How to keep it going 24/7

[mnowaczyk]

I am always confused when people complain about too many coals. Reading through this I think I finally figured it out, there's got to either be not enough air or the wood is too wet to burn all the way down. I only get black charcoal in my stove when I have a single large log (not a split) that charcoals around the outside not getting enough heat to the core, or the split is too wet. Generally I aim to get as many coals in my stove as possible because that is serious heat. Red coals on red coals is pure heat for me. When they are air starved by ashes, they stop burning (or if they are wet).

So I think the main problem is your wood is wet.

I have found that when the temps are about to drop to 400 F on the stove face (above the doors) it is time to reload. My manual says to aim for stove temps in that location between 400 and 800 F. It's a thick all cast old stove. Conveniently it has a thermostatically controlled air intake that automatically dampers down when the stove gets hot. I find myself keeping the air intake as wide open as possible at almost all times. I can see it isn't wide open (even sometimes fully shut) when it gets really hot (700+).

Now what do I do if I'm having a hard time getting temps up and I have a bet of charcoal?
1) clean out the ash pan (into a metal ash can I keep outside)
2) load something combustible and dry on the coals (not another wet split)
3) open the draft wide open for max air flow.
4) if I have to, shut the air intake and doors and force the air to come into the stove via the (emptied) open ash tray above the ash pan. This gets lots of air on the coals and runs the air and flames to the combustible wood on top. If I can get it got enough, and it gets going, I will even shut damper that forces the exhaust through the afterburner. The problem with letting air in through the ash pan is that it burns down the coals really fast, and doesn't make a sustainable fire. You need hot coals for a long sustainable fire.

How hot is the stove when you come down in the morning? If below 300 F, in my opinion, you don't really still have a fire going, just coals that can be handy to start a new fire.

I have found that it is best to season my own wood and never trust anyone who tells you the wood they are delivering is seasoned. I like to season it for at least one full summer, ideally longer. I am burning the black locust that was cut down this past spring, but locust seems to be dry enough to burn when it is first cut even. It burns long and hot.

These are my coals, and it's been nothing but coals for about an hour, but it is just now getting down to 400 F on the left side. So it is time to throw in another full load.

 

[mnowaczyk]

Just a few minutes later?

I can't understand complaining about coals. I love them!

 

[oldspark]

I am always confused when people complain about too many coals

Did you read my quote about these non cat EPA stoves are known for doing just that, when it gets below 0 I get too many coals trying to keep the house warm and my wood is dry.

 

[oldspark]

I am burning the black locust that was cut down this past spring, but locust seems to be dry enough to burn when it is first cut even

Not a chance.

 

[AnalogKid]

I have been burning 24/7 now for a few weeks. I burn 2 full loads a day. In the morning, stir the coals up and break up any fat ones, pull the pile forward. Pack a full load of wood north-south in the fire box on top of the hot coals and leave door cracked. Get it rolling, close the door. Bring the stove up to about 700 degrees while gradually scaling the air back until its all the way down, and let it ride.

Wait 12 hours and repeat.

 

[dyerkutn]

Bring the stove up to about 700 degrees

So I am always confused when people mention temps because there are so many possibilities--could be a cat thermometer, or an external magnetic on a single or double wall pipe, or on the stove or in IR. When people mention temps to help give info or advice sometimes it is not clear.

The reason I mention it is this--now that it is so cold I have been experimenting with putting in more wood in my T5 either for more heat or longer burns. I have a magnetic pipe thermometer which I have about 18 inches up. I know they are not precise but I think for my purpose close enough. So this morning it was 15 degrees outside, I had a roaring hot bed of coals but the pipe temp was in the yellow--about 150--and the house was still tolerable from the overnight burn. I opened up the air all the way, raked the coals flat and let it sit a a few minutes -I put 3 very small pieces just to get a flame up, then two 3-inch splits and 2 maybe 5-inch on top of that. It flamed right up and shot to 700 in the red zone . I could hear crackling in the pipe and it kind of had that new stove smell. It stayed there for maybe 15 minutes and I was going out but waited till it came down to the top of the orange about 525 which required a couple of adjustments to cut the air. So many people here say that they load up their stove for a long burn, or for overnight, but even when I have much smaller mostly ashy coals if I load more wood than mentioned above it shoots right up. I probably shouldn't complain because the stove seems very efficient and the wood is clearly very dry because even large splits flame right up. And I can generally keep the house comfortable. But it still puzzles me how other people can load their stoves so much fuller. Any thoughts?

 

[AnalogKid]

So I am always confused when people mention temps because there are so many possibilities--could be a cat thermometer, or an external magnetic on a single or double wall pipe, or on the stove or in IR. When people mention temps to help give info or advice sometimes it is not clear.

Fair point. I was referring to stove top temp, magnetic thermometer.

 

[dyerkutn]

Fair point. I was referring to stove top temp, magnetic thermometer.

So 700 on the pipe must be way hotter than 700 on the stove. And is that Fahrenheit.

 

[Spinny]

I am always confused when people complain about too many coals. Reading through this I think I finally figured it out, there's got to either be not enough air or the wood is too wet to burn all the way down. I only get black charcoal in my stove when I have a single large log (not a split) that charcoals around the outside not getting enough heat to the core, or the split is too wet. Generally I aim to get as many coals in my stove as possible because that is serious heat. Red coals on red coals is pure heat for me. When they are air starved by ashes, they stop burning (or if they are wet).

So I think the main problem is your wood is wet.

I have found that when the temps are about to drop to 400 F on the stove face (above the doors) it is time to reload. My manual says to aim for stove temps in that location between 400 and 800 F. It's a thick all cast old stove. Conveniently it has a thermostatically controlled air intake that automatically dampers down when the stove gets hot. I find myself keeping the air intake as wide open as possible at almost all times. I can see it isn't wide open (even sometimes fully shut) when it gets really hot (700+).

Now what do I do if I'm having a hard time getting temps up and I have a bet of charcoal?
1) clean out the ash pan (into a metal ash can I keep outside)
2) load something combustible and dry on the coals (not another wet split)
3) open the draft wide open for max air flow.
4) if I have to, shut the air intake and doors and force the air to come into the stove via the (emptied) open ash tray above the ash pan. This gets lots of air on the coals and runs the air and flames to the combustible wood on top. If I can get it got enough, and it gets going, I will even shut damper that forces the exhaust through the afterburner. The problem with letting air in through the ash pan is that it burns down the coals really fast, and doesn't make a sustainable fire. You need hot coals for a long sustainable fire.

How hot is the stove when you come down in the morning? If below 300 F, in my opinion, you don't really still have a fire going, just coals that can be handy to start a new fire.

I have found that it is best to season my own wood and never trust anyone who tells you the wood they are delivering is seasoned. I like to season it for at least one full summer, ideally longer. I am burning the black locust that was cut down this past spring, but locust seems to be dry enough to burn when it is first cut even. It burns long and hot.

These are my coals, and it's been nothing but coals for about an hour, but it is just now getting down to 400 F on the left side. So it is time to throw in another full load.

+1. I think wet wood is also a culprit. I am burning 1 year old honey locust currently. It coals up really bad. Much worse that ash. And no its not as dry as I'd like it to be. I think the wetness and the wood species may be to blame.

 

[gyrfalcon]

With Mulberry and Oak even Ash I get enough coals to heat a small house, takes forever to burn them down.

You should try beech. It gives fantastic, long heat, but man, it coals worse than anything I've ever burned.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Coal Management 101. Someone needs to post a video of best practices. I sure could use it. Now in my second year with the PE, I've become more vigilant with dealing with my coals. As Slow1 says, it does pay to plan ahead. My wife runs the stove during the day (i.e. loads when she can due to her own hectic schedule), so there's a little management work to be done to 1.) Get the house temp up before bedtime for the kids and 2.) Get the coals burnt down for a nice overnight load. Every bit of advice here should be considered, including diligence on the insulation. We burn pellets as well, and a handful of pellets atop a raked pile of coals with the air on high does wonders. For the non-pellet folks here, might be worth buying a bag at $4-$5 every now and again. Stay warm, folks!

Wow. There's a good thought. Thanks! I hate to use up my good splits so fast just to burn down the charcoal. This is a great idea.

 

[gyrfalcon]

I suspect coaling problems are due to pushing the stove harder for more heat. This could be due to a stove being a tad too small for area being heated or the wood being a bit too wet (thus you get less heat from the same loads). Anyone who is dealing with coaling issues for a long time (not just a couple ultr-cold days, whatever that is in your climate) should take heed of this and consider whether perhaps their wood could be dryer or maybe their stove is too small...

I generally like having a nice hot coal bed sit there for hours putting out heat - but it certainly isn't as much heat as the first 2-4 hrs of the burn. When I want that longer peak heat is when I get eager to load and then the coal bed isn't "a really nice long burn" but a "problem."

True. But it doesn't make a lot of sense to get a stove based on the coldest few days of the year. I'm pushing my new Heritage a bit in the current stretch of low single-digit and below temps, but down to the teens, it's perfect.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Thanks all, I did try mixing up coals and laying 1 to 2 splits on them and the air 3/4 open and worked good. Coals burnt down well and kept the temp's up too. It has been in the 20's the last couple of days so was just trying to keep heat going steady. I think I am finally getting to know my stove a little better thanks to you guys. I think the 1 to 2 splits at a time is a good way to burn the coals down faster and keep heat going.

Good for you. Nobody who requires consistent temperatures all winter should rely on a woodstove. Not gonna happen.

 

[gyrfalcon]

I am always confused when people complain about too many coals.

Talking about charcoal, not red-hot burning coals. Not much of an issue for people in your climate, but a chronic problem for folks in much colder climates.

 

[HDRock]

So I am always confused when people mention temps because there are so many possibilities--could be a cat thermometer, or an external magnetic on a single or double wall pipe, or on the stove or in IR. When people mention temps to help give info or advice sometimes it is not clear.

The reason I mention it is this--now that it is so cold I have been experimenting with putting in more wood in my T5 either for more heat or longer burns. I have a magnetic pipe thermometer which I have about 18 inches up. I know they are not precise but I think for my purpose close enough. So this morning it was 15 degrees outside, I had a roaring hot bed of coals but the pipe temp was in the yellow--about 150--and the house was still tolerable from the overnight burn. I opened up the air all the way, raked the coals flat and let it sit a a few minutes -I put 3 very small pieces just to get a flame up, then two 3-inch splits and 2 maybe 5-inch on top of that. It flamed right up and shot to 700 in the red zone . I could hear crackling in the pipe and it kind of had that new stove smell. It stayed there for maybe 15 minutes and I was going out but waited till it came down to the top of the orange about 525 which required a couple of adjustments to cut the air. So many people here say that they load up their stove for a long burn, or for overnight, but even when I have much smaller mostly ashy coals if I load more wood than mentioned above it shoots right up. I probably shouldn't complain because the stove seems very efficient and the wood is clearly very dry because even large splits flame right up. And I can generally keep the house comfortable. But it still puzzles me how other people can load their stoves so much fuller. Any thoughts?

A magnetic Thermometer on a single wall pipe reading 700 degrees, Would be about 1400 degrees inside the pipe which is way too hot. But still that is assuming that the Thermometer that you happen to buy is accurate and a lot of them are not
Loading on a hot bed of coals spread out Like that, You need to start dialing it down pretty quick to keep it from rocketing up like that

 

[Paulywalnut]

I love fiddling around with the stove so I enjoy putting two or three at a time in when I'm home or weekends.

 

[oldspark]

A magnetic Thermometer on a single wall pipe reading 700 degrees, Would be about 1400 degrees inside the pipe which is way too hot

I hit 650 surface temp all the time (checked with IR tester) but by the time it gets to the class a pipe its only about 450, no biggie.

 

[rwhite]

I have an insert and it has a bit smaller box than yours but here is what I experience. 1st, get to know your stove and your wood and at what temp you can do full reloads. Even if the thermometer is not that accurate it probably reads the same temp each an every time. I know that at 300 I can safely reload a full load with getting the stove to hot. I probably have the same problem as you. When the outside temp gets below about -5 the time it takes the stove to go from 500 down to 300 so I can reload is enough that the house cools off. You either deal with it and let the furnace take over during those times or do like I do. When it gets that cold outside I just watch the stovetop temp and when it gets to 400 and all I have is coals I open the air full and let it burn down quick so I can reload sooner. I does waste a bit more wood but I don't have that big time gap to let the house get cold. I figure I waste about an extra load a day doing this. Since it doesn't stay -5 around here for to long I don't worry about it much.

 

[YkDave]

my stove gets to be a bit of a PITA when the outside temps start dropping below -35c (last week it never got warmer than -40c!)

I have a hard time getting more than 6hrs of 'good' heat out of my stove in these temps, it just doesnt hold enough of this crappy jackpine

So typically, their are frequent re-loads, and subsequent buildup of charcoal which makes the sitaution even worse. Generally i have to fill the stove up 3-4 times a day, once early morning (~3am), again at 7:30 before i go to work, then again at lunch (1pm). By the time i get home after work its time to deal with the coal situation. Like most have figured out, i pull it all to the front, throw some small splits ontop of the pile and open the air. If im at home for the evening ill spend a bit of time trying to burn off as much as possible. but generally just doing this once cuts down the charcoals alot. Then its time to pack her full for the night!

 

[dyerkutn]

class a pipe

is that the whole flue or just part of it?

I hit 650 surface temp all the time (checked with IR tester) but by the time it gets to the class a pipe its only about 450, no biggie.

sorry to be so thick--so that is 650 on the stovetop surface and 450 on the flue (pipe)

 

[dyerkutn]

I know that at 300 I can safely reload a full load with getting the stove to hot. I probably have the same problem as you. When the outside temp gets below about -5 the time it takes the stove to go from 500 down to 300

are these stove top temps or flue temps?

 

[dyerkutn]

pen the air full and let it burn down quick so I can reload sooner. I does waste a bit more wood

since the coals get more red hot and starting throwing out more heat when you open the air I don't think it really wastes heat.

 

[rwhite]

are these stove top temps or flue temps?

Stove top temps. But don't use my temps as a guage as I'm sure my thermometer is not very accurate, you'll just have to experiment (and likely get it to hot once or twice) to get to know your stove.

 

[rwhite]

since the coals get more red hot and starting throwing out more heat when you open the air I don't think it really wastes heat.

Not wasting heat for sure, just using more wood than normal.

 

[jrcurto]

Air sealing and insulating are key to making wood burning and house heating/cooling a pleasure. My father is a home energy auditor and I finally got a jump on doing my home. If you can get an energy audit try to but there is a lot of information on the internet about sealing your house. Just tightenining my first floor attic space has made the reloading process elementary. Almost to the point where I just want a big bed of coals to keep the downstairs at that mid-70 degree range that is so nice this time of year. The heat in the house just does not dissipate the way it used to. Keep in mind the process of air sealing, you cannot insulate an attic space and have air flowing up into and under the insulation, it will carry moisture and defeat heat retention. It starts at the basement along sill plates, wire and plumbing penetrations, outlets, as well as window drafts. You really cannot just seal a few drafts here and there, its all or none. Air will find the next path to carry heat up and away, and cold air in from its concentration. Continuing into the attic you must seal the plates where the walls meet the ceiling joists and you should consider a complete vapor barrier along the joists before laying any fiberglass. Blown in insulation is another option. Keep in mind your soffit and the vents which need to be kept clear with the use of baffles. If you have a drop-down attic stair case, buy or fabricate a seal that lets you get into the space while stopping cold air from pouring down into the house. It is a tedious job but worth it exponentially. My family room below the arttic can become almost too warm at times and I now need to move the heat down the house with fan circulation. My second story attic will be much worse since I made the fatal mistake of flooring over the old R-12 and used it for storage but when that is done it will be like a new interior envelope to climate control. Either way, keep burning man. Happy Holidays.
Jim