Is our EPA short-sighted WRT appliance requirements?

[EbS-P]

Why not have it repaired under warranty and move it to the basement? Then you have an extra fridge to plug in when it’s needed.

I have a 1927 or 28 monitor top in my basement and a 50s Kelvinator that I plug in when we go apple picking or are prepping sides for Thanksgiving, etc.

It’s a kegerator/2nd fridge freezer. The connection from the Aluminum evaporators to the copper lines is the normal failure mode. Compressors last on average 13 years. This monster can hold 3-5 gallon kegs and a restaurant dough box while having space for lots more food leftovers and drinks plus a big freezer drawer. It’s not worth spend more than 500$ on. My first kegerator that we got from the side of the road probably that was at least 20 years old when I got it 20 years ago would probably still be working. This unit has 160 grams or 5.2 oz of 124a and a variable speed compressor. But the fridge hole is really tight. Scrapes on sides and only .5” to top. Ie won’t meet install guidelines for any new either so warranties may be voided.

this failure was not compressor related. This was a design choice failure. I could put some die in but didn’t buy any. I have leak detection bubbles. I have been looking for an excuse to get a set of manifold gauges and a vacuum pump. But don’t think this is it. I don’t recall like the idea of sawing a hole in a new fridge. Kiss that warranty goodbye. So it would probably mean swapping my 2009 kitchen aid main fridge out for a new one and sawing a hole

 

[Ashful]

...is this thread insinuating that more efficient appliances means they are less durable?

Not at all. When I mention the EPA in the thread title, it's not with reference to efficiency targets, but with reference to the amount of refrigerant that newer refrigerators carry. It is the requirements for reduction in total refrigerant that have directly lead to the short lives of modern refrigerators. I have been told this by more than one commercial/industrial HVAC technician, as well as a consumer refrigerator repair technician.

I'm 100% sure the issue is planned obsolescence, not increases in efficiency.

No, it's not planned obsolescence, that is a myth. NO manufacturer wants planned obsolescence, since it is very well known that a premature failure of their brand will put you off ever buying their brand again. It is a combination of price wars, trying to keep costs as low as absolutely possible, and (in the case of refrigerators) mandates on the amount of refrigerant used in the system.

Why not have it repaired under warranty and move it to the basement?

I actually did this two refrigerators ago, ca.2013 or 2015. It was a nearly new unit in our kitchen with a compressor failure, and the manufacturer sent someone out to install a new compressor. Unfortunately, it took something like two weeks for them to get the parts and do the job, so I had already installed a new refrigerator by then. I sold the old one on Craigslist, but honestly, it just wasn't worth the hassle.

I don't want or need another refrigerator taking up space in our basement, just to plug in for occasions when our almost-new kitchen refrigerator dies prematurely. We already have six refrigerators in this house, but none are located close enough to the kitchen (large house) or empty enough to really be useful or practical to use for a week or two while waiting on a repair.

I have a 1927 or 28 monitor top in my basement and a 50s Kelvinator that I plug in when we go apple picking or are prepping sides for Thanksgiving, etc.

That's really cool. My mom had a 1953 GE refrigerator in the garage of her last house, and now our early-1980's refrigerator in the garage of her current house. Both will easily outlast my next eight or ten kitchen refrigerators, hence the thread title!

 

[weee123]

The refrigerant in hvac system has oil in it to lube the compressor so with less in it the more likely they are to fail. Not sure if refrigerators are the same, butI would assume they are.

 

[EbS-P]

Its life has been extended by at least 8 hours How many more does it have is the 150$ question (service fee plus parts and refrigerant). I may have overcharged it a bit. But not more than 20%. I didn’t weight the can full. So it’s really just a guess.

 

[blades]

in my previous home, had a fridge, do not remember brand name that was from my folks. I grew up with that unit. I left it at that home when I moved that was in 2017. I did find a birthday pic of my sister, fridge in background the date on pic was 1952. yes the unit was still working it was set into part of the wall in the basement making up a bar area of a rec room down there. 65 years old. never replaced compressor, bunch of door gaskets over the years.

 

[Ashful]

65 years old. never replaced compressor, bunch of door gaskets over the years.

Exactly. And these can be found all over the place. They were replaced because of rust, or being outdated, etc. But their mean time to failure must've been something like 25x our modern tech.

 

[EbS-P]

Its life has been extended by at least 8 hours How many more does it have is the 150$ question (service fee plus parts and refrigerant). I may have overcharged it a bit. But not more than 20%. I didn’t weight the can full. So it’s really just a guess.

View attachment 315733

Running 10 days now. If a new fridge costs at least $1500 and last 10 years? I need it run a year for my investment to break even. I’m not betting anymore money on that.

 

[EbS-P]

Running 10 days now. If a new fridge costs at least $1500 and last 10 years? I need it run a year for my investment to break even. I’m not betting anymore money on that.

And it’s dead. It’s not a slow refrigerant leak. Time to send to the curb.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Well that sucks. It’s too bad there’s nothing that can be done with a dead fridge.

 

[Ashful]

Well that sucks. It’s too bad there’s nothing that can be done with a dead fridge.

Redneck lawn planter?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

That’s a nice mural! Lol. If they put a mosaic on the side does it become classy?

 

[EbS-P]

Couple pounds of tannerite and an empty field would make me feel better.

Well that sucks. It’s too bad there’s nothing that can be done with a dead fridge.

 

[brenndatomu]

Couple pounds of tannerite and an empty field would make me feel better.

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[EbS-P]

We decided to get a new fridge for the kitchen. Had to be under 71.5 inches and counter depth. Can’t say it’s amazing but it was priced well and it fit the hole. Kegerator will bee a keezer in the basement with bev lines down through the floor. Next owners will wonder what that hole was for.

Its uses propane refrigerant.
(broken link removed)

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Please tell me disposal of the old one involved tannerite?

 

[EbS-P]

Please tell me disposal of the old one involved tannerite?

If only…. Called city for free pickup and the scrappers had in less than an hour.

 

[maple1]

Resurrecting this one. We are now on the hunt for a new fridge. Wasted a whole fine Saturday going store to store yesterday. It will be the first of our original circa 1996 Kenmore appliances to be replaced. Anybody have more to add? Mainly on good/bad brands. Reading has me thinking Whirlpool/Maytag could be iffy. GE & Frigidaire might be OK. Always considered Samsung & LG iffy also - but are they really?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

My Frigidaire Gallery appliances have been flawless since 2009, but as with everything, changes in materials, workers, etc happen. My appliances are almost 15 years old. I don’t know if Frigidaire appliances are still the same quality.

I think there are some constants that you’d find across brands though. If the feature isn’t there it can’t break. My refrigerator doesn’t have an ice maker. That can’t break. There’s no spot to fill cups with water. No WiFi….

I did watch a video about a specific type of compressor that was failing across brands but was still being used because it was a little more energy efficient. But I have to say I didn’t pay a whole bunch of attention to it. The video was about LG products and how some of their refrigerators had this style compressor while others didn’t.

 

[stoveliker]

Miele is pricey but a solid quality.

 

[EbS-P]

I think there are some constants that you’d find across brands though. If the feature isn’t there it can’t break. My refrigerator doesn’t have an ice maker. That can’t break. There’s no spot to fill cups with water. No WiFi….

This….. I just got a 4 door GE in December. No external coils. Ice maker in freezer with bin. Nothing in the door. Costso deal with extended warranty it was $1500 US. It’s not great but it for the hole I had. Price was reasonable. I didn’t check consumer reports. Probably should have.

 

[ABMax24]

I did watch a video about a specific type of compressor that was failing across brands but was still being used because it was a little more energy efficient. But I have to say I didn’t pay a whole bunch of attention to it. The video was about LG products and how some of their refrigerators had this style compressor while others didn’t.

We have that compressor in our Fridge, it the LG Linear Compressor. So far we haven't had any issues with it and our fridge is 7.5 years old now. I've seen the videos/lawsuits as well. Hopefully we got a good one.

Couldn't say if it's more efficient though.

 

[sloeffle]

I have a Kitchen Aid ( Whirlpool now ) refrigerator with Frigidaire parts on it this has been running without any issues for the last 5 or 6 years. Before that it was total POS, the initial one they delivered wouldn't even turn on.

I have a Frigidaire freezer in the basement that has ran flawless for the last 10 or so years.

 

[stoveliker]

I think a lot of longevity cases depend on usage conditions.

Does the fridge/freezer open every 10 minutes? Is ice taken every half hour? Or is the fridge opened 4 times a day and ice taken twice on weekends.
Is the heat shedding properly met? Cleaned coils?
Does the floor vibrate a lot?
Is the ambient temp between 65 and 75 or does it run from 45 to 85?
Is the power clean? (See ashfuls led issues) Is the water pressure within the specced range?

Yes a feature you don't have won't break (which is why I have a $2000 Italian espresso machine, all metal, and it can only make espresso and has a steam wand, two buttons and two led indicators. No led screens, no frills. Given my wife's coffee addiction and her Starbucks runs before this I think it's 5 years of life have already been paid back twice... ;-) )

Yes, design and parts materials (plastic...) matter. But surely not the only thing. Nature (genes, design) vs nurture (conditions). But likely of similar magnitude importance.

Etc etc.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

We have that compressor in our Fridge, it the LG Linear Compressor. So far we haven't had any issues with it and our fridge is 7.5 years old now. I've seen the videos/lawsuits as well. Hopefully we got a good one.

Couldn't say if it's more efficient though.

That’s it! Google AI says linear compressors are more efficient and quieter. 20-30% efficiency increase isn’t peanuts. I hope they can sort that issue out!

 

[stoveliker]

Although for 400 kWh per year (again depending on usage...) for a standard residential refrigerator, 80-130 kWh per year less means a savings per month of 10 kWh... Not zero but likely hard to notice...