heating with a wood cook stove??

[SpaceBus]

Hot water heating is very different from boiling water. It's at a much lower temp. A proper water jacket system should have safeguards if this should happen.

I doubt it would still remain legal if modified with a domestic hot water coil, so we wouldn't do it unless Jotul offered it back in the day.

 

[VirginiaIron]

Well, I really like the domestic hot water heating offered in some cook stoves. It's usually just a stainless pipe bent in a "U" shape with threaded pipe nipples on the back or side. It would be something I would add to my electric system to take load off when possible.

Either way, I love the little 404, or at least the little bit of information I can find online. If my electric glass top oven counts as a non combustible surface then I'll probably start looking out for one in New England.

Hot water heating is very different from boiling water. It's at a much lower temp. A proper water jacket system should have safeguards if this should happen.

Our original stove had the stainless piping to heat water for the floor. The design was a closed system and included a TPRV but was poorly thought out, but worked ok. Really, it required 24 hour supervision in case the power failed even though it fed by gravity to some degree. With no other additional high tech safety It would have been safer as an open system to let the pipes boil dry into an open tub if any of the system failed. A gravity fed, open system that utilizes a tub with a non-airtight lid could work for a manifold to a pumped secondary system. The real problem is disconnecting the heat source from the water/ vessel/ pressure vessel/ when power or pump fails so the pressures aren't exceeded and leading to catastrophe. There was an external coil system manufactured for the stove pipe at one time and when the power failed or the water temps increased past setpoint the damper at the base of the plenum opened and cooled the converter (piping) even though the vent pipe was maintaining temperature- I currently cannot find it on the web and I thought it carried a listing at that time. Mother Earth and many other DIY systems exist but to my knowledge they are not listed for safety.

 

[SpaceBus]

It was worth a shot, I still like the 404. Still tho, does my electric glass top oven count as a non combustible surface? If so, then it would be a super easy install.

 

[VirginiaIron]

It was worth a shot, I still like the 404. Still tho, does my electric glass top oven count as a non combustible surface? If so, then it would be a super easy install.

I believe that top does qualify as a non combustible surface within the design and intentions that it was tested, accepted, and passed. Once you modify it, or use it for something other than originally designed and intended for, all bets are off, and you loose all listing for safety, underwriting, etc.
So sorry for taking the long way around. My answer is no, since you need to install and maintaining only those devices/equipment that are UL/ETL accepted for safety.

 

[SpaceBus]

I believe that top does qualify as a non combustible surface within the design and intentions that it was tested, accepted, and passed. Once you modify it, or use it for something other than originally designed and intended for, all bets are off, and you loose all listing for safety, underwriting, etc.
So sorry for taking the long way around. My answer is no, since you need to install and maintaining only those devices/equipment that are UL/ETL accepted for safety.

I didn't communicate clearly, I apologize. What I mean to ask is if I install the 404 next to my electric glass top oven can I have it within the 5" clearance to non combustibles mentioned in the 404 manual? If so, I only need to shield my cabinets and the rear wall if I can't find the rear heat shield (unlikely I suppose).

 

[VirginiaIron]

I didn't communicate clearly, I apologize. What I mean to ask is if I install the 404 next to my electric glass top oven can I have it within the 5" clearance to non combustibles mentioned in the 404 manual? If so, I only need to shield my cabinets and the rear wall if I can't find the rear heat shield (unlikely I suppose).

I appologize as well. Sometimes the internet is too far a gap to properly convey the intended messages either way. Looking at the project onsite is safer and gets far better results than my attempt, or anyone's attempt to help you. Imo, you have to follow the installation instructions and especially if the install is of unusually close clearances. Since the manual doesn't cover your particular install, I suggest that you seek advice from a licensed professional that can visually confirm your plans, your measurements, and is willing to certify your design and changes after they inspect it.

 

[SpaceBus]

The only issue I'm running into is whether or not a kitchen appliance can be considered non combustible. The rest of the install is pretty straight forward, given I can find a rear heat shield. I just can't find anything to tell me if the side of the oven counts as noncombustible. It's funny you mention licensed installers, the closest one is over an hour away. Eventually I want to be certified and do installs in my area, but that's another discussion.

 

[SpaceBus]

If I'm reading NFPA 220 and 211 correctly my electric kitchen stove should count as a non combustible since it's steel and glass and doesn't use combustible fuel.

 

[Nateums]

Joyboy, that Esse looks awesome. Having secondary combustion is pretty sweet to get extra efficiency when it is also your main heater.

We have a kitchen queen 380. This is the 3rd year heating, 1st I was still building the house, second it was our only heat source, this year I installed a ductless minisplit as backup. The stove easily heats the house, almost too easily. It went down to around 5F last night, and woke up to 70F downstairs, threw some logs on the coals and we're sitting at 78F inside and 8F out - that's with having doors open to load up our firewood rack .

Our house has a lot of insulation and is very air tight. One issue we have is that we only need 1 or 2 fires a day, so sometimes it just isn't practical to time the fire with cooking. Especially with a toddler.. Without a toddler, even single digit weather you could do 1 fire at night and heat our house if you are ok with temp fluctiation between 64-72-ish. Anyhow, the thing throws the heat off. Doing 2 fires per day you can always restart from coals. One fire a day usually requires kindling.

The oven especially cooks better than anything I have used before. Food also seems to be more tolerant of a range of temps. Taking the main cook plate off, and sticking a wok right over the fire, there's also just nothing else like that. It really can be a pleasure and something to look forward to in the long, cold, dark winter.

In a couple years I may plumb the stove for hot water, it does come predrilled for hookup.

I have admittedly wondered if a blaze king would be a better fit in our house. Being able to burn at the lowest setting for 24-40 hours most of the winter would probably save us a fair amount of wood. It also would allow us to tighten up the temp swings in the house.

Here's a pic of some fried rice I cooked the other night.

 

[bholler]

Joyboy, that Esse looks awesome. Having secondary combustion is pretty sweet to get extra efficiency when it is also your main heater.

We have a kitchen queen 380. This is the 3rd year heating, 1st I was still building the house, second it was our only heat source, this year I installed a ductless minisplit as backup. The stove easily heats the house, almost too easily. It went down to around 5F last night, and woke up to 70F downstairs, threw some logs on the coals and we're sitting at 78F inside and 8F out - that's with having doors open to load up our firewood rack .

Our house has a lot of insulation and is very air tight. One issue we have is that we only need 1 or 2 fires a day, so sometimes it just isn't practical to time the fire with cooking. Especially with a toddler.. Without a toddler, even single digit weather you could do 1 fire at night and heat our house if you are ok with temp fluctiation between 64-72-ish. Anyhow, the thing throws the heat off. Doing 2 fires per day you can always restart from coals. One fire a day usually requires kindling.

The oven especially cooks better than anything I have used before. Food also seems to be more tolerant of a range of temps. Taking the main cook plate off, and sticking a wok right over the fire, there's also just nothing else like that. It really can be a pleasure and something to look forward to in the long, cold, dark winter.

In a couple years I may plumb the stove for hot water, it does come predrilled for hookup.

I have admittedly wondered if a blaze king would be a better fit in our house. Being able to burn at the lowest setting for 24-40 hours most of the winter would probably save us a fair amount of wood. It also would allow us to tighten up the temp swings in the house.

Here's a pic of some fried rice I cooked the other night.

View attachment 237955

The esse is not a good heater at all. But they are fantastic cook stoves.

 

[Nateums]

The esse is not a good heater at all. But they are fantastic cook stoves.

Huh... didn't realize that. I don't know much about them because it was out of our price range.

Mainly just wanted to share our experience with the Kitchen Queen because there isn't much info out there on cook stoves.

 

[bholler]

Huh... didn't realize that. I don't know much about them because it was out of our price range.

Mainly just wanted to share our experience with the Kitchen Queen because there isn't much info out there on cook stoves.

There isn't much info because the market is tiny.

 

[Joyboy]

Joyboy, that Esse looks awesome. Having secondary combustion is pretty sweet to get extra efficiency when it is also your main heater.

We have a kitchen queen 380. This is the 3rd year heating, 1st I was still building the house, second it was our only heat source, this year I installed a ductless minisplit as backup. The stove easily heats the house, almost too easily. It went down to around 5F last night, and woke up to 70F downstairs, threw some logs on the coals and we're sitting at 78F inside and 8F out - that's with having doors open to load up our firewood rack .

Our house has a lot of insulation and is very air tight. One issue we have is that we only need 1 or 2 fires a day, so sometimes it just isn't practical to time the fire with cooking. Especially with a toddler.. Without a toddler, even single digit weather you could do 1 fire at night and heat our house if you are ok with temp fluctiation between 64-72-ish. Anyhow, the thing throws the heat off. Doing 2 fires per day you can always restart from coals. One fire a day usually requires kindling.

The oven especially cooks better than anything I have used before. Food also seems to be more tolerant of a range of temps. Taking the main cook plate off, and sticking a wok right over the fire, there's also just nothing else like that. It really can be a pleasure and something to look forward to in the long, cold, dark winter.

In a couple years I may plumb the stove for hot water, it does come predrilled for hookup.

I have admittedly wondered if a blaze king would be a better fit in our house. Being able to burn at the lowest setting for 24-40 hours most of the winter would probably save us a fair amount of wood. It also would allow us to tighten up the temp swings in the house.

Here's a pic of some fried rice I cooked the other night.

View attachment 237955

Thanks. I really like the kitchen queen. I liked the doors with windows option too. That’s the way I would have went as well. I agree that these ovens with the heavy steel plate, cook very good. Real even.

I really like being able to restart the fire with just coals. Not a huge fan of starting a fire all the time. Super cedars help cut down on the axe work. Lol

How big of area are you heating?

 

[Joyboy]

The esse is not a good heater at all. But they are fantastic cook stoves.

They rate them at 17000 btu’s output. This is with the fire door and hob lids open. Probably enough to heat 400 to 800 feet depending on how well insulated you are. With the hob lids and fire door closed it would be a good bit less. At least half the output maybe even less.

 

[Nateums]

Thanks. I really like the kitchen queen. I liked the doors with windows option too. That’s the way I would have went as well. I agree that these ovens with the heavy steel plate, cook very good. Real even.

I really like being able to restart the fire with just coals. Not a huge fan of starting a fire all the time. Super cedars help cut down on the axe work. Lol

How big of area are you heating?

About 1450 sq/ft. It only reached 8F today, we reloaded at around 9 and it was still 70 inside. The kitchen queen has really lived up to expectations.

I have wondered if part of why the oven works so well is that it also kind of steams the food.

 

[SpaceBus]

About 1450 sq/ft. It only reached 8F today, we reloaded at around 9 and it was still 70 inside. The kitchen queen has really lived up to expectations.

I have wondered if part of why the oven works so well is that it also kind of steams the food.

I wish the KQ wasn't so ugly, I would totally get one.

 

[Nateums]

I wish the KQ wasn't so ugly, I would totally get one.

lol.. they are definitely plain. It is just 1 or 2 amish guys making them.

I will tell you the thing is built like tank, it will last the rest of my lifetime and I think a couple more after that. Not much... probably not anything... you can buy today where you can say that.

 

[SpaceBus]

lol.. they are definitely plain. It is just 1 or 2 amish guys making them.

I will tell you the thing is built like tank, it will last the rest of my lifetime and I think a couple more after that. Not much you can buy today where you can say that.

I agree that it's probably the best all round cook stove on the market if you don't care about how it looks. My wife, and I agree with her, won't let one in the house. Right now my plan for a wood cooker is finding an old Jotul 404 and putting it next to the electric range.

 

[Nateums]

I agree that it's probably the best all round cook stove on the market if you don't care about how it looks. My wife, and I agree with her, won't let one in the house. Right now my plan for a wood cooker is finding an old Jotul 404 and putting it next to the electric range.

Yeah, some of those old ones are really cool looking. I can't remember the names but they are so ornate. No good for heating though.

 

[SpaceBus]

Yeah, some of those old ones are really cool looking. I can't remember the names but they are so ornate. No good for heating though.

Oh the Jotul 404 isn't that old. Most are circa 1999 and UL listed. The old victorian styled stoves are beautiful, but totally impractical in my home. I really like the Esse Ironheart and might pick one up if I can't find a Jotul 404, but the Esse stoves are not cheap. We have a heat stove, so I want the cook stove for cooking, or if it had a hot water hook up I would run the cook stove full time.

 

[begreen]

Have you checked out the Hearthstone Deva 100? It's right sized for heating your place if the kitchen is open to the other rooms.

 

[Nateums]

Oh, I didn't realize jotul made a cook stove that recently. I just googled it, looks like it's the size of an end table.

The Vermont Bun Bakers are nice looking with a small foot print. Sure aren'tcheap though.

 

[SpaceBus]

Have you checked out the Hearthstone Deva 100? It's right sized for heating your place if the kitchen is open to the other rooms.

Are those UL listed? I had seen them, and they do look good, but wasn't sure if it would work in our home. The rear clearance of 16 inches will make it not work so well. I'm not really too concerned with a cook stove that can heat the house, unless it can run my domestic hot water, then we could give the Morso a break and only use it on really cold nights.

 

[begreen]

With double-wall stove pipe it's 14" rear clearance. Closer with protected surfaces.
(broken link removed)

 

[SpaceBus]

With double-wall stove pipe it's 14" rear clearance.
(broken link removed)

Unfortunately I don't see a UL listing for it so still a no-go in our house. As the house sits almost on the water, insurance is tough as it is. We barely got a policy with a UL listed wood space heater.