Froling Add-on Install

[Marshy]

Looking good, but is there enough room for a chair and a beer?

Thanks. Yes, probably enough for two chairs but unfortunately it might be kind of boring.

 

[TCaldwell]

That was a trick question, you passed, it means you have a life beyond burning wood, or so I’ve been told!

 

[Marshy]

That was a trick question, you passed, it means you have a life beyond burning wood, or so I’ve been told!

Ha! If there's enough heat coming off it I might still fall asleep in a chair in front of it while taking off my boots but seems doubtful.

 

[Highbeam]

Thanks. Yes, probably enough for two chairs but unfortunately it might be kind of boring.

I was thinking about this when pondering a kuuma furnace in my shop. It would be an extremely functional upgrade but no window to view flames at all. I would have to do something besides stare at the fire!

 

[oaksplitter]

I have similar system and think it awesome. Your in good hands with folks at Tarm, especially if you are a DIY'r like myself.

 

[Marshy]

I'm installing my American Solartechnics storage tank and realized I need some temp probes. Any recommendations?

 

[Marshy]

@peakbagger, I read you have a solartechnics tank. Do you recall what temperature elements you used and where I could get some for my tank? Thanks.

@tom in maine, your help is appreciated.

 

[peakbagger]

I use old school honeywell auqastats for my high temp cut off on the tank. That is the style with the sensing bulb attached to the control box with thin copper tube. Old school but it works. To actually see the temp of the tank I just have a thermocouple stuck down the same vent pipe as the sensing bulb hooked up to my fluke.

I did pick up some cheap chinese temperature controler with digital readouts on Ebay that have a fairly large display they will read most types of thermocouples and thermisters i havent gotten around to installing them. I wouldnt trust them to control anything but if the displays work they are cheaper than buying a digital display.

I did have some spare thermocouple wire when I installed the tank and set a thermocouple in the tank wall behind the liner at the bottom middle and top just for the chuckles. They all terminate with thermcouple plugs so I can plug them into the Fluke.

One thing I did do different than ASTs installation is I put dricore under the tank. (broken link removed) I just wanted to make sure that air could get underneath if water somehow got in there.

 

[Marshy]

I use old school honeywell auqastats for my high temp cut off on the tank. That is the style with the sensing bulb attached to the control box with thin copper tube. Old school but it works. To actually see the temp of the tank I just have a thermocouple stuck down the same vent pipe as the sensing bulb hooked up to my fluke.

I did pick up some cheap chinese temperature controler with digital readouts on Ebay that have a fairly large display they will read most types of thermocouples and thermisters i havent gotten around to installing them. I wouldnt trust them to control anything but if the displays work they are cheaper than buying a digital display.

I did have some spare thermocouple wire when I installed the tank and set a thermocouple in the tank wall behind the liner at the bottom middle and top just for the chuckles. They all terminate with thermcouple plugs so I can plug them into the Fluke.

One thing I did do different than ASTs installation is I put dricore under the tank. (broken link removed) I just wanted to make sure that air could get underneath if water somehow got in there.

Thanks for the flooring idea. I did happen to think about getting air under the tank to prevent mold in case moisture accumulated. I'll defiantly be getting some of this. I was going to add 2" of ridgid foam board under the tank as well.

 

[Marshy]

Thanks for the advice on the DriCore sub flooring @peakbagger. It installs very quickly, especially in a closet area where you don't need to have to deal with finishing the edges. 14 squares made 7'9" x 6'9" pad for the tank. My "closet" space is 15' x 7'6" so I'll have a 1'3" space against the back wall (far right) to sneak around the tank and also have 1'9" to the back wall (front and center) to hook up plumbing. Plumbing will come straight out of the back of the boiler and through the wall with the 1x2 on it (from and center). The main hydronic header (and my oil boiler) is behind the wall on the far left.

 

[Marshy]

Ok, more progress in assembly. Tank is up waiting for liner install. I have to cut back my shelf on the right so I can get behind the tank...

Boiler is nearly fully assembled and wired.

All the door hinges were on the right so I had to switch them around.

One disappointment was the fit of the clean out block plate opposite of the clean out door. Must be the welded on nuts are skewed.

Training the cables inside the controller takes some patience. The heavy cables for the air control actuators are not very flexible and the plastic clamps provided for the knock-out penetrations are way too small to clamp on them. Getting them trained so there's not a lot of stress in the board plug is tricky. Partially complete wiring.

 

[maple1]

Did you contact the vendor or company about that sloppy door? That is pretty disappointing looking. Otherwise - looking good!

 

[Highbeam]

Did you forget the jack studs on that window?

 

[Bad LP]

Screw the wood work... That wire connection block looks like a PITA. Why can't they give a cabinet style block from the factory? Make it big with room to move around with. Code is 6" free wire last I knew. I was down to 2" using freaking pliers. Thank God I was using EMT and stuffed the extra back in to the boxes.

 

[jebatty]

Maybe a little late for monitoring input. This is the monitoring panel I built for a Froling. Digital panel meters (except flue) with DS18b20 sensors are readily available on Ebay. Cat5 cable for the wiring. Flue panel meter has a type K sensor. Top row is storage tank top, middle and bottom. Middle row is boiler supply, boiler return, and flue. Bottom row is system supply to storage and system return to storage.

 

[maple1]

Maybe a little late for monitoring input. This is the monitoring panel I built for a Froling. Digital panel meters (except flue) with DS18b20 sensors are readily available on Ebay. Cat5 cable for the wiring. Flue panel meter has a type K sensor. Top row is storage tank top, middle and bottom. Middle row is boiler supply, boiler return, and flue. Bottom row is system supply to storage and system return to storage.

View attachment 216683

Ever have problems with those?

I have two that are wonky most times. Mine alternate between 2 sensors, and one of them gets stuck on 185. That's happening in 2 guages. Weird how the two separate guages can sit there flashing 185 at the exact same time. They've been powered up & showing temps for around 5 years straight though, which maybe isn't more than one could expect for what they are.

 

[jebatty]

I have two that are wonky most times. Mine alternate between 2 sensors, and one of them gets stuck on 185. That's happening in 2 guages.

I occasionally also had this experience with two of about 30 digital displays I have in service on four display panels. All the panels have been in service for more than five years. I found that if I disconnected and then reconnected the wire to the meter the problem was solved. I had to extend the cable from the meter to the sensor with Cat5, and I twisted and soldered all splices. I didn't use the two display option, as I found this to be distracting.

 

[Marshy]

Did you forget the jack studs on that window?

No, the wall is not load bearing.

Did you contact the vendor or company about that sloppy door? That is pretty disappointing looking. Otherwise - looking good!

No, not yet. That same block off plate came installed on the opposite side of the boiler but was moved to this side. I never reinstalled it on the original side to see if maybe the bolt holes were off on the plate but it appears to be from the nuts that are welded onto the boiler jacket. Not much the dealer can do do me unfortunately.

Screw the wood work... That wire connection block looks like a PITA. Why can't they give a cabinet style block from the factory? Make it big with room to move around with. Code is 6" free wire last I knew. I was down to 2" using freaking pliers. Thank God I was using EMT and stuffed the extra back in to the boxes.

The instructions get quite vague at this point also. It tells you where to hook the plugs into on the controller but it doesn't give all the instructions to install the knock-out panel. That's just one example. It also doesn't include instructions on how the BLT controller interfaces with the boiler control. They leave a lot to be desired for the DIY guys like myself. I'm getting there though.

Maybe a little late for monitoring input. This is the monitoring panel I built for a Froling. Digital panel meters (except flue) with DS18b20 sensors are readily available on Ebay. Cat5 cable for the wiring. Flue panel meter has a type K sensor. Top row is storage tank top, middle and bottom. Middle row is boiler supply, boiler return, and flue. Bottom row is system supply to storage and system return to storage.
View attachment 216683

I'd like to know more about it, did you have a build thread to point me to? I'll have to check but believe my FHG can display all those parameters if I toggle the display.

Looked to me that there is a cat5 jacket in the controler labeled as COM, I also see a memory card. My guess is only authorized dealers can access that info.

Have you seen the capabilities of the new Froling Turbo S3? You can have 4 temp probes and it has more features than the FHG... the boiler itself is a S3 but with FHG controls. They sent S3 install/operating instructions inside the Firefox but the FHG install/operating instructions came via email. It was one of the last 10 FHG being sold.

 

[Marshy]

I have similar system and think it awesome. Your in good hands with folks at Tarm, especially if you are a DIY'r like myself.
View attachment 215287

Can you take a picture of the back of your boiler for me? I feel like there should be a small square plate in the upper corners for the wires to exit/enter. Instead, it just appears to be an open hole... thanks.

 

[jebatty]

I'll have to check but believe my FHG can display all those parameters if I toggle the display.

Toggling through a display is OK. I like a display that in a glance lets me see all of the parameters which are important or most informative. That's why I did the display panel for the Froling. Easy to find these panel meters by searching in Ebay or Amazon or otherwise "ds18b20 temperature sensor meter" or similar search.

 

[velvetfoot]

Nice!

 

[Marshy]

Toggling through a display is OK. I like a display that in a glance lets me see all of the parameters which are important or most informative. That's why I did the display panel for the Froling. Easy to find these panel meters by searching in Ebay or Amazon or otherwise "ds18b20 temperature sensor meter" or similar search.

Right on. Not sure how it is all connected, that's why I was asking about a thread.

I can see the appeal it has. Right now it's a struggle to get this operating asap given the time I'm available and how late in the season it is. I'm no electrician and only have a small background with I&C. I have a lot of questions about it before I could get it integrated. Such as; is the flue temp probe wired to the red box for displayed then connect to the controller like the display is in series?
I searched "ds18b20" and variations and found the probe with a display. Did you build the red box? How did you connect the probes on the supply and return temp, tape the probe to the pipe and insulate it?

Edit: I just searched this site and found your thread. https://hearth.com/talk/threads/mor...ital-readout-data-logger.160667/#post-2158106
Thanks

I think I might buy two sensors and place them inside the tank so that way I can come back at a later date and use them for this. If nothing else, if I ever had one fail I'd have a redundant probe already installed.

 

[maple1]

I searched "ds18b20" and variations and found the probe with a display. Did you build the red box? How did you connect the probes on the supply and return temp, tape the probe to the pipe and insulate it?

That's what I did - just taped a piece of pipe insulation over the sensors. I have the same gauges. I got the dual display ones - two sensors for one gauge. Which alternate back & forth every couple seconds or so. I just got some big cheap hinged electrical boxes for mine and cut out holes the right size. Which was a bit of a PITA. I think I drilled the corners of the holes then used a jig saw. Have to be careful on cutting the holes out - too small & gauges won't quite go in far enough to click in place, too big and they won't stay put. But the hinged door was good for getting them mounted & wired & the mess of wires hidden away. Four gauges per box - the second box I never did get finished. Too many distractions...

 

[Marshy]

I was thinking it would be nice to know the temp differential at each loop but I could always just use a Flir gun.
@maple1 do you have a data recorder hooked to yours also?

 

[maple1]

No recording. Just looking & seeing.