Job creation from a 1%er

[razerface]

sounds like you did the same, kinda debunks your theory of employees not starting the company, or were you the rich kid with the silver spoon?

In general,,, hourly employees do not create jobs was my point. You can find exceptions to anything. If you started the company,,aren't you the owner, not the employee?

Most hourly employees are hourly, because they want to be. My own son refuses to enter my business other then as my employee, because he does not want the workload it requires. He prefers 10 hours and go home. I find nothing wrong with that, no matter what I wish for.



I quit my hourly job to start my company. I started my company with hard work. I sold everything I owned to finance it. Once I made money,,, I created more jobs and hired people to do them, at my company. The demand was already there,,, the jobs were not there until I created them. The demand was doing nothing,,,,

IF I was forced to pay my employees more money then they are worth, due to a change in the min wage law,,,, I would find a way to be more efficient, cut costs, do the same work with less people, and someone might loose their job. So the theory of "paying higher wages will stimulate the economy", will not work at my shop,,,and will have the same result at many others.

 

[bassJAM]

Honestly I don't think taxing the 1% more will hurt jobs much, if at all. They create jobs, but so does many in the middle class on their way to becoming the 1%. I do find it very wrong to basically steal a larger percentage of their money, just because it hurts them less. It's even more wrong to do so just because you think it's unfair that they make that much.

At the same time, it's wrong to force employers to pay low skilled workers more than they are worth. In no reality is a high school student worth $15/hour to take orders at a window and punch those in on a screen. And just because another person doing the exact same job is 40 with 3 kids at home, doesn't mean he/she deserves a higher pay because chances are either their intelligence level or work ethic is the reason they are doing a high schooler's job. Force McDonald's hand, and I guarantee you they'll pay their skilled workers (engineers) to figure out a way to automate the process, and some more smart people (marketing) a way to spin it so we are happy about interacting with a computer vs a person. Give it 5 years and it'll probably be way more accurate then a person too.

I just don't see why some people don't see that artificially creating higher wages is a really bad thing.

 

[Ashful]

It's said locally that every Boeing job creates 10 others. That's because a worker there buys things like cars, a home, insurance, tvs, haircuts, plumbing, landscaping, furniture, etc.

That may not hold true, if the price of cars, TV's, haircuts, and furniture is raised due to an increase in the minimum wage.

 

[begreen]

That's unfounded speculation. A burger flipper at McDonalds in Austrailia has made $16/hr. for a while now. Although their minimum wage is like what, twice here people are still buying. Cars and tvs don't cost much more either. Check it out.

http://www.holden.com.au

The $16 worker may not be "creating" jobs per se, but he is creating demand which in turn supports many jobs. Face it, if you are poor you cut hair at home to save $15-20. If you make a bit more, you go to the barber.

 

[Frozen Canuck]

You folks that seem to be arguing in favour of a race to the bottom need to take a trip to Bangladesh & see with your own eyes just how far down the bottom is.

Plenty of people there who would be thrilled to have a job at $1.50/day. Do you really want your nation to be competing in the race to the bottom when the bottom is that far down?

bassJAM: Burger flipping jobs pay $16/hr here & the help wanted sign is always out, every order contains a flyer with the message come work for us….please.

Guess it depends on your Zip code. Me I want to live in a high wage Zip code, as I have no interest in winning a race to the bottom.

 

[razerface]

That may not hold true, if the price of cars, TV's, haircuts, and furniture is raised due to an increase in the minimum wage.

It is not true now! If a person working at Boeing makes $75,000 per year,,,how does he take that 75 grand and spend enough to support 10 more jobs/people? $7,500 a year jobs? Plus the Boeing person saves some of his 75 grand for his own bank account,,,,so maybe the 10 jobs he creates are worth $5,000 each ?

 

[begreen]

200 Boeing workers living in pretty much the same community are a lot of haircuts. Jobs enough to support several barbers, bakers, bankers and baristas. If those people can have a decent living then they are spending too.

 

[razerface]

bassJAM: Burger flipping jobs pay $16/hr here & the help wanted sign is always out, every order contains a flyer with the message come work for us….please.

curious, what does a burger cost in Canada? I will have to stop at mcd'ees to see as I don't know what they cost here. Lets say a Whopper with cheese. Anybody know?

Here is what I find for min wage in Canada, but I have no idea if it is accurate

(broken link removed to http://www.expatfocus.com/expatriate-canada-salaries?gclid=CP7zv_vk-bwCFYY7Mgodsi8Alw)

Each province operates a minimum wage system and this applies to adult workers. The rates do vary across the country. At the current time, the province of Alberta has set the minimum wage at $8.80 per hour while in British Columbia it is $8.75. Manitoba has a rate of $9.50 and this is the same in New Brunswick. Newfoundland and the Northwest Territories are set at $10 per hour. In Nova Scotia and Quebec the rate is $9.65 per hour and Nunavut has the highest rate at $11 per hour. Yukon and Prince Edward Island both have rates at $9 per hour and Saskatchewan has a rate of $9.25 per hour. Finally, Ontario has a minimum wage of $10.25 per hour.

 

[razerface]

200 Boeing workers living in pretty much the same community are a lot of haircuts. Jobs enough to support several barbers, bakers, bankers and baristas. If those people can have a decent living then they are spending too.

yes, but the wording is that "each job creates 10 jobs",,,so you have to support 2000 barbers, bakers,ect. with the 200 Boeing workers. Dividing their paychecks by 2000 ,,,,just don't work! Of course some other people would also benifit and support those related jobs too.

I wonder if the saying got turned around over the years,,,maybe 10 Boeing jobs equal 1 "related" job

 

[begreen]

My bad, you are correct. I likely munged the wording of the original statement. Your wording is more accurate. Or perhaps one Boeing worker supports 10 related jobs? It still holds true and was frequently in the news with the 777X contract as the argument for making concessions to the big B to keep jobs in WA state. Job "creation" still occurs, but more like if those 200 Boeing workers want pizza in their neighborhood they could create 10 jobs in new pizza place. The job "support" of a well paid workforce the size of Boeing is enormous.

 

[bassJAM]

bassJAM: Burger flipping jobs pay $16/hr here & the help wanted sign is always out, every order contains a flyer with the message come work for us….please.

If Razerface's info is correct, than McDonalds is paying those wages on their own. Which is completely different than the government telling them to do so. And it sounds like they are only paying that much because people just don't want to flip burgers no matter how much they earn.

 

[Frozen Canuck]

razer: If I were to offer min wage for any position here with the family business I would hear…crickets. A totally meaningless number.

Burger fries & a drink $10. About the same as I pay in Orlando Fl or Kihei HI or Anaheim CA.

 

[BrotherBart]

This is funny to read. For 17 years every study has shown that small businesses destroy about the same number of jobs that they "create". Year in and year out.

If Razerface's info is correct, than McDonalds is paying those wages on their own. Which is completely different than the government telling them to do so. And it sounds like they are only paying that much because people just don't want to flip burgers no matter how much they earn.

BG said McDonald's in Australia. Where the govt. mandated minimum wage is $16.88 an hour.

 

[razerface]

razer: If I were to offer min wage for any position here with the family business I would hear…crickets. A totally meaningless number.

.

same here in places where economy is rolling,,,Texas, N Dakota, but not Ohio.

 

[razerface]

This is funny to read. For 17 years every study has shown that small businesses destroy about the same number of jobs that they "create". Year in and year out.


BG said McDonald's in Australia. Where the govt. mandated minimum wage is $16.88 an hour.

Frozen Canuck brought the mcdonalds wage in Canada back a few posts. (post 30)

Maybe the destroyed jobs are the failure rate of small business?

 

[BrotherBart]

Maybe the destroyed jobs are the failure rate of small business?

In fact they are. Every study for the last 17 years has proven beyond a doubt that year in and year out small businesses destroy the same number as they create. The net increase has been zero since the seventies.

 

[razerface]

In fact they are. Every study for the last 17 years has proven beyond a doubt that year in and year out small businesses destroy the same number as they create. The net increase has been zero since the seventies.

LOL,,,doesn't that take us full circle to the rich guys and large companies creating the jobs?

 

[BrotherBart]

No but it debunks the BS about making it easier to start a small business being a way to create jobs. But companies being the cause of job creation is bunk in and of itself.

When I started mine in 2000 by 2003 things had taken off and I was killing myself keeping up. My banker was on my butt to put on some employees. I told her I had been about as entertained by employees in my life as I cared to be.

 

[jatoxico]

LOL,,,doesn't that take us full circle to the rich guys and large companies creating the jobs?

Seems the rich guys are creating most of the jobs in other countries and their middle classes (such as they are) are growing.

 

[Frozen Canuck]

Seems the rich guys are creating most of the jobs in other countries and their middle classes (such as they are) are growing.

You mean like all the Scandic nations, throw in Germany & Austria & a few others. All of whom have opted out of the race to the bottom & most of whom who have protected their middle sized manufacturers (middle stein) in Germany IIRC. Leave out England, their in the same race to the bottom with predictable results.

 

[Frozen Canuck]

BB, not to poke a stick….but wasn't it about 17 years ago that we started to bring in laws, tax & otherwise, that favoured the really big co's at the expense of the smaller ones & employees? The dawn of the age of share holder being of more importance than company long term growth & health? Just curious but my old memory seems to think that's pretty close to when we started to go round the drain in a really aggressive fashion. What we are seeing & hearing now is just a symptom of circling that drain faster & more folks waking up to that fact.

 

[BrotherBart]

The dawn of the age of share holder being of more importance than company long term growth & health?

That was done singlehandedly in the eighties by Boone Pickens greenmailing officers and boards with the mantra of creating "shareholder value".

 

[Frozen Canuck]

Ahh yes Pickens, Goldsmith, Murdock et al.

 

[ironpony]

I am surprised no one brought this up, by raising the minimum wage they will raise salaries above the poverty line cutting federal subsidies.
They will create a whole new class of working poor, who in turn won't work so they can get free stuff.

 

[Frozen Canuck]

who in turn won't work so they can get free stuff.

I am just guessing but don't you have qualifiers south of 49 same as we do north of?

IOW the vast majority can't just stop working to get "free stuff". They have to qualify for assistance. Gotta be some really good "free stuff" to justify giving up a job to get it!