Fire smokes/smoulders with door open

[savageactor7]

With everything else appearing to be kosher I'd look for a chimney cap being partially clogged.

 

[bholler]

With everything else appearing to be kosher I'd look for a chimney cap being partially clogged.

Then why would it work fine with the door closed. I looked at the manufacturers site it is meant to be burnt with the door closed so i can almost guarantee that is the problem the stove was made for the air to come in the air inlets and feed the fire when you dump all that fresh air in above the fire it just does not work right

 

[Bahyx]

Like a metal grate with an upturn so the logs don't roll out.

That's a great idea I'll have a look this weekend for a store that sells them, I do have a feeling it's not going to work though >.<. Like the others have said, the fireplace seems to be too tall and the air gets sucked up through the chimney near the top of the door opening nowhere near the fire.

With the door open your secondary combustion cannot take place because of low burn temps. Too much air.

Even with the door closed I haven't gotten close to secondary burn. Perhaps the fireplace is too tall for that or I just haven't learned enough yet.

Also your fuel may not be dry enough to burn at these lower temps, only smolder. Is that last photo a bag of kiln dried? If so, Does it burn the same?

That's just kindling from the service station, only use it when I run out of the firewood guy's kindling. No idea if it's kiln dried, first time I've heard the term. Seemed to burn alright in the Chimnea but I did notice it crackled and spat a fair bit.

I'm sure the manufacturer could give you the answer, have you engaged them yet?

Not yet, I'm pretty sure they will just say it's not designed to be used with the door open so there's nothing you can do. When I was having trouble getting it going the first time I gave them a call to ask what position the damper lever was open in (first fireplace and I didn't have the manual, installer didn't show me), they also told me about the air inlet lever positions then too. To be honest it did occur to me to try and take it back but I would kind of feel like a douche doing that as I don't think there's anything wrong with the fireplace itself, just my unorthodox way of using it. I doubt they would let me in any case.

With everything else appearing to be kosher I'd look for a chimney cap being partially clogged.

The flue is bent 3 times at 45 degree angles. It comes out at an angle, we had to go round a window and the installer didn't want to go through the asbestos roof so there's another bend there. Spoke to the firewood delivery guy about it and he thought it was fine though.

I looked at the manufacturers site it is meant to be burnt with the door closed

Just out of curiosity where does it say this? It would be good to know.

 

[velvetfoot]

That's a great idea I'll have a look this weekend for a store that sells them, I do have a feeling it's not going to work though >.<. Like the others have said, the fireplace seems to be too tall and the air gets sucked up through the chimney near the top of the door opening nowhere near the fire.

It won't cost a fortune to try, at least.

 

[Jo191145]

That's a great idea I'll have a look this weekend for a store that sells them, I do have a feeling it's not going to work though >.<. Like the others have said, the fireplace seems to be too tall and the air gets sucked up through the chimney near the top of the door opening nowhere near the fire.


Even with the door closed I haven't gotten close to secondary burn. Perhaps the fireplace is too tall for that or I just haven't learned enough yet.


That's just kindling from the service station, only use it when I run out of the firewood guy's kindling. No idea if it's kiln dried, first time I've heard the term. Seemed to burn alright in the Chimnea but I did notice it crackled and spat a fair bit.


Not yet, I'm pretty sure they will just say it's not designed to be used with the door open so there's nothing you can do. When I was having trouble getting it going the first time I gave them a call to ask what position the damper lever was open in (first fireplace and I didn't have the manual, installer didn't show me), they also told me about the air inlet lever positions then too. To be honest it did occur to me to try and take it back but I would kind of feel like a douche doing that as I don't think there's anything wrong with the fireplace itself, just my unorthodox way of using it. I doubt they would let me in any case.


The flue is bent 3 times at 45 degree angles. It comes out at an angle, we had to go round a window and the installer didn't want to go through the asbestos roof so there's another bend there. Spoke to the firewood delivery guy about it and he thought it was fine though.


Just out of curiosity where does it say this? It would be good to know.

I might disagree with your firewood guy. I have no idea what the rules and regs are on steel fabricated chimneys but in masonry three 45's are verboten. (Unless you have a system designed to incorporate those bends like a masonry heater for instance)

Your draft may have been rendered so anemic that with the door open the extra amount of air volumn is simply overloading the chimney.
There are more educated folks on steel chimney installs that can weigh in on that here.
How the heck are you going to clean a chimney with that many bends? Eek!

 

[Bahyx]

I have no idea what the rules and regs are on steel fabricated chimneys but in masonry three 45's are verboten.

I'll take some photos now ...

What do you guys think?

 

[Swedishchef]

Something tells me that chimney is where your problem lies...an outdoor chimney with that many bends and twists simply won't draft.

Andrew

 

[drz1050]

A chimney following the contour of the house is interesting... looks like you have at least 3 elbows too many. It also looks a little short.

I'd take out all of those elbows in the middle. Extend the bottom further out, brace it, then just go straight up from there.

 

[Bahyx]

looks like you have at least 3 elbows too many. It also looks a little short.
I'd take out all of those elbows in the middle. Extend the bottom further out, brace it, then just go straight up from there.

I'd kind of like to do this but how do I put it to the installer ... just 'some guys on the internet told me to'? I don't think he's gonna be too impressed with that, the installation of all this was half the price (~$US 4,500).

 

[drz1050]

Perhaps look up a reputable local chimney sweep, and have him give an opinion?

There's a website where you can just put your zip code in and it'll list all of the ones in your area.. can't think of what it is right now, but if you do a search on here you can find it.

 

[webby3650]

From what I see in the picture you have galvanized single wall pipe that's installed upside down. It's kind of difficult to tell for sure.
Find out from the installer what materials were used on the chimney.

 

[Jo191145]

From what I see in the picture you have galvanized single wall pipe that's installed upside down. It's kind of difficult to tell for sure.
Find out from the installer what materials were used on the chimney.

Dang, I think your right. If so that's totally illegal. Good catch webby.
I think the OP would be better off bringing in another installer to look at it at this point. He has a good point, bunch of guys on the Internet said it was no good isn't much to go on.
As I said before, just a mason, wouldn't want that chimney running up my house though. Even if it was legal you'd have to disassemble it to clean it.
I can't imagine that's a correct install in any country.

 

[bholler]

I think the OP would be better off bringing in another installer to look at it at this point. He has a good point, bunch of guys on the Internet said it was no good isn't much to go on.
As I said before, just a mason, wouldn't want that chimney running up my house though. Even if it was legal you'd have to disassemble it to clean it.

The op is from Australia i believe I agree that that does not look like the class a we see here but i have no idea what products are sold in aus it may be fine. But i agree that it should be checked out by another pro. You could clean that just fine no need to dissasemble

 

[Jo191145]

The op is from Australia i believe I agree that that does not look like the class a we see here but i have no idea what products are sold in aus it may be fine. But i agree that it should be checked out by another pro. You could clean that just fine no need to dissasemble

Really? I'll take your word for it. I wouldn't want to try getting a brush down it.
And you are correct. I'm not all that familiar with metal stove pipe construction even in this country much less Australia.
Correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't the galvanized appearance throw up a red flag at least in the US? I thought galvanized was regulated out of existence here for wood burning or are there still some applications where it's allowed?
Just looking to learn

 

[bholler]

Correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't the galvanized appearance throw up a red flag at least in the US? I thought galvanized was regulated out of existence here for wood burning or are there still some applications where it's allowed?

There are class a chimneys sold here with galvanized exterior skins if that is actually a chimney system it may be fine that being said that many offsets is far from optimal and here it would not be allowed but i have no idea about there. But yes a brush would go right through those offsets with no trouble

 

[Jo191145]

There are class a chimneys sold here with galvanized exterior skins if that is actually a chimney system it may be fine that being said that many offsets is far from optimal and here it would not be allowed but i have no idea about there. But yes a brush would go right through those offsets with no trouble

Thanks for the info.

 

[Auzzie Gumtree]

Just for info guys i have a similar flue - it is triple skin. mine is 6" inner stainless with 8" middle and 10" outer skin in galvanised. We don't get the temperature swings you guys in USA get. it very rarely gets below freezing and therefore i don't think the exhaust gasses are subjected to the freezing conditions you guys get and therefore the gases dont condense as much and this doesn't cause as much creosote.

My concern is the height of the flue - it should be at least another 900mm section on top of where it is - see diagram below.

Also the wood is not dry - it looks like it has been seasoned in the round and then split just before delivery. If it looks wrong it usually is wrong and that wood looks wet very wet.

Where are you in Australia?

(broken image removed)

 

[bholler]

Just for info guys i have a similar flue - it is triple skin. mine is 6" inner stainless with 8" middle and 10" outer skin in galvanised. We don't get the temperature swings you guys in USA get. it very rarely gets below freezing and therefore i don't think the exhaust gasses are subjected to the freezing conditions you guys get and therefore the gases dont condense as much and this doesn't cause as much creosote.

That is why i said i didnt know it does not look like any class a sold here but that doesn't mean it is wrong. It is hard to tell from those pics if the height is ok

 

[Auzzie Gumtree]

Here's one of the flue's i put it in my house last year - draft seems pretty much perfect - triple skin.

 

[webby3650]

I thought most wood burning appliances were subject to international residential code? That would make all those offsets unacceptable, and the single wall. If that's what it is. It sure doesn't look like 10" OD.

 

[BrotherBart]

I thought most wood burning appliances were subject to international residential code? That would make all those offsets unacceptable, and the single wall. If that's what it is. It sure doesn't look like 10" OD.

Only when incorporated by reference in local building codes. And that is one fat pipe. Easily 10".

 

[bholler]

I thought most wood burning appliances were subject to international residential code?

In some places yes in some no not even the entire us has adopted irc

 

[webby3650]

Only when incorporated by reference in local building codes. And that is one fat pipe. Easily 10".

No, not easily.

 

[BrotherBart]

Look at the cap.

 

[Jo191145]

That particular fireplace takes a 9" pipe.

Judging by the OP's 2nd picture it looks as if three courses of brick in height pretty closely matches the pipe width. Standard American brick equals 8" for three courses. The Aussies are welcome to make brick any size they desire of course. Just sayin.