Heavy puffer sauna stove needs help please

[bandoo]

As a test, when this thing starts puffing like the little engine that could, take a piece of tin (or something non combustible and cover about half of the exhaust stack (at the top). See if that stops the puffing. I am suspecting very low stack temps. Do you ever sweep the stack? Do you get much black or gooey stuff in the stack?

The stack is brand new stainless. The temp. when I tried it last a few days ago was 75 outside.
The last stove in the same place that had 6" pipe was iron water pipe and never got gooey stuff, just flakey stuff. You thinking double wall?
What do you think of the piece of 8" water pipe coming up from the top of the stove?
Thanks

 

[begreen]

When the stove is hot and running and the inlet is open a half inch there is no puffing. Open it another half inch and it gets puffing.
Could it maybe the upright piece off the top of the stove?
Maybe it should come out a few inches then go into angle before exiting the wall?

If I understand the pictures, I think the reason that this stove is not working well as the other stove is that the flue is coming out mid-back instead of out of the top.

 

[bandoo]

If I understand the pictures, I think the reason that this stove is not working well as the other stove is that the flue is coming out mid-back instead of out of the top.

The pictue of the inside of the stove failed to rotate when I sent it. So it looks like it's coming out the side.
The stack comes out the top of the stove about 6" from the back.

 

[fossil]

If I understand the pictures, I think the reason that this stove is not working well as the other stove is that the flue is coming out mid-back instead of out of the top.

That's what I thought I was looking at, as well...but then I can't resolve that notion in my head with the pic with all the rocks and the non-ferrous pipe coming straight up, turning 90° and heading out. I'm still not sure just what this stove looks like. Rick

 

[fossil]

OK, so it looks like this from the outside through the loading door...?

 

[bandoo]

OK, so it looks like this from the outside through the loading door...?

View attachment 67092

Yes that's right.

 

[Jags]

Is that a damper in the rise coming off of the stove in this pic?
(broken link removed to http://postimage.org/image/s3o82fyen/)

Do you have any idea of what the body temp and stack temp of the stove is during a hard run? Magnetic thermometer?

 

[Jags]

Downdraft
excessive outgassing
Air intrusion
Leaky stove
These are about the only things that can cause your symptoms. (just talking out loud, here)

Question: When you have the primary air set so that the stove is NOT puffing, do you hear a rush of air into that hole? Is it possible that when you clamp the primary down that it is creating a nozzle or venturi effect that actually fuels the fire BETTER than with the primary open?

 

[bandoo]

Is that a damper in the rise coming off of the stove in this pic?
(broken link removed to http://postimage.org/image/s3o82fyen/) Yes that's the damper.

Do you have any idea of what the body temp and stack temp of the stove is during a hard run? Magnetic thermometer?

No but I will check. Last time I ran it it was real warm out and I ran it for about 3 hours.
If there is any leakage it would be a few mm around the door. Other than that it's totally sealed.
It's a water boiler body before they made it into a boiler.

 

[begreen]

What is this, the old stove? Having the pictures here in context of the conversation would sure help.



Or is this the new stove with the door hidden? If so, it makes more sense.

 

[begreen]

What is the composition of the wall surrounding this stove? Makes me nervous each time I look at this picture.

 

[bandoo]

Downdraft
excessive outgassing
Air intrusion
Leaky stove
These are about the only things that can cause your symptoms. (just talking out loud, here)

Question: When you have the primary air set so that the stove is NOT puffing, do you hear a rush of air into that hole? Is it possible that when you clamp the primary down that it is creating a nozzle or venturi effect that actually fuels the fire BETTER than with the primary open?

(broken link removed to http://postimage.org/image/3vz1k5l2n/)
I'm not sure what you mean.
There is only one air inlet on the stove and it's located outside the sauna.
When the screw in/out inlet is open about a quarter inch or less it's ok.

The problem is starting it and having enough draft to get it going without all the puffing out the inlet.
I have to sit with it for 45 minutes nursing it so it doesn't puff too much. If I crack the door a hair the puffing stops and the air rushes in and blazes like crazy.Then I shut it down with the draft open a tiny bit it's then ok but not enough air gets to the wood so I open the inlet/draft some more and it starts puffing again so I have to go through the process again and again till it's hot enough to use.

And also halfway through when you want to increase the heat any time you go beyond the quarter inch open it starts puffing again.

Maybe the shape of the screw in draft has something to do with it?
Or the steel pipe that comes from the top of the stove to the elbow should have been way shorter??
It's got me stumped.
.
I can take any other pictures need.

 

[begreen]

Please post these images directly. The off site references are not helping.

 

[bandoo]

What is the composition of the wall surrounding this stove? Makes me nervous each time I look at this picture.

it's foamed concrete completely noncombustible.

I have been running a stove in the same place for about 20 years.
The old smaller stove (3/4 volume to this one) box shaped rusted out so we decided to use a round shape to keep the welds down and simplify construction.
The old stove had a 6" pipe/stack.

We thought sice it was so much bigger we would go to an 8" since even my VC and Hartland had 8" pipe I couldn't imagine it would be a problem.

 

[bandoo]

Please post these images directly. The off site references are not helping.

Would love to ,If you don't mind please tell me how to do it. I couldn't figure it out.

 

[begreen]

Use the Upload a File option. The button is next to the Post Reply button. If the images are large, use the thumbnail option.

 

[bandoo]

 

[bandoo]

View attachment 67110

Here are the rest of the pictures. The stack is not as near to combustibles as it looks from the pictures.

 

[bandoo]

Here are few better in proportion pictures now that I know how to upload them.

 

[begreen]

Great, that helps. I converted them to thumbnails for easier viewing.

How is the 8" pipe joined to the 6" pipe. Are there leaks or air gaps there?

How are the walls around the stove and the stove pipe constructed?

 

[bandoo]

Great, that helps. I converted them to thumbnails for easier viewing.

How is the 8" pipe joined to the 6" pipe. Are there leaks or air gaps there? The old stove was all 6"
but it was 25% smaller capacity.
It's all 8" now from the stove to the top of the stack.

How are the walls around the stove and the stove pipe constructed?

They are cement block.. Actually something called etung which is foamed concrete in blocks.There is a cute little hand made wooden house above so I am really on the fire danger thing..
I will send thumbnails from now on. Thanks for telling me.

 

[Jags]

Okay - in my head this is all about the draft. Your last explanation of how you start the fire proves it to me. I don't know what your options are as far as getting rid of that long horizontal run (even for testing purposes) are?

 

[bandoo]

Okay - in my head this is all about the draft. Your last explanation of how you start the fire proves it to me. I don't know what your options are as far as getting rid of that long horizontal run (even for testing purposes) are?

It's not possible to move anything at this point.
Before we put this stove in there was a smaller one with a 6" pipe with the exact horizontal as now without any puffing.
With this installation we increased the upward horizontal angle of that piece to 30 degrees.
The upright stack is more than 5 yards high.....one yard higher than the last one..

 

[bandoo]

It's not possible to move anything at this point.
Before we put this stove in there was a smaller one with a 6" pipe with the exact horizontal as now without any puffing.
With this installation we increased the upward horizontal angle of that piece to 30 degrees.
The upright stack is more than 5 yards high.....one yard higher than the last one..

another difference is the pipe from the top of the stove went up about 6 inches then into a srtaight piece then another elbow out the wall creating a more gradual angle rather than the 21 inch upright exiting the wall at 30 degrees..

 

[Jags]

It's not possible to move anything at this point.
Before we put this stove in there was a smaller one with a 6" pipe with the exact horizontal as now without any puffing.
With this installation we increased the upward horizontal angle of that piece to 30 degrees.
The upright stack is more than 5 yards high.....one yard higher than the last one..

5 yards high with the negative impact of a horizontal run (even at 30 degrees) is less than ideal for even the best drafting stove. Add in the fact that you are using an 8" pipe on a mid sized stove and I can see issues rising up. Issues that you obviously are dealing with.

Can you add height?