Is our EPA short-sighted WRT appliance requirements?

[begreen]

The first thing I check on after going to the Energy Star list is the appliance reliability reports. This takes some research but pays off. Our GE fridge is 12 yrs old with no service other than filter and light bulb changes.

 

[semipro]

The first thing I check on after going to the Energy Star list is the appliance reliability reports. This takes some research but pays off. Our GE fridge is 12 yrs old with no service other than filter and light bulb changes.

Better clean that condenser coil.

 

[woodgeek]

I don't think that's possible, as the refrigerant is still inside of that 40 year old refrigerator, it's not in the atmosphere. When the thing reaches end of life, perhaps after 50 years, the refrigerant will be reclaimed, not released to the atmosphere. Only in the rare occasion of a gross leak is any appreciable amount of this refrigerant ever released to the atmosphere, given modern regulations, as it's impossible to get your trash company to pick up said old refrigerator without a tag showing the refrigerant had been reclaimed.

I know that in even ideal circumstances, some is always lost, either thru slow leaks or during the reclamation process. Heck, illegal dumping probably contributes, but I'd suspect that less than 1% of the refrigerators produced today ever see an illegal dump.

When the ratio of lifespan is literally 10:1, I do have to wonder which is the greater evil. We're not talking about a 20% or 50% change in typical lifespan and trashed units, but perhaps 1000%.

My Puron HP compressor from 2010 needed to be replaced in 2016, and the hill-william installer I had do it did NOT reclaim the puron. They just vented it. I did not see any vacuum pump among their equipment, and I smelled refrigerant when I went out to check on them.

The new compressor had a leak, and they dumped the load in there at least one more time while they fixed it.

This is shameful to me. For the AGW potential, close to several tons of CO2, but for a decade or two.

I assume that they are the norm, and HVAC folk that reclaim the refrigerant are the exception in our area.

 

[Ashful]

The first thing I check on after going to the Energy Star list is the appliance reliability reports. This takes some research but pays off. Our GE fridge is 12 yrs old with no service other than filter and light bulb changes.

I’d like to do the same, but when there’s literally only one option in stock that fits your opening, that pretty much eliminates shopping on other factors.

In all fairness, if I weren’t in the middle of another larger project, I’d have probably torn it apart and debugged myself. Just didn’t have the free hours, this time.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Frigidaire offers a 10 year warranty. Our fridge has been happily running since 09. I unplug it every once in a while to thaw it out. When I get the hankering to wash the floor under it I also vacuum out the dog hair. It’s been a pretty trouble free device.

I can’t say the same about clothes washers. I just had a speed queen installed in the basement today.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Screenshot…

 

[blades]

got one of those HE washers about 8 years ago, barely made to the end of the primary warranty. The hall effect circuit went south - it is in the field windings , not considered the motor so much for that 10 year motor warranty. solid state electronic units vs the grid best have a heck of line filter system installed on the input to your breaker cabinet. the sine wave from the power co. looks like a picture of the rocky Mountain skyline. So much for clean energy. Spent 30 years on the repair side of industrial controls - plenty of horror stories concerning grid power. Bad thing most manf. do not or will not step up and put decent power supply circuits in the equipment, consumer units are worse than industrial. Bean counters are the bane of engineers. In the olden days vacuum tube units would just shrug the crud off but solid state is very sensitive to it as the imperfections of line cause heat problems in the devices leading to failure.
Course I am just the dumb schmuck that has to fix it, so what do I know.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Got 5 years out of the last washer. The control board died during Covid. Finally got a new one in after the warranty expired. Then it died again.

 

[Ashful]

I wonder what volumetric fraction of each of these countless failed appliances ends up in a landfill. Surely all of the plastics and hoses. Not sure how much if the wiring and chassis get recycled.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I bet most of it gets sold to the metal recycler as tin.

I bet the workers end each day at the scrap yard and get to split the cash. It’d be a little bonus to the guys and the appliance shop doesn’t have to deal with it.

Our scrap waits until rainy days when we can’t do roof work, but appliance guys probably don’t have rain days.

 

[brenndatomu]

My inlaws had an appliance guy out to look at their 5 YO Frigidaire side x side fridge/freezer just yesterday...the guy said he had been doing this work for 40 years now...he also told them the reason that their fridge and freezer was suddenly not staying cold was that that there must be a leak and it's now low on freon...needed a new compressor and a recharge, but he doesn't do that anymore.
The whole thing smelled a little funny to me when I found out that the only thing he did to it was to defrost the coil...hmmm.
So I went over to look at it last night and when I pulled the front cover off the whole coil was covered in about an inch of dust bunny/pug hair...I vac'd things up and it seemed to be off to the races when plugged back in...they said they didn't think it had been cleaned before...I guess 5 years without a cleaning is a pretty good run! Haven't heard yet about the results...I bet its fine though.

Update to ^ ^ ^, cleaning the coil did nothing...that night it went from cooling poorly (even the fridge side was too warm) to no cooling at all. New Whirlpool French door was delivered today...1 yr warranty with 3 yr add on coverage for 90 some dollars more.
When I got to work this morning the break room was 80*...easy fix though, bad capacitor.
Got home tonight and noticed the deep freeze was up to 19*...dunno what its problem is yet!
Ugh!

 

[woodgeek]

I wonder what volumetric fraction of each of these countless failed appliances ends up in a landfill. Surely all of the plastics and hoses. Not sure how much if the wiring and chassis get recycled.

I have yet to see any evidence that we are running out of landfill space on this planet.

 

[SpaceBus]

I have yet to see any evidence that we are running out of landfill space on this planet.

Maybe not, but landfills are in general not great. They release greenhouse gasses, leach toxic chemicals, and are a waste of space.

 

[begreen]

I have yet to see any evidence that we are running out of landfill space on this planet.

Appliances are not landfilled locally. There is a drop-off for metals recycling. It's free unless the item has freon, then there is a $10 charge.

 

[begreen]

Got 5 years out of the last washer. The control board died during Covid. Finally got a new one in after the warranty expired. Then it died again.

Our HE washer is going on 12 yrs now. It's been a good performer with no issues. It's made by Electrolux Sweden and sold under the Frigidaire label.

 

[Ashful]

It's free unless the item has freon, then there is a $10 charge.

That's not bad. I'd be willing to pay 3x that amount to save my Saturday morning, if they'd just pick it up at my curb.

 

[gthomas785]

I have yet to see any evidence that we are running out of landfill space on this planet.

The landfill will be just fine... it's all the wasted raw material and the energy that went into producing the object being wasted that is the problem.

 

[SpaceBus]

The landfill will be just fine... it's all the wasted raw material and the energy that went into producing the object being wasted that is the problem.

Along with all of the leeching and other issues.

 

[EbS-P]

My 10 year old Samsung refrigerator quit cooling last month. It was a dog from year 2 requiring lots of maintenance. I called for a service visit hoping it was something simple. It’s a huge 30+ cu ft fridge. $112 to diagnose it needs all the evaporators replaced to the tune of $1200. How big a leak is it. I have a can 124a and we will find out!

 

[blades]

in response to the orginial question. water heaters generally there is a good better best thing warranty wise same unit just pay more for longer warranty- labor and service is the killer on mfg warranties.

 

[Ashful]

I've come to the conclusion that the trouble with a warranty is that I'm not going to be without a kitchen refrigerator or water heater for more than a few hours, let alone days, or the week our local warranty provider offered to send someone out for diagnosis. Unless they can be there same-day, and have parts to execute a repair same or next day, it's likely that refrigerator or water heater is going in the trash, even if it is under warranty.

A longer warranty isn't worthless, it's still an indicator of the manufacturer's expectation of mean time to failure. However, I won't be the one waiting on warranty service, for any appliance as critical as a primary refrigerator or water heater. Just not worth it, when I can usually have a new one installed within a few hours or a day, and get back to life as normal. Heck, if there's a chance of saving a few hundred dollars worth of refrigerated and frozen foods, that alone can pay the majority of the cost of a new appliance.

 

[SpaceBus]

I've come to the conclusion that the trouble with a warranty is that I'm not going to be without a kitchen refrigerator or water heater for more than a few hours, let alone days, or the week our local warranty provider offered to send someone out for diagnosis. Unless they can be there same-day, and have parts to execute a repair same or next day, it's likely that refrigerator or water heater is going in the trash, even if it is under warranty.

A longer warranty isn't worthless, it's still an indicator of the manufacturer's expectation of mean time to failure. However, I won't be the one waiting on warranty service, for any appliance as critical as a primary refrigerator or water heater. Just not worth it, when I can usually have a new one installed within a few hours or a day, and get back to life as normal. Heck, if there's a chance of saving a few hundred dollars worth of refrigerated and frozen foods, that alone can pay the majority of the cost of a new appliance.

I couldn't imagine losing all of the food in my fridge or a freezer, half of which was produced by us.

This is not just directed at you, Ashful, just a general ramble. It's been a while since I've checked in on the forum, but is this thread insinuating that more efficient appliances means they are less durable? I'm 100% sure the issue is planned obsolescence, not increases in efficiency. The Instant Pot company went out of business because their product was too durable and once the market was saturated there was no more demand. If every household only needs to buy a fridge, washing machine, etc. every 50 years, how can those poor appliance MFGs stay in business? The issue with appliances is our economic system that requires constant growth, not improvements in efficiency. The same can be said about most products in most sectors, except for combustion engine vehicles/equipment. Instead of needing to be replaced constantly the MFGs are trying to lock everyone out of maintenance and repairs.

 

[weee123]

It’s a real shame that they don’t build things to last. Just so you can spend more money on a new one. I have a standup freezer in my pole barn from the early 80s that’s still chugging along keeping things icy cold from my grandmom’s house. My parents still have the original fridge from when their house was built 30 years ago in the garage, and their original drier as well. Although they have gone through 2 dish washer failures. Can’t remember if the washer died or was just replaced for a bigger unit.

I prefer to pay more for something that will actually last me and not need anything or very minimal maintenance to stand the test of time. Unfortunately it seems most things aren’t built that way anymore.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Why not have it repaired under warranty and move it to the basement? Then you have an extra fridge to plug in when it’s needed.

I have a 1927 or 28 monitor top in my basement and a 50s Kelvinator that I plug in when we go apple picking or are prepping sides for Thanksgiving, etc.

 

[SpaceBus]

It’s a real shame that they don’t build things to last. Just so you can spend more money on a new one. I have a standup freezer in my pole barn from the early 80s that’s still chugging along keeping things icy cold from my grandmom’s house. My parents still have the original fridge from when their house was built 30 years ago in the garage, and their original drier as well. Although they have gone through 2 dish washer failures. Can’t remember if the washer died or was just replaced for a bigger unit.

I prefer to pay more for something that will actually last me and not need anything or very minimal maintenance to stand the test of time. Unfortunately it seems most things aren’t built that way anymore.

While you were replying I actually edited my post to include many more thoughts, most of which you share. I think most people would rather "buy once and cry once" for the majority of their purchases. Instead it's like we are on a constant subscription type service for everything we use.