Fire Chief or Shelter EPA stoves feedback

[Mrpelletburner]

Not sure if anyone is still following this thread, feels like binge-watching on Netflix ... please pass the popcorn.

However another back flash early today. Outside temperature is ~35F with an NNW 11 mph wind and pressure is 29.97 in.

The following video captured the back flash, at the 55sec marker

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Flue temp was ~300F, draft blower running and no other fans running in the house, basement window and door to bulkhead closed. The back flash happened almost exactly 1 hour after loading a small load.

My theory is that the back-flash occurs right before the moment of "flashpoint" when the fire starts to take off. For some reason, the smoke stalls around the exit of the heat exchanger, even with a draft, and ignites when fresh air is introduced. I have ordered all new, perhaps better quality black stove pipe, including (2) 45deg adjustable elbows. I plan on running a camera through the SS liner.

Should also note that I had 2 small back flashes last night after loading, with the flue temp at 245F.

The following photos are of the stove at 8:37 am (before loading) and 8:39 am (stove loaded).

Video of fire box 5mins after the back flash

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[brenndatomu]

This thread is starting to read a little like that old Bill Murray movie...Groundhog Day...

 

[maple1]

Since we haven't heard of any - assuming that the company hasn't been any real help?

I would be cheesed.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Actually had a 1 hour call with two of their engineers the other day. Their team has viewed all videos posted to my YouTube account and the content of this long thread.

One theory they have is my SS liner t-snout connection might not be correctly connected, allowing fresh air to come in contact with flue gasses. If you notice, all "puffs" with the new stove pipe configuration, happens at the elbow closest to the stove. Fresh air should not be traveling that far down a 25' stack. Currently, all the stove pipe I am using was purchased at Lowes (perhaps not the best quality product). The 90-degree adjustable elbows do not have the tightest seams, this is where the "puffs" exit. The crimped connections have a very thin amount of high temp RTV silicone.

So they asked if I could run a camera down the flue and in the t-snout area. Just going to use an old iPhone and facetime to the old phone, recording the screen. I also dropped more $$ and ordered (2) adjustable 45 elbows and a telescoping straight section pipe.

Between the time troubleshooting, time away from the day job and parts, I could have paid for that fancy Kuuma or the Caddy. Also, wonder if it would have been better off purchasing that Royall 8095 wood/coal.

 

[laynes69]

One theory they have is my SS liner t-snout connection might not be correctly connected, allowing fresh air to come in contact with flue gasses.

yeah right! The chimney is pulling draft, which shows on the manometer. If air came down the chimney, you'd die of carbon monoxide. You see smoke come from the joints because they are not airtight. They just need to chalk it up, it's a badly designed unit and should be pulled from the market. That's what happens when a manufacturer is forced to put something in place without the proper research and development. Hell, you would've been better with a tractor supply special at this point. Every single video shows your manometer, so that proves air is not coming down the chimney. When it ignites, it causes pressure which drops the pressure on the manometer.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

I think... they were suggesting that the air around the SS liner? Perhaps from the cleanout area under the t-snout area? But you are right, the manometer shows a draft. However, they did say all you need is a little bit of air to come in contact with unburned gasses.

The wife still wants this stove gone

What myself and others would like, is to hear from ANYONE that has had success with this stove. I am assuming they have sold at least 100 to 200 of this model by this point.

 

[laynes69]

I think... they were suggesting that the air around the SS liner? Perhaps from the cleanout area under the t-snout area? But you are right, the manometer shows a draft. However, they did say all you need is a little bit of air to come in contact with unburned gasses.

The wife still wants this stove gone

What myself and others would like, is to hear from ANYONE that has had success with this stove. I am assuming they have sold at least 100 to 200 of this model by this point.

Unless your shooting flames or 1200 degree air up the chimney, it's not going to happen period!

 

[brenndatomu]

What myself and others would like, is to hear from ANYONE that has had success with this stove. I am assuming they have sold at least 100 to 200 of this model by this point.

If they knew what was good for 'em they'd just recall these things now, it would be a pretty small recall at this point...peanuts compared to a wrongful death lawsuit...CO poisoning, (kids and old people are very susceptible) house fire, stuff that a good lawyer would make hay with...cost 'em more his/her first day on the case than it would to just buy 'em all back full price plus shipping, time/trouble. And IMO, they would owe you a boatload of money for your time/trouble, you have went way above and beyond...there is no way these things should have been released to the public without being vetted in R n D...which they obviously were not.
Where did you buy it? Will the retailer take it back?

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Purchased from Woodstovepro

 

[brenndatomu]

Also, wonder if it would have been better off purchasing that Royall 8095 wood/coal.

I don't think those are available to the states anymore...

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Local shop has a leftover, they were selling for ~1600

 

[maple1]

I think... they were suggesting that the air around the SS liner? Perhaps from the cleanout area under the t-snout area? But you are right, the manometer shows a draft. However, they did say all you need is a little bit of air to come in contact with unburned gasses.

The wife still wants this stove gone

What myself and others would like, is to hear from ANYONE that has had success with this stove. I am assuming they have sold at least 100 to 200 of this model by this point.

That is a severely out to lunch hokey theory on their part, and if they are really engineers I would question their credentials. Or their ethics.

What do they think a barometric damper does? That's right, it sends fresh air into the flue gasses. Millions of them are in place doing their job and I have never heard of this sort of thing happening before. If this thing was burning right, there would be NO unburned flue gasses in the stove pipe, or anywhere else, to ignite in the first place.

Sounds like they are looking everywhere except the furnace itself. If they don't change that, the future is very bleak for them - for all the reasons mentioned in post #308.

 

[brenndatomu]

What do they think a barometric damper does? That's right, it sends fresh air into the flue gasses. Millions of them are in place doing their job and I have never heard of this sort of thing happening before. If this thing was burning right, there would be NO unburned flue gasses in the stove pipe, or anywhere else, to ignite in the first place.

Very good point!

 

[brenndatomu]

Local shop has a leftover, they were selling for ~1600

Guess they don't know, or maybe don't care that they are not actually allowed to sell those after May 2017.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong...I know the manufactures are not allowed to sell 'em after May 2017...but I thought that retailers were not allowed to sell their non-conforming inventory after that either...

 

[Mrpelletburner]

I did mention that and suggested they just give the unit to me for free! It didn't work...

I thought the FC would be the better route based on the feedback of prior FC stoves and the new EPA stoves burn times.

 

[brenndatomu]

I did mention that and suggested they just give the unit to me for free! It didn't work...

Nice try!

 

[Medic21]

@Mrpelletburner Why are you splitting so small? You have 9 splits taking up as much space as two and a half of mine. Smaller splits are more prone to puffing.

I was told by the company they have sold over 2000 of these and there are only a handful of us having any issues. Mine has been going since Monday without a puff. I just started burningbit hotter for longer. Once it burns down to the point it's not really capable of puffing I leave it alone and reload when I can burn it hard for an hour. My house goes as hot as 77 and is at about 71 6-7 hours later when I reload.

I will admit after being around wood heat all my life this has been a rough one to get used to.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

@Mrpelletburner Why are you splitting so small? You have 9 splits taking up as much space as two and a half of mine. Smaller splits are more prone to puffing.

Trust me, not trying to burn small splits, however anytime I have added a larger split, the fire almost goes out from smoking itself out.


The following is a photos are of my shed. The sizes of splits are what was delivered from the local fire wood supplier.

I was told by the company they have sold over 2000 of these and there are only a handful of us having any issues.

Funny... they told me 1200, but didn't say how many are in use.

started burning bit hotter for longer"?

Can you provide more details regarding hotter for longer?

The load from last night started puffing at 6am in the morning and it is all you could smell.

 

[BoiledOver]

Is it possible that air is coming from your masonry chimney, such as a shared cleanout chamber? Somewhere in this Moby Dick thread I recall seeing a photo of at least two stacks coming out of the chimney top.

 

[brenndatomu]

The following is a photos are of my shed. The sizes of splits are what was delivered from the local fire wood supplier.

Nice wood shed!
Wow, those are small splits.

As far as split size goes...the way I found to load the Tundra that works well is to pull the hot coals forward, load large splits on the bottom, and some pretty small stuff on top. Then maybe a handful of "splitter shrapnel" on the coals right before I close the door.
Tundra having a window in the door really helps you learn what works and what doesn't since you can see the fire...and I have probably hundreds of hours in studying it.
Loading this way the fire takes off right away and really gets roaring right at the front since that's where all the primary air is rushing in with the damper open. Once my temp controller sees the flue temp it is after, the damper closes. The whole firebox appears to explode into flames at this point, after a minute or two things settle down and the secondary burn gets going good mainly at the top of the firebox...the primary fire at the front settles down to a small fire, which feeds enough wood gas to keep the secondary fire fed above. Usually she's in "cruise control" for the rest of the burn then (damper doesn't open again) but occasionally the flue temp drops off too far and the temp controller will allow the damper to open (if the timer has not run out of time) and the cycle begins again.

You can do kinda the same thing with yours manually...load the same way, turn the draft blower on with the flapper wide open, after the temps are where you want them, close the flapper 50%, let things stabilize for a while (you will have to figure out how long this takes) then close it another 50% (at this point I'd think you'd be really close to where they want you to run it, 3/8) after the fire stabilizes again, then shut the blower off. This is basically how I run my wood stove too.
Not having a window makes it harder to learn how long this takes, but at least you have those cool temp sensors now, that helps to know what's going on in there.
The only thing that still bothers me about doing this is how you get backfires hours and hours into the burn...that is unusual!

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Is it possible that air is coming from your masonry chimney, such as a shared cleanout chamber? Somewhere in this Moby Dick thread I recall seeing a photo of at least two stacks coming out of the chimney top.

The chimney has 3 separate stacks.

This is a vide looking up at the t-snout clean out.

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[Medic21]

Trust me, not trying to burn small splits, however anytime I have added a larger split, the fire almost goes out from smoking itself out.


The following is a photos are of my shed. The sizes of splits are what was delivered from the local fire wood supplier.

View attachment 224949 View attachment 224950





Funny... they told me 1200, but didn't say how many are in use.



Can you provide more details regarding hotter for longer?

The load from last night started puffing at 6am in the morning and it is all you could smell.

If your larger splits are burning out try to add them when the inducer is on and make sure you leave your door/doors open long enough to get it going. The same principle for burning hotter. Turn the thermostat up and get the load burnt down. I hit 75-77 in the house. Off of a full load on the stove I still have enough heat for 3-4 hours and the house will be 70-72 6-7 hours later.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Reloaded this morning at 5:10 am, 4-5 splits and almost 1 hour later, the stove puffed 7 times in a 5-minute window, flue temperature was 383F, with plenty of draft. Also, after each puff, notice how the flue temperature quickly rises (top temperature reading of the digital gauge).

:39 marker
1:31 marker
2:19 marker
2:58 marker
3:30 marker
4:00 marker
4:43 marker

Noticed the flue temp starts off at 383F and after each puff, the temperature quickly rises. Added 5 splits at 5:10am. Again, almost 1 hour after the stove puffs.

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[Medic21]

One hour into it after reloading my flue temp is between 500-600. Your not burning hot enough for the stove to burn off the gasses.

Try having the doors open longer after loading and/or opening up the slide to allow more air in.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

One hour into it after reloading my flue temp is between 500-600. Your not burning hot enough for the stove to burn off the gasses.

Try having the doors open longer after loading and/or opening up the slide to allow more air in.

But shouldn't we be able to load the stove and walk away? Or at least not stand there for 15mins until we are burning hot enough?