Harman P68 Distribution Fan ESP concerns

[alternativeheat]

so the test that he needs to do is turn dip switch to up(on) since its currently down (in his picture) and see if that cures the problem because it looks like this new board requires the red esp.

He has a black wired ESP, the correct position with the new board is down. The question: Which board does he have ? Most indications I have seen is there is no dip switch for the ESP on older boards, I'm assuming from that he has the updated board since it has a dip switch at all.. But what haunts me is if other people have issues using a black wire ESP on the new board period. What I have read ( no practical experience) is that it won't run at all with the dip switch up and a black wire ESP. My belief, and that is all it is, is that with the new board a red wire ESP is a surer bet. But honestly ? I wish some more folks would chime in here, ones who have been down this exact road !!

 

[miteclipse]

im going to agree that a red esp (if possible to exchange the black esp) and moving the dip switch to up is the best option to go here

 

[Rockin C&M Wyoming]

3-20-11744 replaced 3-20-00744 from what I'm seeing. I'm thinking you need the red esp.

Curious: After the previous owner replaced the board, did they have this issue? I'm beginning to think they did and stopped using it, then sold it (to you)

The only comment when I picked it up was that the control board and igniter were changed do to some "issue". He said that after the swap the technician believed the igniter was OK so I have the old one as a spare. Calling him to find out if he had similar problems after the swap and if he retired the stove for a propane stove was immediately after that may or may not help understand the problem.

 

[Rockin C&M Wyoming]

3-20-11744 replaced 3-20-00744 from what I'm seeing. I'm thinking you need the red esp.

Curious: After the previous owner replaced the board, did they have this issue? I'm beginning to think they did and stopped using it, then sold it (to you)

The only comment when I picked it up was that the control board and igniter were changed do to some "issue". He said that after the swap the technician believed the igniter was OK so I have the old one as a spare. Calling him to find out if he had similar problems after the swap and if he retired the stove for a propane stove was immediately after that may or may not help understand the problem.

I have the room senser wire plugged into the back of the stove and wonder if there is a possible problem where maybe the room sensor isn't working and the control board is having a problem with the ESP and the Room Temp wire? Just reaching for possible issues now. It's not like I can call my local Harman Technician and ask him or her to bring over their diagnostic tool. Closest Harman dealer is 5 hours away (125 miles) over mountainous passes. I did try the stove in Stove Temp Mode last night and got the same issues which would suggest it isn't the room temp sensor.

 

[miteclipse]

You have a ESP issue. Is it possible to get the red esp?
3 Blinks:
Indicates that the ESP (Exhaust Sensing Probe)
has failed, has a broken connection, or has gone out of range
too many times. This requires a manual reset*.

 

[Rockin C&M Wyoming]

You have a ESP issue. Is it possible to get the red esp?
3 Blinks:
Indicates that the ESP (Exhaust Sensing Probe)
has failed, has a broken connection, or has gone out of range
too many times. This requires a manual reset*.

Miteclipse, I have reset the 3 Blink error code about 4 times where it clears for a minute or two and then throws the error again. I don't have access to any "Harman Parts Dealers" locally so everything I purchase has to be online. I can certainly order a Red wired ESP, wait 7-10 working days for delivery or pay another $29 for two day delivery. I read somewhere that the probe portion of the Red wired ESP is fatter than the Black wired ESP and requires drilling the hole larger which isn't easy with where it is located. Is that info accurate about the hole size? Will the control board I have along with the Dip Switch change to the ON setting work? I'm not asking if it fixes my current problem, just if it is an approved change or upgrade to my model and serial number stove and current control board?

 

[alternativeheat]

A bad room sensor probe to my understanding sends the stove wacko and includes a 4 blink error. Or certainly a shorted one does. You're testing my memory banks here in this thread !! Seems to me people with bad RTS also had issues running in Stove Temp but it was dependent on what was wrong with the Room temp Probe.

Meanwhile I cleaned my vertical vent, I'm excited !!

 

[Rockin C&M Wyoming]

A bad room sensor probe to my understanding sends the stove wacko and includes a 4 blink error. Or certainly a shorted one does. You're testing my memory banks here in this thread !! Seems to me people with bad RTS also had issues running in Stove Temp but it was dependent on what was wrong with the Room temp Probe.

Meanwhile I cleaned my vertical vent, I'm excited !!

My verticle vents are brand new not requiring cleaning YET. I wish I had a Harman Stove Problem "Memory Bank" to access so counting all you folks who have been through this before.

 

[alternativeheat]

Try this to see if the error doesn't re appear.. Obviously clear the error. Run the stove in Stove Temp mode Manual ( no igniter) at a heat setting of 3 or even 2. This should run the stove with no convection fan ( room fan). it actually should do it at a setting below 4 but drop it down even more for the sake of it.
Lets see if you get the 3 blink code back or not.. If you don't my thought is there may be a problem in the convection circuit. It still bothers me that you experienced a slow starting fan.

 

[miteclipse]

Miteclipse, I have reset the 3 Blink error code about 4 times where it clears for a minute or two and then throws the error again. I don't have access to any "Harman Parts Dealers" locally so everything I purchase has to be online. I can certainly order a Red wired ESP, wait 7-10 working days for delivery or pay another $29 for two day delivery. I read somewhere that the probe portion of the Red wired ESP is fatter than the Black wired ESP and requires drilling the hole larger which isn't easy with where it is located. Is that info accurate about the hole size? Will the control board I have along with the Dip Switch change to the ON setting work? I'm not asking if it fixes my current problem, just if it is an approved change or upgrade to my model and serial number stove and current control board?

I know I was just eliminating the Room Temp Probe for you.
On your original manual, you should have the original circuit board part number. If you provide that number, we may be able to find the original board, and see if there was a replacement part number for it, to try to determine what board you have and compare settings.

I would do the test that alternativeheat suggests. If you no longer get the 3 blink error, then maybe it points as that being the problem. and its causing the other issue.

 

[Rockin C&M Wyoming]

I know I was just eliminating the Room Temp Probe for you.
On your original manual, you should have the original circuit board part number. If you provide that number, we may be able to find the original board, and see if there was a replacement part number for it, to try to determine what board you have and compare settings.

I would do the test that alternativeheat suggests. If you no longer get the 3 blink error, then maybe it points as that being the problem. and its causing the other issue.

The original owners manual shows PN 3-20-05374 for the circuit board. I have the stove off right now since I was getting the snow blower ready for installation my X300 John Deere garden tractor. I will start it up again and try what alternativeheat suggests. I will have to start it in Auto Ignite mode since I don't have any starting gel. Will get back with a response after I go through the process. Thanks all and Happy Thanksgiving to everyone. I added two photos that show the Circuit Board number. It will be interesting to hear how the B5371A that is installed in my stove and the 3-20-05374 compare.

 

[Rockin C&M Wyoming]

Try this to see if the error doesn't re appear.. Obviously clear the error. Run the stove in Stove Temp mode Manual ( no igniter) at a heat setting of 3 or even 2. This should run the stove with no convection fan ( room fan). it actually should do it at a setting below 4 but drop it down even more for the sake of it.
Lets see if you get the 3 blink code back or not.. If you don't my thought is there may be a problem in the convection circuit. It still bothers me that you experienced a slow starting fan.

I tried this and here how it went. I first started the fire in Auto Igniter mode with Room Temp set to 3, Feed Rate set to 4. The stove went thru what I would say is a normal start up. Once I had some flame in the burn pot I switched the setting from Auto Igniter to Manual. As the fire continued to build nicely the feeder appeared to be running normally, after a little while the Igniter light went out, not immediately when I switched to Manual. The combustion fan was showing as running the whole time and then the feeder started cycling as I would expect to put more pellets in the burn pot. After a couple of minutes the Distribution Fan came on high and ran a little while then shut off and at that point........... guess what error code came on again. yepper, the 3 Blink error. So the stove is in Stove Temp Mode, distribution fan knob is on L, pellet feed rate at 4 and the Temp Dial set at 3. The Distribution Fan comes on full speed for a while then shuts off. From everything I read in Stove Temp Mode with a setting below 5 the Distribution Fan isn't supposed to come on. What did we learn from this test? I'm at a loss to understand this one. Auger just ran for about 6 seconds, as soon as it shut off the Distribution fan came on full force. This sequence just keeps repeating itself where the auger might run for 5 or 6 seconds a couple of times and then the Dist. Fan comes on full force runs for awhile, shuts off completely stays like that through a couple of feeder cycles and then the process repeats. No igniter light since it is in Manual. Small but steady fire in burn pot with all the flames near the end of the auger, not further out on the burn pot.

 

[Golfeur]

The black ESP probe is he has a connector at the end and is connected directly to the motherboard if so do you put on the connector on the right side except if it is to connect to the temperature reading going to be false

 

[alternativeheat]

I tried this and here how it went. I first started the fire in Auto Igniter mode with Room Temp set to 3, Feed Rate set to 4. The stove went thru what I would say is a normal start up. Once I had some flame in the burn pot I switched the setting from Auto Igniter to Manual. As the fire continued to build nicely the feeder appeared to be running normally, after a little while the Igniter light went out, not immediately when I switched to Manual. The combustion fan was showing as running the whole time and then the feeder started cycling as I would expect to put more pellets in the burn pot. After a couple of minutes the Distribution Fan came on high and ran a little while then shut off and at that point........... guess what error code came on again. yepper, the 3 Blink error. So the stove is in Stove Temp Mode, distribution fan knob is on L, pellet feed rate at 4 and the Temp Dial set at 3. The Distribution Fan comes on full speed for a while then shuts off. From everything I read in Stove Temp Mode with a setting below 5 the Distribution Fan isn't supposed to come on. What did we learn from this test? I'm at a loss to understand this one. Auger just ran for about 6 seconds, as soon as it shut off the Distribution fan came on full force. This sequence just keeps repeating itself where the auger might run for 5 or 6 seconds a couple of times and then the Dist. Fan comes on full force runs for awhile, shuts off completely stays like that through a couple of feeder cycles and then the process repeats. No igniter light since it is in Manual. Small but steady fire in burn pot with all the flames near the end of the auger, not further out on the burn pot.

First of all right after start up you probably are going to get a room fan with the large flame because the ESP senses enough heat it want to cool the stove down a bit. Even when you first switch over to stove temp manual and a lower setting of 3 for heat, the fan may cycle a few times till the actual temp of the stove settles down. However, this should not continue for any great length of time. For instance my P61 right now this minute is running in Stove Temp Manual 3 fan set to low and feed rate three. If I go over and turn the room temp fan up, nothing happens. It's basically heating with radiant heat right now, and at 34 deg outside my house will heat that way Ok. Much colder and I need to change something or let my oil heat kick in over night..

So what is causing your problem ? Hmmm. I have to think on that. My first thought being the code tripped before the stove ever got off the convection fan mode, I mean as usual with this problem now, that was running when the code set. It kind of fowled the test, we still don't know if it will not trip if the fan never came on.

I'm really surprised our resident by the name of Bioburner hasn't gotten in on this. He knows P68's pretty well..

 

[miteclipse]

did some more research and I'm still leaning towards the ESP and needing a red one, here's why:

Your original board, 3-20-05374, was replaced with 1-00-05886 (B5371A) so you have the right upgraded board. This board appears to have problems with the black ESP.

If you go here: http://www.amazon.com/Harman-Platinum-Control-Board-Shipping/dp/B00IA4T554
view the Q&A's, particularly this one (it says p61 but the main thing is to focus on the board response):

Question:
What are the dip switch settings to use this on a P61?
Answer:
The platinum control board here is not designed for the P61 non-auto ignition model- only the P61A auto ignition unit and other auto ignition models. There is a different circuit board for the regular P61. Part# 1-00-06142 - Let us know how we can assist. Thanks,
By esesstoves on September 30, 2015
It depends on your manufacture date and which ESP probe you have, settings are different depending on weather you have the red or black probe. The board comes with directions for setting it up for each stove, just make sure to check the color of the wires on your probe and read the notes on the bottom before setting to the default setting listed for your stove. Also there are a few comments about this board not working properly with the black wired ESP probe, I skipped any potential issues by replacing my black wire ESP probe with a red wire probe, and setting the switches accordingly. Hope this answers any questions
By Joshua W. on September 30, 2015

 

[Rockin C&M Wyoming]

did some more research and I'm still leaning towards the ESP and needing a red one, here's why:

Your original board, 3-20-05374, was replaced with 1-00-05886 (B5371A) so you have the right upgraded board. This board appears to have problems with the black ESP.

If you go here: http://www.amazon.com/Harman-Platinum-Control-Board-Shipping/dp/B00IA4T554
view the Q&A's, particularly this one (it says p61 but the main thing is to focus on the board response):

Question:
What are the dip switch settings to use this on a P61?
Answer:
The platinum control board here is not designed for the P61 non-auto ignition model- only the P61A auto ignition unit and other auto ignition models. There is a different circuit board for the regular P61. Part# 1-00-06142 - Let us know how we can assist. Thanks,
By esesstoves on September 30, 2015
It depends on your manufacture date and which ESP probe you have, settings are different depending on weather you have the red or black probe. The board comes with directions for setting it up for each stove, just make sure to check the color of the wires on your probe and read the notes on the bottom before setting to the default setting listed for your stove. Also there are a few comments about this board not working properly with the black wired ESP probe, I skipped any potential issues by replacing my black wire ESP probe with a red wire probe, and setting the switches accordingly. Hope this answers any questions
By Joshua W. on September 30, 2015

Miteclipse, thanks for your research. I checked both the links and read it all except I could not fine any "info/drawings" of the various dip switch settings for various conditions. Since I have the upgraded "red wire compatible" circuit board I am going to order a Red Wire ESP. Can you tell me if I will have to drill the ESP hole larger based on something I read somewhere else. The other "concern" I have is there are two different augers, one with a 4 RPM speed and the other with a 6 RPM speed. I'll assume the 4 RPM auger motor I have is the older one and replaced with the 6 RPM model. Anyone Know?

I sent an email to the guy I bought the stove from and he said everything worked fine right up to the day he unplugged it for the propane unit. He had the stove upgraded with the new circuit board and a new igniter when he was having auto light problems.

Today I will order the red replacement ESP and I'm going to check every wire on the back of the stove to make sure nothing loosened up in its trip from Evanston Wyoming to our home in Star Valley about 100 miles in the back of my Ram truck. I've been running (testing) the stove with all the access/safety panels off the back and the wife mentioned it is louder then she expected. Does the unit quiet down a little with the panels installed and are there any suggestions for steps to quiet motors down.... lubing, insulating? When WE get this Problem resolved I want to have a celebration toast with everyone who contributed to the information and diagnosis of this issue. Keeping my fingers crossed that ordering the Red Wired ESP and changing the DIP Switch setting will fix itbut I'm not too confident since the previous owner said everything was working fine with the newer circuit board and the black wired ESP. Happy Thanksgiving

 

[alternativeheat]

To my knowledge the 4 RPM motor goes to a chain drive P68 auger system. But that's about all I know .
If you come up with good sound deadening let us know. The p series Harmans are not the quietest beasts but it will be a bit quieter with the covers on..

And Happy Thanksgiving to you as well !

 

[Rockin C&M Wyoming]

I decided to check all connections behind the stove and checked everything going into the circuit board. Two wires from the room sensor OK, wire harness connection to circuit board OK, ESP black wire to circuit board OK, all the component to wire harness OK. I fired up the stove again to see if my wiggling "stuff" fixed anything......... Stove fired up just as I would expect but then after a few minutes it threw the 3 blink error again. I put my finger on the Distribution Fan motor and noticed it was very warm, bordering on hot after just few minutes of running. I noticed the label said it has Thermal Protection so not worried about the temperature if it has some sort of protection from excessive heat. Photo attached of that motor and label.

 

[Golfeur]

In test mode the distribution fan operates normally and you constantly

 

[Funnydirt14]

To my knowledge the 4 RPM motor goes to a chain drive P68 auger system. But that's about all I know .
If you come up with good sound deadening let us know. The p series Harmans are not the quietest beasts but it will be a bit quieter with the covers on..

And Happy Thanksgiving to you as well !

The pre- 008280309 P68 which you have had the 4 rpm motor. The post- 008280309 P68 has the 6 rpm motor. My stove does not have a chain drive for the auger. I have a 2006 P68 with the 4 rpm motor. At the beginning of this year I replaced the circuit board with the updated version board and changed the dip switches to 1,2 on, 3,4,5 off, 6,7,8 on. I have the black ESP wire and my stove works fine. My instructions with the new circuit board states the Dipswitch #5 is for ESP type. This switch will need to be OFF with any ESP other than Red. So according to the previous post's he has the dipswitches set correctly the same as mine.

 

[Rockin C&M Wyoming]

The pre- 008280309 P68 which you have had the 4 rpm motor. The post- 008280309 P68 has the 6 rpm motor. My stove does not have a chain drive for the auger. I have a 2006 P68 with the 4 rpm motor. At the beginning of this year I replaced the circuit board with the updated version board and changed the dip switches to 1,2 on, 3,4,5 off, 6,7,8 on. I have the black ESP wire and my stove works fine. My instructions with the new circuit board states the Dipswitch #5 is for ESP type. This switch will need to be OFF with any ESP other than Red. So according to the previous post's he has the dipswitches set correctly the same as mine.

Howdy Funnydirt. In another life I was raised and lived in Allentown Pa for 30 some years. Retired here in Wyoming in 2002 and love it. I have heard about "chain drive auger" several times which I'm confused about. My 4 RPM motor doesn't have an "exposed" chain of any sort. Does that chain drive live inside the casing behind the motor? Since you updated your circuit board to the later version and you have the Black Wired ESP and our dip switch settings are the same I don't know why my unit isn't working correctly. Someone said even though I replaced the ESP with a new black wired unit it might still be bad. The swap did let the Distribution Fan operate at times without it in test mode but as you have seen in the threads it still is throwing a 3 blink (ESP bad) error. If I'm looking at the Auger Drive Motor in the three attached photos correctly and it is a "chain drive" is the chain encased in the thin metal box behind the fan and motor? What a learning experience I am going through.

 

[Bioburner]

Heres a copy of the dip switch settings that came with a new board last fall. We will try and get them set right and go from there.
Somehow this didn't post last night
I would be concerned about the fan motor getting hot that quick

 

[Funnydirt14]

There is no chain on our stoves. I think someone has ours stoves confused with another model of Harman. And off the top of my head I don't know what models they were, but anyhow it's not our model. I looked at my circuit board part # 3-20-05886E which is the new revision. There was a sticker on the back of the circuit board with this #. I'm not positive, but I think the only thing that was updated on these board from the old boards was the feature where if you are using a UPS back-up for power outages, the new board senses a power loss if your power goes out and starts shut down procedure of the stove. While shutting down the stove will run the fans until your UPS runs out of back up power, which is normally 45 mins. to an hour.

 

[Funnydirt14]

Heres a copy of the dip switch settings that came with a new board last fall. We will try and get them set right and go from there.
Somehow this didn't post last night
I would be concerned about the fan motor getting hot that quick

Bioburner, They are the same instruction I received with my new board.

 

[Golfeur]

I think the p series of models harman there has never been a drive chain is another model of harman who has already had a training harman advance system, harman Accentra or xxv remember which one