Fair Price for Harman Accentra Pellet Stove?

[wmarazita]

Here are a couple sources for Duravent brand adjustable pipe sections. One is for a 3" inch, and the other is 4". Duravent is quite common, but is also generally known for being leaky. It can be sealed with silicone, but a leak can be a pain to track down sometimes.

http://m.lowes.com/pd_62705-76845-AC-3012A_0__?productId=3134813

(broken link removed)

Hmmmm. Leaky doesn't sound good. What would be the brand that would be known for "NOT being leaky?"

My vent system would be a 90 degree (or Tee) right out the back, vertical rise of about 2 feet, then a 90 degree, then about 2 feet horizontal through the wall thimble, and then terminate just outside the wall. At 5500 feet, would you recommend 3" or 4" pipe?

Thanks!

 

[wmarazita]

Is the EVL info you clipped for a Harman stove? How far is it from your stove exhaust to your thimble hole?

No it is off of an unrelated website (just so I knew what EVL stands for!) I'm still learning all of the codes!

 

[wmarazita]

(broken link removed to http://www.hearthnhome.com/downloads/installManuals/Accentra.pdf)
For some of the models, they have step-by-step cleaning videos and print instructions on the main page.

If you are at higher elevations, atmospheric pressure is increased and will restrict exhaust more. If you are over 3,000 elevation, they recommend you keep EVL (Equivalent Vertical Length) to 7 if using 3" pipe (over 7, 4" pipe recommended). This is calculated by 90 elbows/cleanouts = 5', 45 elbows = 3, horizontal 1' = 1', vertical 1' = .5' You mentioned 2-90s that equals 10 EVL already.

Just saw you got it figured out....

Sounds like 4" for sure then.

 

[P38X2]

Yeah, better safe than sorry. Go with the 4"

Selkirk is a decent brand. I have Metal-Fab brand on my P68 and have had good luck with it. My P38 has Duravent and it required a lot of silicone.

There's no guarantee any manufacturers pipe won't leak, especially articulating sections such as elbows. If you have silicone and/or tape, you'll be all set.

I'm sure you've read all about OAK's and their benefits. If you're on the fence about doing it, now is a good time to figure out what you want, as you'll be replacing your thimble. I strongly recommend using one.

 

[Lake Girl]

Selkirk also have the venting with the OAK integrated (broken link removed to http://www.selkirkcorp.com/selkirk/Product.aspx?id=7428)

If you are changing the thimble to accommodate a 4", you might as well check this out and try to sell the pellet vent that came with the stove on craigs list.

Edit: The other option would be to drop off the old venting to a Habitat for Humanity Restore ... what I do with my extras or leftovers from upgrades

 

[wmarazita]

Selkirk also have the venting with the OAK integrated (broken link removed to http://www.selkirkcorp.com/selkirk/Product.aspx?id=7428)

If you are changing the thimble to accommodate a 4", you might as well check this out and try to sell the pellet vent that came with the stove on craigs list.

Edit: The other option would be to drop off the old venting to a Habitat for Humanity Restore ... what I do with my extras or leftovers from upgrades

Probably not much market for this stove pipe here. Not too too many pellet stoves around. HHR is a great idea though!

 

[wmarazita]

Yeah, better safe than sorry. Go with the 4"

Selkirk is a decent brand. I have Metal-Fab brand on my P68 and have had good luck with it. My P38 has Duravent and it required a lot of silicone.

There's no guarantee any manufacturers pipe won't leak, especially articulating sections such as elbows. If you have silicone and/or tape, you'll be all set.

I'm sure you've read all about OAK's and their benefits. If you're on the fence about doing it, now is a good time to figure out what you want, as you'll be replacing your thimble. I strongly recommend using one.

Ok, thanks for all of the thoughts. I am thinking the best install for me would be this:

1. Re-brick the wall opening where the current thimble goes through the wall and close off that hole.
2. Cut a new hole in the brick wall directly behind the stove and exit the vent and OAK directly out of the stove through the wall (as in the picture). This way all of the 90 degree joints will be outside the house in the event of leaks.
3. Place a "Tee" just outside the house for easy cleanout.
4. Use new 4" Selkirk pipe for venting, Tee, straight pipe and elbow.
5. Install OAK through multipurpose thimble.

Does this sound like a good plan?

Thanks!
Bill

 

[P38X2]

If you don't mind patching your wall, and you have enough clearance to ground outside, you can use your 3" pipe and just go straight out with it. Your EVL will be easily met and you'll save a bunch of $$$ on venting. The straight out install is very common. The Harman thimble you have shown is a very nice unit. There are less expensive options but that one is pretty slick.

How are your brick patching skills?

 

[wmarazita]

If you don't mind patching your wall, and you have enough clearance to ground outside, you can use your 3" pipe and just go straight out with it. Your EVL will be easily met and you'll save a bunch of $$$ on venting. The straight out install is very common. The Harman thimble you have shown is a very nice unit. There are less expensive options but that one is pretty slick.

How are your brick patching skills?

Oh, that is a good idea! I would need 12" clearance from grade, which I think I would make, but will have to check. Wouldn't the OAK be too close to the exhaust though?

Brick shouldn't be too hard to patch.

 

[wmarazita]

Oh, that is a good idea! I would need 12" clearance from grade, which I think I would make, but will have to check. Wouldn't the OAK be too close to the exhaust though?

Brick shouldn't be too hard to patch.

Here are some photos of what I am dealing with. The pellet stove in the photo is no longer there. Soon, the Accentra will sit there!

 

[P38X2]

12" seems a bit low, but if that's what the manual states, you'll be OK. However, you'll need to be absolutely positive there are no combustibles in the vicinity of the vent, particularly on the ground (mulch, etc.) Also, if you get a lot of snow there, you do not want the vent/intake to get buried.

This setup eliminates the need for a clean out T and will make vent cleaning a piece of cake.

The proximity of the OAK intake to the vent is fine. You'll want about 2' of vent extending beyond the outside face of the thimble.

ETA- You'll also want to make sure you don't end up with a joint in the thimble. I'm not sure if that's code or not, but I wouldn't be comfortable with it in my house.

 

[P38X2]

Nice, looks cozy. It'll look better when the new stove is installed

 

[wmarazita]

12" seems a bit low, but if that's what the manual states, you'll be OK. However, you'll need to be absolutely positive there are no combustibles in the vicinity of the vent, particularly on the ground (mulch, etc.) Also, if you get a lot of snow there, you do not want the vent/intake to get buried.

This setup eliminates the need for a clean out T and will make vent cleaning a piece of cake.

The proximity of the OAK intake to the vent is fine. You'll want about 2' of vent extending beyond the outside face of the thimble.

ETA- You'll also want to make sure you don't end up with a joint in the thimble. I'm not sure if that's code or not, but I wouldn't be comfortable with it in my house.

Judging from memory and these photos, I would say that the vent pipe would be about 3' above ground level if I extended directly out the back. There IS mulch on the ground directly under the vent and also a tree that is fairly close. I will have to take better measurements when I get up there. There is also a water pipe in the wall somewhere near this new thimble location. I will have to remove a piece of the house siding and take a look at the entire project. That won't take place till Spring, unfortunately! Snow won't be an issue. We don't get that much in this area of this outlet. There may be tighter restrictions on clearances in my area....it is in the a national forest. More to think about......!

 

[Bioburner]

Can replace mulch with rock of some sort. Surprised with the fire danger etc that you have wood mulch anyway. Just the firefighter in me I guess.

 

[P38X2]

I agree with Bioburner. Replacing an area of mulch with crushed stone would be a piece of cake. The tree is also an easy fix with a shovel or saw. 3' is plenty of clearance from the ground.

Did you determine the manufacturer of your vent that came with the stove? You'll need a termination cap for a horizontal install if it didn't come with one. Also, make sure you have an appliance adapter to go between the stoves exhaust and the beginning of your venting. You probably already have one. It'll be around 4" long.

 

[wmarazita]

Can replace mulch with rock of some sort.

Surprised with the fire danger etc that you have wood mulch anyway. Just the firefighter in me I guess.

Rock: YES! I can definitely replace with rock. Sometimes the obvious eludes me!

Mulch danger: Very good point. They give it away in my location so a lot of people have it around to keep down weeds, etc. I will take your advice though and remove as much as possible away from house.

 

[wmarazita]

I agree with Bioburner. Replacing an area of mulch with crushed stone would be a piece of cake. The tree is also an easy fix with a shovel or saw. 3' is plenty of clearance from the ground.

Did you determine the manufacturer of your vent that came with the stove? You'll need a termination cap for a horizontal install if it didn't come with one. Also, make sure you have an appliance adapter to go between the stoves exhaust and the beginning of your venting. You probably already have one. It'll be around 4" long.

Mulch out. Rock in. Easy peasy.
Tree out.... not so easy peasy. I will take a look at it when I am up there. I'm sure I can work around that.

Venting: I don't see an appliance adapter. I will need one of those. I also don't see a termination cap that would work. The one that came with the used venting appears to be for a vertical install, maybe? There is something on the wall outside right now that terminates where the existing vent is (was). Maybe I can use it. I will get better pictures. As far as the brand of pipe.....I looked and couldn't find any manufacturer's witness marks indicating anything to me. Can someone tell from the photos?

Thanks for the 66 answers/questions so far!

Bill

 

[P38X2]

I suppose there's a good chance that's Duravent, as it's fairly popular and commonly found in BB stores. Looks identical to a section of Duravent I have here, but then again, I'm just going by your pic, and PV generally looks quite similar.

Can you take a section of yours to HD or Lowes, or whoever sells it in your area? If it looks the same and locks together positively, without any slop or funkiness, it's probably Duravent.

You could always just replace it altogether and get the appliance adapter and term cap and have peace of mind.

 

[wmarazita]

I suppose there's a good chance that's Duravent, as it's fairly popular and commonly found in BB stores. Looks identical to a section of Duravent I have here, but then again, I'm just going by your pic, and PV generally looks quite similar.

Can you take a section of yours to HD or Lowes, or whoever sells it in your area? If it looks the same and locks together positively, without any slop or funkiness, it's probably Duravent.

You could always just replace it altogether and get the appliance adapter and term cap and have peace of mind.

I think I need a "special" adapter for the Harman.....is that right? The manual calls for this due to Harman's irregular size. Maybe I will order and see if it snaps together with what I have already. If it does fit the pipe I have, can I cut the pipe to length at the termination point? or does the the pipe have to connect to some type of termination cap with a factory end?

 

[Mt Bob]

(broken link removed to http://www.hearthnhome.com/downloads/installManuals/Accentra.pdf)
For some of the models, they have step-by-step cleaning videos and print instructions on the main page.

If you are at higher elevations, atmospheric pressure is increased and will restrict exhaust more. If you are over 3,000 elevation, they recommend you keep EVL (Equivalent Vertical Length) to 7 if using 3" pipe (over 7, 4" pipe recommended). This is calculated by 90 elbows/cleanouts = 5', 45 elbows = 3, horizontal 1' = 1', vertical 1' = .5' You mentioned 2-90s that equals 10 EVL already.

Just saw you got it figured out....

Atmospheric pressure goes down with altitude,and thinner air is easier to move,but less dense,combustion needs more volumn.

 

[P38X2]

I wouldn't mess around cutting, or otherwise trying to rig anything up. You do not want fire or smoke in your house.

I wouldn't order anything until you're sure of the brand of your pipe. Also, I noticed what I though was red RTV in the seams of what you have. If that's in there, and you need to separate the sections, it could be a pain. You'll need a couple strap wrenches and having a helper would be nice.

 

[wmarazita]

I wouldn't mess around cutting, or otherwise trying to rig anything up. You do not want fire or smoke in your house.

I wouldn't order anything until you're sure of the brand of your pipe. Also, I noticed what I though was red RTV in the seams of what you have. If that's in there, and you need to separate the sections, it could be a pain. You'll need a couple strap wrenches and having a helper would be nice.

Well, if I can't cut the pipe, then I don't think I can use it with this install idea. It is just too long. I will just buy the adapter and a 2' piece of pipe to attach to it and go straight out with it (ideally). How do I terminate outside to protect from weather, birds, etc?

 

[P38X2]

Do you know the approx dimension of the brick, inside to out? I know the rear clearance of the stove is 2.25", but I'm not familiar with the mechanics on the back. If you needed to access anything back there, you'll want room to work and not have to pull the stove out every time. Perhaps you could start a thread, or do a search, for what rear clearances Accentra owners typically use and how much room is an "adequate" amount to have back there.

I looked more closely at your vent pix and can see those are really long sections. Without knowing your intended rear clearance, and how thick that brick wall is, it's tough to suggest any venting configurations. I'm thinking an appliance adapter, 36" section of pipe and a termination cap, would put you in good shape. If you opt to go with new stuff, I wouldn't hesitate to use Duravent, or whatever your BB store sells, reason being you'll have minimal joints and won't have to worry about notoriously leaky elbows. You should be able to get those 3 pieces for around $100. Also, gab some high temp silicone, high temp vent tape, and a couple stainless 1" self tapping sheet metal screws (for securing the adapter to the stove).

Seems like you're settling in on your venting choice. Looking forward to future updates.

 

[wmarazita]

Do you know the approx dimension of the brick, inside to out? I know the rear clearance of the stove is 2.25", but I'm not familiar with the mechanics on the back. If you needed to access anything back there, you'll want room to work and not have to pull the stove out every time. Perhaps you could start a thread, or do a search, for what rear clearances Accentra owners typically use and how much room is an "adequate" amount to have back there.

I looked more closely at your vent pix and can see those are really long sections. Without knowing your intended rear clearance, and how thick that brick wall is, it's tough to suggest any venting configurations. I'm thinking an appliance adapter, 36" section of pipe and a termination cap, would put you in good shape. If you opt to go with new stuff, I wouldn't hesitate to use Duravent, or whatever your BB store sells, reason being you'll have minimal joints and won't have to worry about notoriously leaky elbows. You should be able to get those 3 pieces for around $100. Also, gab some high temp silicone, high temp vent tape, and a couple stainless 1" self tapping sheet metal screws (for securing the adapter to the stove).

Seems like you're settling in on your venting choice. Looking forward to future updates.

Yeah, I think I am really close. The last pieces of the puzzle I won't be able to put together for a couple weeks when I can get to the home. I will take off the plywood exterior siding and get a good look into the wall and see what surprises might be there. I'll take pictures and then get back with a post for final options.

Good idea on the maintenance clearances. I just cleaned it completely so I know what I need to get to. I think I can figure out a good distance and then work the horizontal pipe section length from there.

Total wall thickness is probably about 10 inches (3.5" brick, 2x6 stud, 3/4" siding).

Thanks again for all of the help. I really appreciate it.

Bill

 

[Lake Girl]

Appliance adapter may still be attached to the back of the Accentra. For our termination cap, we have a "turbo" cap which is conical in shape and has an interior screen that keeps out most critters. You may want to think about a solid cap for when you are not using the stove - especially if your away for periods of time in cold weather. Amazing what people have found that had crawled in the venting!

We have Biovent - has the silicone gasket between sections and only requires 3 screws on joints. A bit more expensive but no hassles to assemble/disassemble. Gaskets are replaceable. (broken link removed) Not sure if they carry an adapter for Harman...

Atmospheric pressure goes down with altitude,and thinner air is easier to move,but less denseT,combustion needs more volumn.

Too many years living with a commercial diver where the pressure is always increased Is it Boyle's law, pressure and volume inversely related?