I see kitchen queen has come out with a new stove the Grand Comfort 750 it is 88% efficient
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heating with a wood cook stove??
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KJamesJR
Feeling the Heat
I was checking these out a while back. Company in Vermont.
https://www.vermontwoodstove.com/vermont-bun-baker/
https://www.vermontwoodstove.com/vermont-bun-baker/
Also known as the Nectre Bakers Oven from Australia.
They are fine for emergency cooking when used for space heating, but no comparison to a full size kitchen range.
Kitchen Queen is making a similar stove to the Bun Baker called the Grand Wood Cook Stove for 2499.
I'm not sure about the new Grand Comfort 750.
I was impressed with the all stainless oven and oven door stainless interior panel. The secondary burn firebox is a small shed with secondary burn tubes! Built for higher firebox temps fully lined to the top, but the grate isn't going to work with coal like the Queen 480. (the entire bottom is grate that allows full airflow) I don't see any side outlet from the fire to burn horizontally under the oven and up, and so far I see no advertising about the oven circulation from bottom to top. Looks like the secondary combustion at top will go across the cooktop, down the side and under oven like the old style ovens. I won't knock it until I try it since Dwane tests all products in Amish households before offering to the public. If it hasn't proven itself with the Amish women, he won't produce it.
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Yes, the original testing was done to 1482 in 1998. Omni Testing Labs Beaverton OR. (The old tags stated "Listed and Tested by Omni, but not to what UL test was performed causing the confusion)
March 8, 2016 re-testing was done to the updated Queen stove by Guardian Testing Services, NY.
The differences of the Queen model are;
1) The high amount of floor protection is no longer required; The original called for 3/4 thick material with K-factor of 0.84. The proposed alternate was 4 inch brick with C-factor of 1.25 over mineral board with K-factor of 0.29. Total required R value was reached at 0.893 for original.
(Formula is R=1/kxt=1/0.84x.75=0.893)
The new style passed for 0.0 R value with UL requirement of ember protection only required for all stoves.
2) Reduced pipe and chimney sizing; The old style 380 was 6 inch and 480 was 7 (designed originally to match antique cook stove connections with 7 inch) NFPA would have allowed reduction of the 480 to 6, BUT the old manual stated NO reduction was allowed. The re-test was done on a 6 inch 480 allowing 6 inch to be used on both the 380 and 480.
3) Reduced clearances; Without shield, old clearance was 36 inches to rear, not including 6.5 inch flue collar extended towards the rear. New clearance is 18 inches to rear, and flue collar extension has been eliminated. Old side clearance was 18 inches. New passed with 12 inch side clearance.
4) Shielding; With shielding, the new style passed with 2 inch side clearance and 6 inches rear.
New manuals are of course supplied with the newer stoves and available on-line.
March 8, 2016 re-testing was done to the updated Queen stove by Guardian Testing Services, NY.
The differences of the Queen model are;
1) The high amount of floor protection is no longer required; The original called for 3/4 thick material with K-factor of 0.84. The proposed alternate was 4 inch brick with C-factor of 1.25 over mineral board with K-factor of 0.29. Total required R value was reached at 0.893 for original.
(Formula is R=1/kxt=1/0.84x.75=0.893)
The new style passed for 0.0 R value with UL requirement of ember protection only required for all stoves.
2) Reduced pipe and chimney sizing; The old style 380 was 6 inch and 480 was 7 (designed originally to match antique cook stove connections with 7 inch) NFPA would have allowed reduction of the 480 to 6, BUT the old manual stated NO reduction was allowed. The re-test was done on a 6 inch 480 allowing 6 inch to be used on both the 380 and 480.
3) Reduced clearances; Without shield, old clearance was 36 inches to rear, not including 6.5 inch flue collar extended towards the rear. New clearance is 18 inches to rear, and flue collar extension has been eliminated. Old side clearance was 18 inches. New passed with 12 inch side clearance.
4) Shielding; With shielding, the new style passed with 2 inch side clearance and 6 inches rear.
New manuals are of course supplied with the newer stoves and available on-line.
I thought cook stoves were covered in the next round. Atleast that is what the origonal timeline was. But the inclusion of furnaces got pushed back several times so who knows.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Around here, any good 18th century house was built with a summer kitchen outside the house, and I believe that conventioned carried all up and down the more populated areas Atlantic coast. It seems that this convention was abandoned sometime around the early 19th century, which would coincide with a move from cooking on open fires to these cookstoves. Without just guessing (we can all do that), does anyone know if there is a cause/effect relationship between the adoption of the iron cook stove and the end of the summer kitchen?
Today, the summer kitchens built stoutly enough to survive 250 years are generally connected into the house, and used as den or some other modern purpose. Mine was used as storage until 1994, when all but the original cooking fireplace was removed, to be incorporated into an addition to the house. The photo in my avatar is of that fireplace, although it was likely plastered until 25 years ago, exposed stone is more of a modern obsession.
I'm glad I'm old enough to retire by 2020.
Personally, I'm against all states having different rules since it's much easier having federal rules govern everyone. However, the use of cook stoves is so small to the rest of the industry, and some states have so few cook stoves, it's difficult to group everyone together. When I see the number of people burning leaves, trash, furniture........including mattresses outside, I think they have far more issues than being concerned with the few cook stoves that will be sold after 2020.
On another note, I have a few neighbors driving vehicles with broken flex pipes which are not only super loud, but none of that exhaust is going through their convertors or obviously adjusting their fuel trim to burn clean using downstream 02 sensors! Even if they are stopped for noise, nothing is mentioned about emissions. Again, no one simply enforces laws on the books, but it's easy to walk into a manufacturing facility and test their products being produced. Given the chance, people are going to screw up compliant stoves just like any other.
Ah, my neighbor just fired up his old leaf blower that smokes so bad his cloud is over my house, light filtering through the blue haze around my clean burning chimney. Refreshing 2 cycle aroma fills the air.
Personally, I'm against all states having different rules since it's much easier having federal rules govern everyone. However, the use of cook stoves is so small to the rest of the industry, and some states have so few cook stoves, it's difficult to group everyone together. When I see the number of people burning leaves, trash, furniture........including mattresses outside, I think they have far more issues than being concerned with the few cook stoves that will be sold after 2020.
On another note, I have a few neighbors driving vehicles with broken flex pipes which are not only super loud, but none of that exhaust is going through their convertors or obviously adjusting their fuel trim to burn clean using downstream 02 sensors! Even if they are stopped for noise, nothing is mentioned about emissions. Again, no one simply enforces laws on the books, but it's easy to walk into a manufacturing facility and test their products being produced. Given the chance, people are going to screw up compliant stoves just like any other.
Ah, my neighbor just fired up his old leaf blower that smokes so bad his cloud is over my house, light filtering through the blue haze around my clean burning chimney. Refreshing 2 cycle aroma fills the air.
Yes but in every segment of the industry where the epa rules were applied the stoves got better. Way better. So why would you not want better cookstoves.
I'm not sure how secondary combustion is going to work with a cookstove. A baffle over the fire prevents direct contact with pans when an eye is removed, for us that is the benefit of fast cooking with wood. The Queen ovens that circulate across the bottom allow the flames to go sideways right around the oven. It has been the best design we've ever used, that's why I'm not sure about the changes until I try one. Secondary combustion is fine for space heating, but I think stove top temperatures and oven circulation takes more fuel. I think they need to burn the conventional way for that (requiring a large firebox and no baffle) and go to secondary combustion for space heating. It's back to the scenario of converting a design from coal to wood, not working well with both types of combustion.
Esse does it very well with a cat. With theirs you dont need to pull a plate that cat makes the top plenty hot enough. You can also rout that clean exhaust how ever you want. You only get a little fly ash. And on tube stoves when you get that secondary combustion going the stove top temp goes way up. There is no reason it couldnt work
Just piggy backing off your comment.
The Esse has secondary combustion as well. It has two sets of air vents on the door. One at the top and one at the bottom. When you get it up to temp, you close the vent on the bottom and the top vented air ignites. The only fire you see is above the wood. This secondary lasts for probably 30% of the load burn time, starting from when you load it with wood.
When you start to circulate the heat around the oven, is when it goes through the cat. When it was brand new and the hob was clean you could see a hot spot where the cat was sitting. It definitely was putting off some heat.
I didn't know Esse used a cat, at least with the Ironheart. Thought it was a wood/coal stove. What model does? (Edit - OK it is on the 990N model. It looks great though at $8500 no wonder I haven't seen one yet.)
With the cooler cat flue temps how much is lost when routing it around the oven? Cat stoves with straight up flues can dirty a chimney when run on low. How quickly does the Esse build up creosote in the chimney? Or is the cat on the flue outlet of the stove?
With the cooler cat flue temps how much is lost when routing it around the oven? Cat stoves with straight up flues can dirty a chimney when run on low. How quickly does the Esse build up creosote in the chimney? Or is the cat on the flue outlet of the stove?
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I dont have one but installed one and was invited over for a meal cooked with it. It is a great cook stove but not a heater. It is heavily insulated and with all the doors and lids closed it puts very little heat into the room. With the outer door open it does put out some heat but it is a very small firebox so it doesnt last long.
Beautiful stove. I have neither the house nor the budget for one, but it still makes me drool. I used to love baking and cooking with a wood cook stove. Too bad about the short burn time. I was hoping the cat would extend it considerably.
I dont know if it changed but when we installed it they were not listed and not sold in the us. So they had to pay to have it shipped overseas. They had a little over 10000 in it to get it to their door. Because it is not a heater the short burn times are not a big deal from what i saw. You started a fire cooked with the stove and let it go out pretty quickly.
Looks like Obidaihs started carrying it this year. They have it listed for around $8500 in black and $9100 in enamel. I ran our stove all day in the winter. Cooked breakfast, warmed up lunch, baked and made dinner on it. Less loading would be nice.
https://woodstoves.net/esse/esse-990-triple-oven-wood-cook-stove.htm
https://woodstoves.net/esse/esse-990-triple-oven-wood-cook-stove.htm
The cat is above the oven on the right side. I'm not sure how much creosote it accumulates yet. I replaced another stove and burned it for a couple months but didn't start with a clean chimney. It wasn't bad when i cleaned it this summer. 2 or 3 cups maybe? I've been burning it pretty good so far this fall and will let you know what it looks like when I clean it. i don't think anything is lost because the cat puts the heat into the stove.
It doesn't have short burn times surprisingly. This stove is very efficient. If it is up to cruising temps, i can load it up and cook a full meal on it without worrying about refilling. I can get overnight burns with this stove easily. When I say overnight burns, I mean there are plenty of coals to start a fire without kindling or matches and the oven is still probably 200 degree. One of the things I worry about is how slow it will burn if you want it to. Something I will keep an eye on when I clean it.
You are correct on the insulation part. Which is why I bought it. I wanted to be able to use it year round if i wanted to. I would guess that it would heat 100' if everything was closed up or 500' if everything was open. Just a guess though, my set up isn't very good to test this.
It is ul listed now. I have both the US manual and the European manual and it's funny to see the clearance differences. It's a lot. Lol
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