Getting a new saw for this year

[WoodyIsGoody]

The pro saw re builders/porters that i follow recommend 32:1 for their rebuilt/ported saws.
HL Supply recommend 40:1 for their piston/cylinder kits.

We're not talking about a saw with an aftermarket cylinder/piston or a saw that's been modified to make more power.

We're talking about a brand new pro-level saw, bone stock.

If you want to learn more about this subject from a family run pro saw shop serving logging crews for over 50 years check this out:

(broken link removed to http://www.madsens1.com/saw_fuelmix.htm)

Because with the tens of thousands of saws they've sold, rebuilt and repaired, they've seen it all. And if anyone knows more than the manufacturer, it's them. Oh, wait, they recommend the same mixture the manufacturer does! Maybe this EPA conspiracy is bigger than we thought! 'Cause everyone knows the EPA is bought and paid for by the saw makers (who obviously want you to buy a new saw every year).

My 026 may be small and overworked but, as my only saw for 20 years, all its ever seen is 50:1. Still runs like new. But you can dump extra oil in your gas tank if you want. Just know that it'll make more power at 50:1 than 35:1.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

I'm tired just reading about all the hard work that is required burning wood processed from trees that require such big saws. It's slower to slog through the occasional tree I come across that requires coming at it from two sides with the 20" bar (55cc husky), but it's all I can handle once it's cut into rounds. I'll rent a saw if I need a 90cc monster. That saw must be heavy to operate, the rounds almost impossible to move around once cut. Not that I don't admire those who do it, but I'm too old and lazy for all that!

 

[Dairyman]

We're not talking about a saw with an aftermarket cylinder/piston or a saw that's been modified to make more power.

We're talking about a brand new pro-level saw, bone stock.

If you want to learn more about this subject from a family run pro saw shop serving logging crews for over 50 years check this out:

(broken link removed to http://www.madsens1.com/saw_fuelmix.htm)

Because with the tens of thousands of saws they've sold, rebuilt and repaired, they've seen it all. And if anyone knows more than the manufacturer, it's them. Oh, wait, they recommend the same mixture the manufacturer does! Maybe this EPA conspiracy is bigger than we thought! 'Cause everyone knows the EPA is bought and paid for by the saw makers (who obviously want you to buy a new saw every year).

My 026 may be small and overworked but, as my only saw for 20 years, all its ever seen is 50:1. Still runs like new. But you can dump extra oil in your gas tank if you want. Just know that it'll make more power at 50:1 than 35:1.

Meh... madsens is a dealer therefore required to tow the company line. Stihl & husqvarna default to 32:1 when not useing their oil. Quite the sales gimmick.

390's are known for some bottom end bearing issues. More oil is a good idea here.

 

[blades]

Saw are set at factory for 50 :1 even then they tend to be set kinda lean ( witness reports of new saws burning up) That said , to use heavy oil mix retune saw because that heavy oil mix also causes an excessive lean condition which translates into excessive heat, scored cylinders and the like.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

I'm just gonna use 40 to 1 on everything and not think about it again.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Saw are set at factory for 50 :1 even then they tend to be set kinda lean ( witness reports of new saws burning up) That said , to use heavy oil mix retune saw because that heavy oil mix also causes an excessive lean condition which translates into excessive heat, scored cylinders and the like.

That's true. And new saws have a very limited ability to adjust them richer without mods. I don't want to think that hard so I just follow the manufacturers direction. Works great!

Actually, I did burn up a saw once back in the 1970's. It was a little Poulan that called for 16:1 (if you can believe that!). So I followed the instructions but it seized anyway. I guess I shoulda been running 10:1

 

[salecker]

That's true. And new saws have a very limited ability to adjust them richer without mods. I don't want to think that hard so I just follow the manufacturers direction. Works great!

Actually, I did burn up a saw once back in the 1970's. It was a little Poulan that called for 16:1 (if you can believe that!). So I followed the instructions but it seized anyway. I guess I shoulda been running 10:1

Na sounds like you weren't thinking and should have maintained the saw.But by the sounds of it you learned how to look after a saw and maybe learned how the sharpen the chain.
After all you just mentioned that you don't like to think hard

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Na sounds like you weren't thinking and should have maintained the saw.But by the sounds of it you learned how to look after a saw and maybe learned how the sharpen the chain.

Sure, chain sharpening and tuning are important skills to have and everyone has to start somewhere.

But I hope you realize a dull chain puts less load on an engine than a sharp chain. Even with a sharp chain you hit peak cutting speed with the motor fully loaded. In other words, dull chains don't cause engine seizures any more than running the recommended oil ratios. If a piston gets too hot to fit in the bore, all the oil in the world is not gonna save it. And crank bearing failures are caused by either running too lean (over-revving under no load) or detonation (too low of octane or carbon deposits). Too much oil makes the mixture burn leaner AND reduces octane.

So you're not doing your saw any favors by dumping extra oil in there. For long service life, just run high quality oil, fresh gas and mix it accurately.

 

[salecker]

Sure, chain sharpening and tuning are important skills to have and everyone has to start somewhere.

But I hope you realize a dull chain puts less load on an engine than a sharp chain. Even with a sharp chain you hit peak cutting speed with the motor fully loaded. In other words, dull chains don't cause engine seizures any more than running the recommended oil ratios. If a piston gets too hot to fit in the bore, all the oil in the world is not gonna save it. And crank bearing failures are caused by either running too lean (over-revving under no load) or detonation (too low of octane or carbon deposits). Too much oil makes the mixture burn leaner AND reduces octane.

So you're not doing your saw any favors by dumping extra oil in there. For long service life, just run high quality oil, fresh gas and mix it accurately.

The saw re-builders/porters that i was referring to will actually will rebuild your saw to stock specs,if that is what you want,and still recommend more oil.
I will disagree with your theory of a dull chain being easier on a saw than a sharp chain.I have seen the results of a dull chain,epa restictors and i would guess 50:1 oil many times.I wrote about a Husky 455 that i got from a dealers bone pile.Almost new looking with a service note"sharpen chain" and a tech's note "piston scored".
The saw was covered in fine sawdust the air filter was plugged with said fine dust.The piston and cylinder were scored the chain that was on it didn't have a sharp edge on it.All the cutters were like little hammers pounding there way through the wood.I am sure that the owner was pushing down for all he was worth as the saw slowly died in his hands.I still have the chain,it wasn't worth trying to use it.
And a modded saw will run cooler than a stock saw,the reason being when you take out the restrictions from the muffler,and open up and smooth the passages for the air that goes through the saw everything flows better getting the heat out of the saw and fresh cool air with lots of fuel and oil in,faster than any new stock saw.
The only way running more oil could make a lean mixture is if you don't know how to tune a saw.Once tuned for your mix there is no leaning out because there is a teaspoon more oil in your mixture.
Now the dull chain again...Sharp chain saw running wide open will cut through a log in seconds,same log with a dull chain will take 3-4 times as long if not more,now the saw is running wide open for minutes as it is ingesting fine dust into the intake system.Good filtration will stop it in the filter,plugging the filter causing a lean condition while the saw is running wide open for minutes.Bad filtration will allow the fine dust into the engine causing piston damage after a while.Not to mention the shock of all the cutters bouncing off the wood instead slicing through the wood as designed.Lowering your rakers to far will create a grabby chain which is hard on bearings as well.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

You make a lot of points here. I'm the kind of person who says what I mean, and mean what I say so I don't like to communicate using "muddy" thinking. So it's probably better to address your points one at a time.

The saw re-builders/porters that i was referring to will actually will rebuild your saw to stock specs,if that is what you want,and still recommend more oil.

I don't deny that "saw builders" often recommend more oil than the people who actually build the saw. That's not surprising. You don't need any credentials to become a "saw builder". Anyone can do it and they all claim they know what they are doing. Few do, most just go on heresay and seat-of-the-pants, not actual lab testing of hundreds or thousands of saws. In my experience "saw builders" tend to have a pretty high opinion of their abilities and generally don't like to take responsibility for their screw ups. Before modern manufacturing brought consistency and high precision tolerances to saw making, saws would run as much as 16:1 fuel/oil. A precision made saw doesn't benefit from that much oil, it is actually harmed by it. But if the design or manufacture of an individual saw has issues, they might be covered up, at least for a period of time, by fuel diluted with additional oil. Because diluting the fuel with oil reduces power and makes less heat. But a stock pro saw is designed and tested to dissipate the heat of it's full rated power and doesn't need to be "de-rated" by diluting the fuel.

I will disagree with your theory of a dull chain being easier on a saw than a sharp chain.

Well, that's not what I said. But I will concede that, obviously, a sharp chain works the saw less, but only for a given amount of work accomplished. At any given moment, a sharp chain will consume more horsepower with less pressure on the bar. Because a dull chain can't get good "bite" on the wood. Watch the famous video of the chainsaw nun.

I have seen the results of a dull chain,epa restictors and i would guess 50:1 oil many times.I wrote about a Husky 455 that i got from a dealers bone pile.Almost new looking with a service note"sharpen chain" and a tech's note "piston scored".
The saw was covered in fine sawdust the air filter was plugged with said fine dust.The piston and cylinder were scored the chain that was on it didn't have a sharp edge on it.

A dull chain makes dust, not chips. Dust coats the engine and creates excessive localized heat which destroys engines. Extra oil will not prevent localized hot spots from destroying the engine. Extra oil can cause the failure to happen sooner because, when things get that hot, there is more oil to carbonize. Bad things happen when temperatures rise past what the oil can withstand and more oil can exacerbate the problem of high heat, not mitigate it.

And a modded saw will run cooler than a stock saw,the reason being when you take out the restrictions from the muffler,and open up and smooth the passages for the air that goes through the saw everything flows better getting the heat out of the saw and fresh cool air with lots of fuel and oil in,faster than any new stock saw.

I was not debating modded vs. stock, it's a discussion about the best oil ratio to use in a stock pro saw.

The only way running more oil could make a lean mixture is if you don't know how to tune a saw.Once tuned for your mix there is no leaning out because there is a teaspoon more oil in your mixture.

The big complaint from these backwoods "engine builders" is the stock saw is too lean and the carb doesn't have enough adjustment to fix that. That's because they are running 30 or 40 to one mixtures, that causes the stock saw to run lean. But they are too smart to see that. So, if it's already too lean, why would you dilute that fuel with additional oil? More oil reduces the octane of the fuel while simultaneously making the fuel burn even more lean. That's two reasons why more oil in the gas can shorten the life of a stock saw.

Now the dull chain again...Sharp chain saw running wide open will cut through a log in seconds,same log with a dull chain will take 3-4 times as long if not more,now the saw is running wide open for minutes as it is ingesting fine dust into the intake system.Good filtration will stop it in the filter,plugging the filter causing a lean condition while the saw is running wide open for minutes.

You are sadly mistaken about that. Lean = too much air. Rich = too much fuel. A plugged air filter will reduce the amount of air that can be injested and thus reduce power (which also means less heat). It will not make a saw run lean!

Bad filtration will allow the fine dust into the engine causing piston damage after a while.

Well, yeah, bad air filtration is...., well bad. I'm not in favor of bad air filtration so I guess I'm not seeing whatever point you are attempting to make. More oil isn't the answer, good filtration is. Modern pro saws have excellent filtration anyway. So why is this even a point of discussion?

Not to mention the shock of all the cutters bouncing off the wood instead slicing through the wood as designed.Lowering your rakers to far will create a grabby chain which is hard on bearings as well.

I didn't say a dull chain was not a terrible thing, I said a dull chain can't load an engine any more than a sharp chain. Both dull and sharp chains can fully load an engine, you just have to apply more pressure to the dull chain to achieve the same engine load.

I think I know how to take care of a saw, I've been using the same saw for 20 years and it makes as much power now as it did when it was only 5 years old. No back-up saw in the rotation, 100% reliability (except for a split fuel line) that's 20 years of annual cutting, storm clean-up, felling of dead/diseased trees and bucking big wood. All it's ever seen is 50:1 and I've run it continuously and hard without having to slow down for over-heating or other issues. Since it's only 50cc it's often working at peak output. So I laugh at people who dump extra oil in their gas and then wonder why their engine burned up in 5 years.

Not only that, I drink/drank beer with local professional loggers (including a couple of ex-loggers who each run their own tree service now). Whenever I meet a new pro and have a discussion I always ask about their work. They depend upon their saws everyday. And I ask them what mix they run. They have all said they run 50:1 these days. Some of them were around when the mix was 40:1 or more (oil) but they all run 50:1 now. That's how good modern pro saws are. They are engineered around 50:1. More oil makes them leaner, reduces the octane and increases carbon deposits over time. If you use your saw a lot, this can become an issue.

 

[salecker]

You make a lot of points here. I'm the kind of person who says what I mean, and mean what I say so I don't like to communicate using "muddy" thinking. So it's probably better to address your points one at a time.



I don't deny that "saw builders" often recommend more oil than the people who actually build the saw. That's not surprising. You don't need any credentials to become a "saw builder". Anyone can do it and they all claim they know what they are doing. Few do, most just go on heresay and seat-of-the-pants, not actual lab testing of hundreds or thousands of saws. In my experience "saw builders" tend to have a pretty high opinion of their abilities and generally don't like to take responsibility for their screw ups. Before modern manufacturing brought consistency and high precision tolerances to saw making, saws would run as much as 16:1 fuel/oil. A precision made saw doesn't benefit from that much oil, it is actually harmed by it. But if the design or manufacture of an individual saw has issues, they might be covered up, at least for a period of time, by fuel diluted with additional oil. Because diluting the fuel with oil reduces power and makes less heat. But a stock pro saw is designed and tested to dissipate the heat of it's full rated power and doesn't need to be "de-rated" by diluting the fuel.

To clarify i am not talking about backyard wrenchers when i say saw re builders.These are people that depend on their shops for their living.Many have been trained by Stihl or Husquvarna and have started businesses of their own,with very high customer satisfaction and take full responsibility for saws that have issues.Even times when it has nothing to do with work done on the saw.
And you havn't shared any special training you have with us.So what makes you an expert on what engineers have done.Seems like hearsay and you talking out of the seat of your pants.






A dull chain makes dust, not chips. Dust coats the engine and creates excessive localized heat which destroys engines. Extra oil will not prevent localized hot spots from destroying the engine. Extra oil can cause the failure to happen sooner because, when things get that hot, there is more oil to carbonize. Bad things happen when temperatures rise past what the oil can withstand and more oil can exacerbate the problem of high heat, not mitigate it.

I never mentioned chips because i was talking about a dull chain.


I was not debating modded vs. stock, it's a discussion about the best oil ratio to use in a stock pro saw.



The big complaint from these backwoods "engine builders" is the stock saw is too lean and the carb doesn't have enough adjustment to fix that. That's because they are running 30 or 40 to one mixtures, that causes the stock saw to run lean. But they are too smart to see that. So, if it's already too lean, why would you dilute that fuel with additional oil? More oil reduces the octane of the fuel while simultaneously making the fuel burn even more lean. That's two reasons why more oil in the gas can shorten the life of a stock saw.

Again i am not talking about backwood builders,i don't associate with people that do that kind of work.The rebuilders /modifiers that i am talking about know how to take the limiters of of carbs so they are fully adjustable to tune properly for the saw.
With your untrained theory of less oil is better why don't you run 100:1 that should be twice as good as what you do now?The oil company's claim it's safe and will stand behind their oil.


You are sadly mistaken about that. Lean = too much air. Rich = too much fuel. A plugged air filter will reduce the amount of air that can be injested and thus reduce power (which also means less heat). It will not make a saw run lean!

Again your lack of understanding the principles of a 2 stoke is showing.The fuel is pulled through a variable jet by the air going through the carburetor body.Less air through a dirty filter = less gas and less oil


Well, yeah, bad air filtration is...., well bad. I'm not in favor of bad air filtration so I guess I'm not seeing whatever point you are attempting to make. More oil isn't the answer, good filtration is. Modern pro saws have excellent filtration anyway. So why is this even a point of discussion?

Not all pro saws have good air filtration,some just don't have the same quality as others.



I didn't say a dull chain was not a terrible thing, I said a dull chain can't load an engine any more than a sharp chain. Both dull and sharp chains can fully load an engine, you just have to apply more pressure to the dull chain to achieve the same engine load.

I think I know how to take care of a saw, I've been using the same saw for 20 years and it makes as much power now as it did when it was only 5 years old. No back-up saw in the rotation, 100% reliability (except for a split fuel line) that's 20 years of annual cutting, storm clean-up, felling of dead/diseased trees and bucking big wood. All it's ever seen is 50:1 and I've run it continuously and hard without having to slow down for over-heating or other issues. Since it's only 50cc it's often working at peak output. So I laugh at people who dump extra oil in their gas and then wonder why their engine burned up in 5 years.

You mentioned burning up a saw...
Something i have yet to do.I parked my Dads 026 when it wouldn't tune right,fuel line was melted almost closed.It wouldn't tune on the high speed.It would still run but was super lean WOT.Not getting enough gas oil mix.
I parked my ms260 this fall wouldn't tune properly after servicing it to go cut wood.The revs would change after it was tuned,when i would go to cut on it's side,bad seal i am assuming.

Not only that, I drink/drank beer with local professional loggers (including a couple of ex-loggers who each run their own tree service now). Whenever I meet a new pro and have a discussion I always ask about their work. They depend upon their saws everyday. And I ask them what mix they run. They have all said they run 50:1 these days. Some of them were around when the mix was 40:1 or more (oil) but they all run 50:1 now. That's how good modern pro saws are. They are engineered around 50:1. More oil makes them leaner, reduces the octane and increases carbon deposits over time. If you use your saw a lot, this can become an issue.

I remember when i used to drink,all the drunk professionals always had the fastest cars,shot the biggest moose,caught the biggest fish,get the best fuel mileage from their diesels,one guy's diesel was so fuel efficiency he had to remove fuel every day otherwise the tank would overflow.Oh yea and everyone always leaves with a fox and wakes up with a dog.

Anyhow just like you i believe i am giving out sound advice.I am hoping that people reading this will take the initiative and do more research and reading to make up their minds.There are a couple of chainsaw sites that have lot's of information and members that have way more knowledge and experience than i do.And probably more than you.
Try Arboristsite or OPE which is Outdoor Power Equipment. These are sites that concentrate on chainsaws and stuff around them,unlike this site that is about heating your home.

Or just follow the sheepeople and do what the EPA and guberment wants you to.

Sorry everyone or anyone that is following this conversation.I am not computer gifted so some of my responses are embedded in Woodys quote.

 

[Ashful]

I'm tired just reading about all the hard work that is required burning wood processed from trees that require such big saws. It's slower to slog through the occasional tree I come across that requires coming at it from two sides with the 20" bar (55cc husky), but it's all I can handle once it's cut into rounds. I'll rent a saw if I need a 90cc monster. That saw must be heavy to operate, the rounds almost impossible to move around once cut. Not that I don't admire those who do it, but I'm too old and lazy for all that!

Ed, you need to come out cutting with me. My 85cc saw is all I use, 95% of the time. Even my buddy with a 441 can't believe how damn fast that saw plows off the rounds.

I also have a 63cc Stihl 036 Pro, but it's just too small to be of much appeal, when it's sitting there right next to an 064 AV. Their weight isn't all that different, but their HP difference is very noticeable.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Ed, you need to come out cutting with me. My 85cc saw is all I use, 95% of the time. Even my buddy with a 441 can't believe how damn fast that saw plows off the rounds.

I also have a 63cc Stihl 036 Pro, but it's just too small to be of much appeal, when it's sitting there right next to an 064 AV. Their weight isn't all that different, but their HP difference is very noticeable.

I was thinking about you when I was thumbing this. You have a pretty unique sitiation with your farmer friend and all those giant logs. My enthusiasm wanes when I have to work and think so hard. But, like I said before, I admire you folks who scoff at such herculean challenges. I'll just enjoy reading about it, pictures are a bonus, with a beer in my other hand!

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Or just follow the sheepeople and do what the EPA and guberment wants you to.

The EPA doesn't know jack about chainsaws compared to those who engineer, build and service them. And your belief that a plugged air filter makes a saw run more lean proves you don't know much about chainsaws either. I'm not trying to be mean here, I'm just stating what is obvious to everyone who knows chainsaws. If you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe the guys who take care of more west coast loggers than anyone else, Madsen's Saw Shop:

When a plugged filter isn't cleaned or changed, many saws run poorly. They develop rich running conditions as a result of low air flow and the choking effect caused by low pressure in the throat of the carburetor. When air flow is reduced by the filter, most carburetors do the opposite of what they should; they increase the amount of fuel that enters the air stream.

(broken link removed to http://www.madsens1.com/saw_filter.htm)

Oh, wait, them are the same know-nothings in the pocket of the guberment who say a saw runs best and is most reliable on a high quality oil run 50:1. Of course you're not going to believe those bozos who deal with pro loggers every day. Just for you, I'll find some other sources:

• (1) Check the air filter and clean it if necessary. Adjusting the carburetor with the air filter partially clogged is like adjusting the carburetor with the choke partially on. If you adjust your saw with a dirty air filter, the saw will run too lean when the filter is cleaned.

https://store.chainsawr.com/blogs/t...djustment-and-tuning-of-a-chainsaw-carburetor

Chuck is right, if you have a clogged air filter that passes little air. You will pull a higher level of vacuum which increase your fuel flow. At idle, the increase in extra fuel will be much smaller than at WOT because of the smaller demand in air flow.

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/lean-or-rich.49397/

One thing you are right about is that with a quality chainsaw oil, modern pro saws will run just fine on 100:1 with no damage or accelerated wear. I don't do that because the manufacturer of my saws recommends 50:1. And I trust they know what they are talking about. I also trust my own experience because I've been running 50:1 for over 20 years without a problem. And I trust the guys at Madsen's Saw Shop who have more combined experience than just about anyone other than the manufacturer. They strongly recommend not adding extra oil to your gas. It would be one thing if they begrudgingly towed the Stihl and Husqvarna company line and reluctantly recommended 50:1 with a nod and a wink, but they don't do that. They specifically caution against adding more than 50:1 and they provide their reasons for that, reasons backed up by their inspection of literally thousands and thousands of saws used in all manner. What you don't understand about that is beyond my comprehension. It appears you believe the world is one giant conspiracy to get you to buy less oil than your saw needs for a long and reliable service life? It makes no sense.

 

[salecker]

I am not trying to convert you there are things that would need to be pulled out of things before that could happen.
Opinions are like a$$holes everyone has one.
I am just trying to open peoples eyes so they know there is an alternative to the guberment line of BS.
Most people are intelligent enough to make up their own mind when reading information.Others follow the sheepeople.
Like i said there is lots of independent sources of information on the interwebs,i mentioned 2 major chainsaw forums that have numerous oil threads. So if anyone is really interested in finding out the pro's and con's of running100:1 to 16:1 mixes there is no shortage of info.
I buy a lot of saws.Some are modern and i fix them to sell so i can buy old ones that i hoard.
I can take an old saw that was run on 16:1 clean the fuel system and if it has spark they will run unless they have mechanical issues.I have saws built in the 50's that have come back to life after sitting for 30 yrs.
Take a modern saw with 50:1 mix and ethanol laced gas toss it in a pile outside and wait 30 yrs.I would bet my hoard that the chances of getting that saw running will be slim to none without a teardown and rebuild.There will not be any oil film left to protect the bearings,ethanol will have the fuel system destroyed.
Anyhow have been using gas,diesel,2 stroke 4 stroke engines since i built my first dune buggy with my dad at 12 yrs old.The only engine that i ever had a failure with is a 6.5L Diesel in my tow truck.

This is not a chainsaw site,so there are no experts hanging around it to give expert advice,this isn't even a chainsaw room,so not really the place to look for real information.It's a room that is a catchall for things used to process firewood.
I plan on building a firewood processor someday,this is not where i will come to learn anything about them.I came to this site to learn about woodfired boilers.I read for about 3 months and scrapped the boiler i was going to buy.The EXPERTS in the boiler room showed me by reading their information that i was going to make a mistake.So i invested over 10K into a boiler because i did my research by reading up expert advice.I also built my complete heating system from things i learned in the boiler room and expert advice.It works great going into my 8th heating season with absolutely no concerns,I know that the day i decide to fire up the wood boiler all i have to do is turn on the power and build a fire.
And that is how i like to keep the things i depend on,chainsaws fall into that category.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

I am not trying to convert you there are things that would need to be pulled out of things before that could happen.

You're not trying to convert me to what? A brilliant saw engineer such as yourself?

Opinions are like a$$holes everyone has one.

Yes, that's why Internet oil threads always ramble on far too long. You would think normally intelligent people could figure out who the authority(s) on a given subject is, cite those authorities, and put the subjects to rest. But oil appears to be a slippery subject because every ass has an opinion and most are not supported by actual data but just this sense that the individual is so mechanical that they have an innate sense of how much oil is needed and are more knowledgeable than the actual builders who spent millions of dollars in R&D and have cold, hard data to back it up. These same manufacturers have warranty departments and they have to put their money where their mouth is.

I am just trying to open peoples eyes so they know there is an alternative to the guberment line of BS.

You are sadly mistaken. The "guberment" doesn't determine the recommended oil ratio, the manufacturer does. It seems with your type, everything is one big guberment grand conspiracy yet you never seem to know who the individuals are behind this grand conspiracy. Somehow the saws sold in Somalia have the same recommended ratio even though their government has no emission standards! Yes, the recommended ratio is 50:1 worldwide. I'm sure you see that as evidence of just how long the tentacles are of the US guberment, don't you? Or do you have a rational explanation? A little rationality would go a long way here.

Most people are intelligent enough to make up their own mind when reading information.Others follow the sheepeople.

This is good! If I'm smart I make up my mind based upon what a bunch of uneducated Internet know-it-alls determine via personal experience and if I'm stupid I put more weight in actual scientific testing, industry experts and manufacturers best recommendations. That's precious!

Like i said there is lots of independent sources of information on the interwebs,i mentioned 2 major chainsaw forums that have numerous oil threads. So if anyone is really interested in finding out the pro's and con's of running100:1 to 16:1 mixes there is no shortage of info.

You think I'm unaware of Internet oil threads? LOL! I agree there is plenty of independent viewpoints although calling it "information" might be stretching the definition of information. Another word might be better suited here. "Disinformation" comes to mind.

I buy a lot of saws.Some are modern and i fix them to sell so i can buy old ones that i hoard.
I can take an old saw that was run on 16:1 clean the fuel system and if it has spark they will run unless they have mechanical issues.I have saws built in the 50's that have come back to life after sitting for 30 yrs.

You buy a lot of saws? You fix them? You bring old saws back from the dead?

My apologies, I thought you were just another blathering Internet idiot who repeated old wives tales. I can now see how uniquely qualified you are to determine necessary fuel/oil ratios. Please accept my apologies and thank-you for clueing me in to this oil ratio conspiracy. From now on I'll mix my fuel 30:1 (or richer). I had no idea I was being bamboozled all these years. I guess I was just lucky that my saw has been so reliable and powerful.

Anyhow have been using gas,diesel,2 stroke 4 stroke engines since i built my first dune buggy with my dad at 12 yrs old.The only engine that i ever had a failure with is a 6.5L Diesel in my tow truck.

Wow! That's really good considering how stupid all the engineers were who designed those engines. Only one failure? You must really know your stuff. I bet you would have had a lot more failures if you had simply followed the manufacturer's recommendations! You must really have some good "pixie dust" in that brain of yours!

This is not a chainsaw site,so there are no experts hanging around it to give expert advice,this isn't even a chainsaw room,so not really the place to look for real information.It's a room that is a catchall for things used to process firewood.

Just because it's not a chainsaw specific site doesn't mean there are no experts here (and I can prove it). You're here! If that's not proof, I don't know what is. Because the resume you shared was certainly very impressive. Makes me feel like the idiot I am for listening to the silly manufacturer's and guys who service the saws for logging crews when we have guys like you around who can bring dead saws back to life. I salute you! I have trouble figuring out which hole the fuel goes in and which hole gets the oil. It must be nice to know people who can give you the "inside" information on things like what oil mix the manufacturer's would recommend if the EPA wasn't holding them hostage from Albania to Zimbabwe. I was so naïve to think the EPA only had jurisdiction within the US!

This has been a real eye-opener and I thank-you for having big enough balls to expose this global conspiracy.

 

[Ashful]

I can take an old saw that was run on 16:1 clean the fuel system and if it has spark they will run unless they have mechanical issues.I have saws built in the 50's that have come back to life after sitting for 30 yrs.
Take a modern saw with 50:1 mix and ethanol laced gas toss it in a pile outside and wait 30 yrs.I would bet my hoard that the chances of getting that saw running will be slim to none without a teardown and rebuild.There will not be any oil film left to protect the bearings,ethanol will have the fuel system destroyed...

This is not a chainsaw site,so there are no experts hanging around it to give expert advice,this isn't even a chainsaw room,so not really the place to look for real information.It's a room that is a catchall for things used to process firewood.

I can't argue with anything you say, here. But, I can wonder why on earth you'd want to actually use a 60 year old chainsaw for processing firewood. I won't deny the coolness and fun factors, but chainsaws of the 1950's aren't exactly praised for their safety, productivity, comfort, or power-to-weight ratio.

Likewise about today's saws. They may be junk in 30 years, but I won't care, because there will be better saws available to me then. Onward, and upward!

 

[Zack R]

Woah, late to the thread but quite the discussion.

Back to the original topic, I picked up a new to me Husqvarna 365 Special with a 20" Sugihara bar and brand new chain over the weekend. The original owner kept it clean and well kept, for a 17 year old saw it looks brand new. No plans to modify just yet, if needed at some point I can rebuild it to a 372XP spec.

Lets just say compared to the little Stihl MS211 I've been using this thing is a beast. All kinds of torque and cuts through wood so quickly you have to have an exit plan before you even start the cut. On the MS211 enough time went by on the larger logs that you could casually work through and there was no hurry.

This photo was from right before sundown and is blurry, I'll get another one up soon. I had just finished cutting and splitting a small load of logs and this thing definitely put a smile on my face.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Lets just say compared to the little Stihl MS211 I've been using this thing is a beast. All kinds of torque and cuts through wood so quickly you have to have an exit plan before you even start the cut. On the MS211 enough time went by on the larger logs that you could casually work through and there was no hurry.

Ha-ha! You're trying to compare a dinky 35 cc homeowner saw to a 65 cc pro saw? Yeah, the 65 cc pro saw cut's faster. A lot faster.

Who woulda thunk?

 

[Zack R]

Ha-ha! You're trying to compare a dinky 35 cc homeowner saw to a 65 cc pro saw? Yeah, the 65 cc pro saw cut's faster. A lot faster.

Who woulda thunk?

Haha no joke. I was just surprised how much of a difference there was. In either case now I have the little saw for limbing and the big saw for bucking.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

In either case now I have the little saw for limbing and the big saw for bucking.

That's a good combo.

 

[salecker]

I can't argue with anything you say, here. But, I can wonder why on earth you'd want to actually use a 60 year old chainsaw for processing firewood. I won't deny the coolness and fun factors, but chainsaws of the 1950's aren't exactly praised for their safety, productivity, comfort, or power-to-weight ratio.

Likewise about today's saws. They may be junk in 30 years, but I won't care, because there will be better saws available to me then. Onward, and upward!

Hi Ashful
I don't use the old saws.Just a hobby that keeps me relaxed and out of trouble.
I don't like to see tools thrown away,so i have always picked up saws at the dump.
Chainsaws are so simple to fix,that most free, cheap saws can be made usable with very little cost outlay.
The the big old saw bug hit me,the cool factor is that men used to take those 30 pound beasts and use them all day to make a living or heat their homes.
I had a friend that used to work for me,he gave me a Homelite 909 gear drive that he used when he was a teenager.
i will get it running to cut some wood for him as nostalgia.His hands are pretty crippled up now could have been the saw.
Big old saws are cool when they are chewing through wood,they were better than a crosscut saw,but don't have the creature comforts that the new stuff has.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Big old saws are cool when they are chewing through wood,they were better than a crosscut saw,but don't have the creature comforts that the new stuff has.

I'm not sure why big old saws are "cool" when chewing through wood? Those Homelite gear drives had very slow chain speeds, heavy, weak and inefficient 112 cc engines and I have 2 50cc saws that will beat them in cutting speed while not enveloping the operator in a cloud of carbon monoxide the size of a small herd of elephants.

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Poor guy should just buy a more modern 50cc saw and get some real work done! Better yet, use a good 65-75 cc saw and go though it like butter!

 

[Zack R]

I'm not sure why big old saws are "cool" when chewing through wood? Those Homelite gear drives had very slow chain speeds, heavy, weak and inefficient 112 cc engines and I have 2 50cc saws that will beat them in cutting speed while not enveloping the operator in a cloud of carbon monoxide the size of a small herd of elephants.

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Poor guy should just buy a more modern 50cc saw and get some real work done! Better yet, use a good 65-75 cc saw and go though it like butter!

There's an element of nostalgia to using the older equipment now and then. I don't think anyone is going to break their back running one of these day after day but it's fun to run the old machines once in a while especially if you used them when you were younger. The same reason folks tinker with old tractors, trucks, etc...

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

There's an element of nostalgia to using the older equipment now and then. I don't think anyone is going to break their back running one of these day after day but it's fun to run the old machines once in a while especially if you used them when you were younger. The same reason folks tinker with old tractors, trucks, etc...

I guess I'm not very nostalgic! I do appreciate their history but I don't need to muck about running them any more now that the new stuff is so much better.