Frustrating night - (Update)

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

If it was only running okay with the choke on, that's classic crud in the carb. I'll bet that when you jostled the generator taking it from home to your friends some dirt got dislodged from somewhere and found it's way into the carb. If it's running off and on, I'd hit it with a dose of Techron or other good carb cleaner and run it.....I've had good luck going this route to avoid dismantling carbs if I can help it.

VERY fine piece of advice right there!! 'Specially when yer saying you're not that comfortable with the operation anyway Dave!

 

[dave11]

In my experience, when a fairly new small engine suddenly won't start or run, the problem is usually something straightforward. If you haven't been running it with an old or dirty fuel filter, its not likely you're going to get much crud in the fuel lines or carb, though I'm not saying it's impossible. A generator is not out in the field like a saw or mower, and the gas you put in it likely is pretty clean. So to say that you had dirty gas to start with, and that it got through the filter to cause this trouble, seems unlikely (but not impossible). That's not to say you don't have some other problem with the carb.

Check for spark or replace the plug.

Change the fuel filter.

Change the air filter if it looks dirty.

Check for obstructions in both the air intake and the exhaust.

Loosen the gas cap.

If I were you, I wouldn't take anything apart all this was done, and nothing improved.

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Gotta reiterate BTUs advice-

If you have:
Air
Fuel
Fire (Spark)
Compression

an engine will run unless you try to stop it.

Let's assume you have compression. Put the gas cap back on, then undo the spark plug, then plug it back into the spark plug wire. Using insulated (rubber-handled) pliers, hold the tip of the plug against metal that is connected to the ground (the frame of the genset should do). Pull the starter cord- you should see a blue spark flashing across the electrodes of the spark plug. Then put it back.

I won't repeat all the fuel advice you've already got, but since you asked what to spray and what not to spray- any auto parts store should have a spray can labelled carburetor cleaner- guess what that does? What not to spray? Silicone spray, WD40, Windex, paint, hairspray, Pam... the list goes on.

LOl, I know what not to use for spray (i.e I know to get carb cleaner) I was asking what parts to spray once I have the bowl off. (I see BTU answered some of this...just want to know if there is any part inside the carb once I get the bowl off that I do not spray)

The backfeed wiring was done with the cop on the phone with his electrician....I know how to splice wires, lol

 

[dave11]

If you find that it DOES have appropriate spark . . .

What exactly am I doing here to check spark? Removing the plug from the engine while attached to the wire and then pulling cord? or vice versa....talk to me like I am an idiot lol

The best way to check for spark is with a spark tester, which you can buy pretty cheaply at the auto parts store.

You can also do it holding the plug in INSULATED plies, but you run the risk of a painful but non-lethal shock if you screw up.

If you don't want to buy a spark tester, just buy a new plug and put it in.

 

[daveswoodhauler]

In my experience, when a fairly new small engine suddenly won't start or run, the problem is usually something straightforward. If you haven't been running it with an old or dirty fuel filter, its not likely you're going to get much crud in the fuel lines or carb, though I'm not saying it's impossible. A generator is not out in the field like a saw or mower, and the gas you put in it likely is pretty clean. So to say that you had dirty gas to start with, and that it got through the filter to cause this trouble, seems unlikely (but not impossible). That's not to say you don't have some other problem with the carb.

Check for spark or replace the plug.

Change the fuel filter.

Change the air filter if it looks dirty.

Check for obstructions in both the air intake and the exhaust.

Loosen the gas cap.

If I were you, I wouldn't take anything apart all this was done, and nothing improved.

Idiot alert....I know. I know...call me bdad. Ok, I was under the impression that carb cleaner is something that is sprayed into the carb...so I am an idiot I guess. Do you just run the carb cleaner in the tank? with gas, without gas? (I was planning on draining all the fuel via taking off the fuel line on the bottom of the tank. (Reason I thoughyt I was spraying someing in the carb is because the cop has the same exact generator, and he said that was his problem)

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

Question:

What exactly am I doing here to check spark?

Answer:

Put the gas cap back on, then undo the spark plug, then plug it back into the spark plug wire. Using insulated (rubber-handled) pliers, hold the tip of the plug against metal that is connected to the ground (the frame of the genset should do). Pull the starter cord- you should see a blue spark flashing across the electrodes of the spark plug. Then put it back.

And don't get all wound up about using some special insulated pliers. Use your bare hand on the plug wire. If you ground the spark plug well, but still get shocked through the insulation of the plug wire, then the plug wire is crap and/or the plug isn't gapped correctly.

And look . . .surprise surprise, I ain't no doctor. I been zapped many times and no real bad effects. But if you got a pacemaker or something, this may not be a good test for you to perform. Have the guy who you are trying to help hold the plug. ESPECIALLY if his wife is cute. ;-)

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

The bowl you speak of Dave, will not have to be taken off to get to the carb. The bowl is basically a small reservoir of gas that the carb takes gas from. You generally should not have to remove the bowl to get at the carb. And, as others have said -and especially where you are not comfortable attempting to catch check balls and needles and seats, et when they fall out- try to avoid dismantling the carb. That really should be done in a warm, well lit shop with a clean bench.

 

[backpack09]

I usually just pop the wire off the plug and hold it near the plug to see if there is spark. This way there is no fuel being being sprayed out the spark plug hole near a spark...

 

[daveswoodhauler]

The bowl you speak of Dave, will not have to be taken off to get to the carb. The bowl is basically a small reservoir of gas that the carb takes gas from. You generally should not have to remove the bowl to get at the carb. And, as others have said -and especially where you are not comfortable attempting to catch check balls and needles and seats, et when they fall out- try to avoid dismantling the carb. That really should be done in a warm, well lit shop with a clean bench.

Ok, got it. Thanks for all the help. Going to be online this weekend when I attempt this lol ?
(The cop that has the same gen as me told me the same exact thing happened to him 2 weeks ago....he just removed the bowl and cleaned it out...thats why I thought that the bowl would be access to the carb....I am not going to dismantle/open the carb..if I can't get it running with all the help from you guys I'll just bring it to the repair shop)
Thanks again.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

I usually just pop the wire off the plug and hold it near the plug to see if there is spark. This way there is no fuel being being sprayed out the spark plug hole near a spark...

We want to know if the spark plug is sparking, not if we are getting spark to the plug . . .

If the spark plug, removed from the combustion chamber by a few inches, ignites fuel mixture blowing out of the combustion chamber through the spark plug hole (no longer under compression), then someone put jet fuel or ether in the tank. . . in which case, no amount of advice found on Hearth.com is gonna save that person's sorry azz :smirk:

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

When the cop is on duty . . . go switch out generators with him

 

[fprintf]

My guess is on aged gas. Unlike wood, gasoline does not improve with age. If gasoline stablizer was not mixed with the fuel before storage then it is possible that no amount of fiddling will get this thing to run. I agree with ISeeDeadBTUs that a methodical approach is best to avoid chasing ghosts. But I guess the following will work:

1. Remove all existing fuel from the unit.
2. Add new fresh gasoline that you bought from the gas station today into a fuel can
3. Add 1 ounce of Sta-Bil or other fuel stabilizer
4. Take the air filter off, and spray carb cleaner (Gumout is a fine brand) into the carb openings
5. Maybe wiggle the choke on and off a few times
6. Check the fuel switch and ensure it is on
7. Add your fresh fuel into the gas tank
8. Prime the engine if there is a priming bulb (a soft pad you press on to bring fuel to the engine)
9. Turn the unit on
10. Pull the starting cord or press the button to get the electric starter running

The last few times I have had non operating engines it has been entirely my fault putting it away with fuel still in the carb. A relatively quick shot of carb cleaner or brake cleaner was all it took, and I learned my lesson and put my engines away after running them dry *and* put gas stabilizer in the fuel.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

Since you're not going to diagnose it till this w/e, I'll throw my WAG into the ring too. (the previous ones about fuel are prolly the correct ones)

Does anyone know what these units have for a fuse or a fuseable link? I'm wondering about the stellar job the electrician/cop/telephone did. Seems like that may be when it started running for only short bursts. But again, the more probable is that moving the genny around stirred up some dirt and put it where it shouldn't be.

Another tric to cleaning out the carb . . . assuming this is mlti cylindered . . . switch the order on the plug wires. This will cause a pretty good backfire, which will blow back through the carb (and out to your face if you stand there looking down the venturi :zip: ) which may blow the dirt back out the way it came.

 

[daveswoodhauler]

My guess is on aged gas. Unlike wood, gasoline does not improve with age. If gasoline stablizer was not mixed with the fuel before storage then it is possible that no amount of fiddling will get this thing to run. I agree with ISeeDeadBTUs that a methodical approach is best to avoid chasing ghosts. But I guess the following will work:

1. Remove all existing fuel from the unit.
2. Add new fresh gasoline that you bought from the gas station today into a fuel can
3. Add 1 ounce of Sta-Bil or other fuel stabilizer
4. Take the air filter off, and spray carb cleaner (Gumout is a fine brand) into the carb openings
5. Maybe wiggle the choke on and off a few times
6. Check the fuel switch and ensure it is on
7. Add your fresh fuel into the gas tank
8. Prime the engine if there is a priming bulb (a soft pad you press on to bring fuel to the engine)
9. Turn the unit on
10. Pull the starting cord or press the button to get the electric starter running

The last few times I have had non operating engines it has been entirely my fault putting it away with fuel still in the carb. A relatively quick shot of carb cleaner or brake cleaner was all it took, and I learned my lesson and put my engines away after running them dry *and* put gas stabilizer in the fuel.

Thanks Much. On item 4 above, by removing the air cleaner, this will give me acess to the carb? (I am gueessing that the air gets pulled into the carb through the air cleaner...so I am spraying the clearner through the air filter with the filter removed of course)

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

If the dirt is between the needle and seat (typical syptoms would be flooding) spraying down the throat will not help. But it's still worth a shot.

LOL, by the time you get this thing running, the grid will be back up :coolsmirk:

 

[Highbeam]

Wow. I've had many small engines fail and removing the carb bowl is very easy to do and provides access to almost every possible clogging point. Notice that the can of carb cleaner comes with a small tube to direct a blast into a small area. You will point that tube into the jets and orifices that will become visible when you remove the bowl. This is to blow the crud out of the jets and allow fuel to flow. When you remove the bowl you will want to dump out the gas and clean out any grit from the bottom of the bowl. With the bowl off you will also notice a hangy thing, the float. Make sure the float moves up and down. While it is hanging down turn on the fuel supply to verify that lots of fuel comes pouring into the bowl from the tank. This check will eliminate all of the chances of a plugged fuel filter or bad gas cap.

Put the bowl back on and turn on the gas. Check for leaks. This is actually pretty routine maintenance and never a bad idea.

Try and start it. Nothing? Then move on to sparkalation.

Remove the plug and check that it looks like a new plug with no funk where the spark should be. Then check for spark but don't get zapped, it's a bit painful.

 

[smokinj]

I would check ground wire and or coil! On off switch. ;-)

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Found the manual online:

http://lawnandgarden.manualsonline.com/manuals/mfg/briggs_stratton/206494gs.html?idRes=8010227

Going to tackle this in the next few days and hopefully post back with some good results. All have been very helpful

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Does anyone know what these units have for a fuse or a fuseable link? I'm wondering about the stellar job the electrician/cop/telephone did. Seems like that may be when it started running for only short bursts. But again, the more probable is that moving the genny around stirred up some dirt and put it where it shouldn't be..

Was thinking the same thing...posted a link of the manual, but I don't see any fuse/link that could have tripped...might have missed it though.

 

[Jags]

Fellas, this thread has tons of good stuff in it, but my bet is that Dave's head is spinning with all this info.

I can help with one small test. Very quickly spray a short burst of starting fluid in the throat of the carb. Pull to start (up to 3 pulls). If it fires AT ALL. Stop. You have a fuel issue. If it FAILS to fire, you have an electrical issue. This will tell you which end of the spectrum to focus on.

I have dollars to doughnuts that the carb needs to be cleaned.

 

[smokinj]

Fellas, this thread has tons of good stuff in it, but my bet is that Dave's head is spinning with all this info.

I can help with one small test. Very quickly spray a short burst of starting fluid in the throat of the carb. Pull to start (up to 3 pulls). If it fires AT ALL. Stop. You have a fuel issue. If it FAILS to fire, you have an electrical issue. This will tell you which end of the spectrum to focus on.

I have dollars to doughnuts that the carb needs to be cleaned.

I will take that bet.....50/50 always a good bet. lol

 

[Jags]

Fellas, this thread has tons of good stuff in it, but my bet is that Dave's head is spinning with all this info.

I can help with one small test. Very quickly spray a short burst of starting fluid in the throat of the carb. Pull to start (up to 3 pulls). If it fires AT ALL. Stop. You have a fuel issue. If it FAILS to fire, you have an electrical issue. This will tell you which end of the spectrum to focus on.

I have dollars to doughnuts that the carb needs to be cleaned.

I will take that bet.....50/50 always a good bet. lol

Yer gonna loose this one Jay. Ran fine at home. Stuffed into vehicle and got bounced around moving sediment where it shouldn't be and plugged the carb. Let me make a call to my booky. :coolsmile:

I'll even go further. Ran for 20 seconds or 30 or whatever because it ran on the fuel that was already in the bowl. Once depleted, no worky worky.

My simple test will confirm - spark or fuel.

 

[smokinj]

Fellas, this thread has tons of good stuff in it, but my bet is that Dave's head is spinning with all this info.

I can help with one small test. Very quickly spray a short burst of starting fluid in the throat of the carb. Pull to start (up to 3 pulls). If it fires AT ALL. Stop. You have a fuel issue. If it FAILS to fire, you have an electrical issue. This will tell you which end of the spectrum to focus on.

I have dollars to doughnuts that the carb needs to be cleaned.

I will take that bet.....50/50 always a good bet. lol

Yer gonna loose this one Jay. Ran fine at home. Stuffed into vehicle and got bounced around moving sediment where it shouldn't be and plugged the carb. Let me make a call to my booky. :coolsmile:

I'll even go further. Ran for 20 seconds or 30 or whatever because it ran on the fuel that was already in the bowl. Once depleted, no worky worky.

My simple test will confirm - spark or fuel.

I thought the same thing on my jd running fine and cough a couple times and went down. "Fuel Solenoid" Electric problem. Dirty fuel gets a bad name and everyone chases it....Carbs just are not that smart.
Kinda did the same test and she fired. Took me a few on this one.

 

[Jags]

Fellas, this thread has tons of good stuff in it, but my bet is that Dave's head is spinning with all this info.

I can help with one small test. Very quickly spray a short burst of starting fluid in the throat of the carb. Pull to start (up to 3 pulls). If it fires AT ALL. Stop. You have a fuel issue. If it FAILS to fire, you have an electrical issue. This will tell you which end of the spectrum to focus on.

I have dollars to doughnuts that the carb needs to be cleaned.

I will take that bet.....50/50 always a good bet. lol

Yer gonna loose this one Jay. Ran fine at home. Stuffed into vehicle and got bounced around moving sediment where it shouldn't be and plugged the carb. Let me make a call to my booky. :coolsmile:

I'll even go further. Ran for 20 seconds or 30 or whatever because it ran on the fuel that was already in the bowl. Once depleted, no worky worky.

My simple test will confirm - spark or fuel.

I thought the same thing on my jd running fine and cough a couple times and went down. "Fuel Solenoid" Electric problem. Dirty fuel gets a bad name and everyone chases it....Carbs just are not that smart.

That is why I suggest to test first. Saves alot of time chasing phantom problems.

 

[smokinj]

Fellas, this thread has tons of good stuff in it, but my bet is that Dave's head is spinning with all this info.

I can help with one small test. Very quickly spray a short burst of starting fluid in the throat of the carb. Pull to start (up to 3 pulls). If it fires AT ALL. Stop. You have a fuel issue. If it FAILS to fire, you have an electrical issue. This will tell you which end of the spectrum to focus on.

I have dollars to doughnuts that the carb needs to be cleaned.

I will take that bet.....50/50 always a good bet. lol

Yer gonna loose this one Jay. Ran fine at home. Stuffed into vehicle and got bounced around moving sediment where it shouldn't be and plugged the carb. Let me make a call to my booky. :coolsmile:

I'll even go further. Ran for 20 seconds or 30 or whatever because it ran on the fuel that was already in the bowl. Once depleted, no worky worky.

My simple test will confirm - spark or fuel.

I thought the same thing on my jd running fine and cough a couple times and went down. "Fuel Solenoid" Electric problem. Dirty fuel gets a bad name and everyone chases it....Carbs just are not that smart.

That is why I suggest to test first. Saves alot of time chasing phantom problems.

Oh I am with you there but I did the same thing and it fired...lol took a few on that one. :cheese: