,,you will be the only answer i think,,,,you are the only one talking about lowering wages.

 

[webbie]

. Seems as though some seem to want to close their minds and not have a respectable conversation on the issues. I'm a simple man and have nothing but a high school education and a common sense point of view so I am sure that some one smarter than me could prove me wrong but, well, so be it.

I've read a lot about the economy in your neck of the woods. It seems that wages used to be much higher and folks could make a living even working in meat plants and ag.

Buyouts and mergers came in the 70's and wages were cut in 1/2. Sometimes in 1/3. It was done for "business and economic" reasons. It resulted in the destruction of many towns (societies) and an epidemic of meth which was unheard of among the good people there. It turned out that meth was the perfect drug for those working condition - now you could work 2 or 3 jobs (for less money) and, if you were smart, you could even make or sell some yourself.

Point is - actions have consequences. Paying people less does not just stand by itself. Like it or not, we are interdependent...and to some extent we rise and fall together. That's why places like VA and MA are called "commonwealths".

No one is suggesting to pay an employee as much as the Boss or CEO. But look at the charts and you will see that the CEO pay has gone up - in relation to employee/worker pay - by a factor of 10X (1000%).

I don't have the answers...but it's clear that greed is good to only a certain extent. Caring, compassion, education and inclusion are probably more important to the future success of our society....that is, if we end up succeeding. Current trends are somewhat disturbing.

As a separate fact, I always looked at my employees as the ones doing the hard work. I counted the money in the back room and stared at the charts on my wall. Did I tell you I love charts?

 

[Ehouse]

I have a friend who years ago was chauffeur to the late Averell Harriman, former gov. of NY, Railroad tycoon, etc.. He says Mr. Harriman in his dotage was fond of pronouncing ad infinitum/ad nauseum; "A man's worth one dollar an hour from the neck down!".

The wealthy have been allowed to rig the game of late to allow this arrogant conceit to approach reality.

The dynamic tension balance of collective bargaining where no one wins but everybody gains has been scuttled for a winner take all scenario focusing only on individual profit, to the detriment of the larger concept of our national economy.

It is only mildly socialist to say that the greater objective here is not profit but commerce.

 

[razerface]

He says Mr. Harriman in his dotage was fond of pronouncing ad infinitum/ad nauseum; "A man's worth one dollar an hour from the waist down!".

The wealthy have been allowed to rig the game of late to allow this arrogant conceit to approach reality.

I don't understand what you are getting at,,,but,,,I think the quote means that Mr Harriman valued the "thinking half" of a man more then the "physical half"

I think maybe you misunderstood the quote? Or did I?

 

[Frozen Canuck]

Unless I missed a post,,,you will be the only answer i think,,,,you are the only one talking about lowering wages.

Oh I think you may have missed just a few bemoaning the proposed increase in min wages for a start. Care to have a go at the question? What type of margin does your business operate on? Do you have increased potential for profit as your expenses & employees wages increase? If not, why not? For that matter why even continue if when your costs rise your potential profit does not?