Goodbye to EPA exempt woodstoves

[bholler]

If you are making the discussion that innovation does not happen without regulation, you would have a tough time proving that. Competition above all drives innovation and improvements. 50 years of materials science and engineering is not from regulation. People want cleaner and safer cars.

I never said no innovation would happen with out regulation that absolutely is not true. But cant you admit that the regulation on stoves have greatly improved the function of our stoves? And the same for our cars. I am sure some innovation would have happened without that regulation but it would have been much slower and less complete.

 

[Jazzberry]

Different when the focus is on profit vs whats best for the consumer. You thinking they would make products that are best for the consumer if it cost them more without a fight? Dream on. Too much Rush Limbaugh is bad for the brain.

 

[bholler]

Also that $250,000 number is extremely misleading. It covers all tax incentives given to gm and all of the companies that supply parts for the volt. So a company that supplies a $1 switch for the car would have its total incentive package added to that total. I don't agree with those tax incentives but that is a different argument. And $250,000 is greatly exaggerated.

 

[sportbikerider78]

I never said no innovation would happen with out regulation that absolutely is not true. But cant you admit that the regulation on stoves have greatly improved the function of our stoves? And the same for our cars. I am sure some innovation would have happened without that regulation but it would have been much slower and less complete.

I really don't know. I know cars, but am new to stoves.
If the manufacturers were focusing on cost, appearance, efficiency,,,ect instead of emissions, I'm not sure what would have come out of it.

 

[bholler]

I really don't know. I know cars, but am new to stoves.
If the manufacturers were focusing on cost, appearance, efficiency,,,ect instead of emissions, I'm not sure what would have come out of it.

Well in stoves efficiency and emissions are just about the same thing. By burning up more of the potential fuel in the wood you reduce emissions. And since you know cars aren't the newer more efficient cars developed to meet the efficiency standards better in most ways? Yes there are some trade offs but over all they are better cars all around. And most stove companies are and always have been heavily influenced by cost and and or appearance.

 

[begreen]

This is interesting but not about the end of epa exempt stoves.

Back on topic, I see the listings now saying "call us" on Vogelzang's site for the boxwood. Good riddance.

 

[bholler]

This is interesting but not about the end of epa exempt stoves.

Back on topic, I see the listings now saying "call us" on Vogelzang's site for the boxwood. Good riddance.

I thought this would have been locked by now lol. But yes i will be very happy if they are forced to stop selling that pos.

 

[sportbikerider78]

Well in stoves efficiency and emissions are just about the same thing. By burning up more of the potential fuel in the wood you reduce emissions. And since you know cars aren't the newer more efficient cars developed to meet the efficiency standards better in most ways? Yes there are some trade offs but over all they are better cars all around. And most stove companies are and always have been heavily influenced by cost and and or appearance.

Well, sure they are. My 2006 Acura runs perfectly with 107k miles on it! It's an awesome car.
Yes, smog and the really dangerous lead emissions were a big issue...especially in places like LA which have high population density and topographical issues where you don't get wind to push pollution away.
We can certainly agree stoves and cars are better. We just disagree on the best way to get there.

 

[begreen]

And there you have it.