Gasification Boiler in basement or Outdoors

[Eric Johnson]

I think the "anti-OWB" sentiment on this website is rooted in the fact that they burn a lot more wood and produce a lot of smoke, which most of us see as a public relations nightmare for those of who who like to burn clean. That said, I do a fair amount of driving around the Northeast, and some of the worst smoke problems I see originate in chimneys attached to houses. So there may be a natural bias against the woodburner you can see, vs. the one you can't.

But I want to reiterate my point about untested technologies, which is what most gasifying OWBs represent today. It's not that they don't work as advertised "out of the box," but that you may well encounter unanticipated problems a year or two into their use. The Blue Forge is a good example. Apparently, the refractory began to disintegrate after about a season of use, and there was no good/cheap way to fix the problem. And that was not a cheap boiler. I foresee similar problems with some of the "miracle" OWB gasifiers being marketed today. If you analyze their sales approach, most don't mention that you need very dry wood for them to work properly. That's something most indoor, Euro-style gasifiers are careful to mention in their sales literature. I think it's also telling that the major mfgrs. of indoor gasifers don't have viable OWB options. And it's not for lack of trying, considering the potential market.

So I'm urging caution and resisting what most of us perceived as your attempt to frame the discussion as nationalistic/class debate over the type of wood burner that most people on this forum tend to prefer. It's not about either one, as I've tried to explain in the two preceding paragraphs.

Anyway, USA-1, I hope you'll keep an open mind and do some research on this site before making a purchasing decision. I think most of the people here are telling it the way they see it. That's worth taking into consideration.

And, a belated welcome to the Boiler Room. Everyone is welcome here.

 

[Fred61]

You're going to have to try a little harder, USA-1, not to look like a shill or sales rep for one of the new gasifying OWBs. Because your current approach isn't getting you very far.

I'm all for gasifying OWBs--domestic- or foreign-made. I think it's the way to go for a lot of people if the bugs can be worked out. But I'm not laying out that much cash for what's basically an untested prototype. We have a number of members with gasifying OWBs, and if you do a search, you see that there have been some problems. If the mfg. stands by the product, fixes the problems under the warranty and learns something in the process, then everybody wins, IMO. But many of the OWB companies currently producing their versions of gasifiers have proven themselves in the past to be somewhat lacking in the after-the-sale support dept. (you can search that, too). Hence the skepticism for these "just as good but better 'cause they're made here" gasifying OWBs.

It's not like there aren't domestically-manufactured indoor gasifier options, so your point boils down to: an OWB is better. I guess that's a debatable point.

"HS Tarm Wood and Combination boilers, made in Denmark since the turn of the century, were first imported into the USA in 1977 by Tekton Corporation of Conway, MA. Tekton was starter by Walter Goodridge, who also was the first US importer of Lange Stoves.

HS Tarm became a large national brand in 1979 after being featured on the cover of Popular Mechanics Magazine. The country was in the midst of the second oil shock (1978-1980), and sales quicky became brisk with thousands of boilers being sold each year. In 1982 the company was sold to Alan Koenig with the base of operations remaining in Conway.

Sales declined along with the price of oil, and by 1988 the company was barely surviving. Alan Koening placed the company up for sale and it was purchased by Craig Issod, who much later would start this web site Hearth.com Background."

Eric, Thanks for your reply. No I'm not a shill or whatever, just a guy debating what kind of boiler to buy, and I was puzzled by the slant of this forum. Everyone I know locally who has OWBs loves them, including those who used woodstoves for years. So I spent days reading any posts on this site related to this because I'm interested. The posts are all pretty much ant-owb on this site, so that's the reason for my sarcasm.
But I see my instincts were correct from what I found and posted above. This explains it all. -GooseRider- feel free to hit your 'magic button' to make my posts dissapear, if you feel my post is a threat. At this point I'm still considering all my options and possibly may end up buying a Tarm- so please don't jump to conclusions.

I think you should buy an OWB so you can love it like all your friends do!

 

[Gooserider]

You're going to have to try a little harder, USA-1, not to look like a shill or sales rep for one of the new gasifying OWBs. Because your current approach isn't getting you very far.

I'm all for gasifying OWBs--domestic- or foreign-made. I think it's the way to go for a lot of people if the bugs can be worked out. But I'm not laying out that much cash for what's basically an untested prototype. We have a number of members with gasifying OWBs, and if you do a search, you see that there have been some problems. If the mfg. stands by the product, fixes the problems under the warranty and learns something in the process, then everybody wins, IMO. But many of the OWB companies currently producing their versions of gasifiers have proven themselves in the past to be somewhat lacking in the after-the-sale support dept. (you can search that, too). Hence the skepticism for these "just as good but better 'cause they're made here" gasifying OWBs.

It's not like there aren't domestically-manufactured indoor gasifier options, so your point boils down to: an OWB is better. I guess that's a debatable point.

"HS Tarm Wood and Combination boilers, made in Denmark since the turn of the century, were first imported into the USA in 1977 by Tekton Corporation of Conway, MA. Tekton was starter by Walter Goodridge, who also was the first US importer of Lange Stoves.

HS Tarm became a large national brand in 1979 after being featured on the cover of Popular Mechanics Magazine. The country was in the midst of the second oil shock (1978-1980), and sales quicky became brisk with thousands of boilers being sold each year. In 1982 the company was sold to Alan Koenig with the base of operations remaining in Conway.

Sales declined along with the price of oil, and by 1988 the company was barely surviving. Alan Koening placed the company up for sale and it was purchased by Craig Issod, who much later would start this web site Hearth.com Background."

Eric, Thanks for your reply. No I'm not a shill or whatever, just a guy debating what kind of boiler to buy, and I was puzzled by the slant of this forum. Everyone I know locally who has OWBs loves them, including those who used woodstoves for years. So I spent days reading any posts on this site related to this because I'm interested. The posts are all pretty much ant-owb on this site, so that's the reason for my sarcasm.
But I see my instincts were correct from what I found and posted above. This explains it all. -GooseRider- feel free to hit your 'magic button' to make my posts dissapear, if you feel my post is a threat. At this point I'm still considering all my options and possibly may end up buying a Tarm- so please don't jump to conclusions.

I would point out that far as I know, Craig who runs this site, no longer has any interest in Tarm, or any other boiler or stove company for that matter... While he has on occasion said nice things about some products, I have never seen any sign of favoritism towards any particular brands here. If anything he goes to great lengths to stay brand neutral, including not allowing heavy duty selling efforts by any of our many members that are in the industry one way or the other... It is one of our guidelines as moderators that we try to discourage overly hard pushing of any single solution to every problem - or otherwise "pimping" for a single outfit... This is a bit of a grey area, and we aren't perfect at it, but we try...

All I can say is that we have a great many happy owners of gasification boilers, including ones that have put them in out building type installations, and a fair number of current and former OWB owners that are NOT happy... (including several that used to own OWB's and switched to gassers, and have been happy about burning less wood and making less smoke) I haven't done a lot of price shopping, but it appears to me that there is not a huge difference in the cost for an OWB in it's little shed and a gasser and a custom built not over fancy shed to put it in - this is very much of a difficult thing to compare, since a lot of people build sheds that cover a lot more than just the boiler...

Another issue that I see is that many OWB's are really huge capacity - 500KBTU/hr or so which is often far larger than what is actually needed by most applications, but then they hook up with tubing that isn't adequate to transfer the heat output to the actual target building w/o using grossly oversized power hungry pumps - some of this is not the fault of the OWB itself, but it does seem to show a lack of good dealer training on the part of the OWB makers...

I personally suspect that at least some of the people who claim to be happy with their OWB's either don't have any basis for comparison to see what the alternatives are capable of, so they don't know that they SHOULD be unhappy. Others may not be happy, but aren't wiling to admit that they spent their money less than wisely...

Gooserider

 

[JMann]

Back to the original question...

After pouring over posts (last year), I decided to install mine in a our workshop (former detached 2 car garage). It did cost more but I'm happy with the decision for these reasons:

1. Wood dust, critters, and dirt are kept out of the house.
2. The learning curve has been tough for the first year resulting in a few instances where smoke filled the workshop not the house
3. Nice warm workshop

I would do it again if I had a second chance. The Seton is running well (can't compare it to anything else since it's my first wood furnace). I like it for the simple design and that there are not a lot of parts or electronics. Their manufacturing company (Bethel Engineering) has been great as well.