Harman P43 vs Castle Serenity

[bogieb]

Is this fines box area behind the cover the place that the pellets fall into? I took the cover off for the first time awhile ago to check it out. When I was vacuuming it seemed I was sucking pellets out. Does the auger extend into that area? It's really hard for me to see up in there without a mirror or camera

Yes, it is on the right, rear of the stove. Once you get the hang of it, you won't need to see anything except a quick glance with a flashlight to make sure it has been been cleaned to your satisfaction. Like I said, the P43 doesn't seem to collect fines too much. Even then, I don't worry about sucking up a few pellets when I do the monthly cleaning.

This is one place that is a bit awkward to get to for cleaning. It also is another reason for cleaning the distribution fan - when I take the cover off the fines box, sometimes a little comes sprinkling down. Although it is on the cover portion of the distribution air system, I'm sure it is easy enough for some to drift over to the open fan portion.

 

[Whitenuckler]

Yes, it is on the right, rear of the stove. Once you get the hang of it, you won't need to see anything except a quick glance with a flashlight to make sure it has been been cleaned to your satisfaction. Like I said, the P43 doesn't seem to collect fines too much. Even then, I don't worry about sucking up a few pellets when I do the monthly cleaning.

This is one place that is a bit awkward to get to for cleaning. It also is another reason for cleaning the distribution fan - when I take the cover off the fines box, sometimes a little comes sprinkling down. Although it is on the cover portion of the distribution air system, I'm sure it is easy enough for some to drift over to the open fan portion.

View attachment 337193

Thanks, yes I did get in there, and can replace the cover by feel now. One thing I might do is let the stove run out of pellets before cleaning to purge most of the pellets out of that box and auger

 

[Ahoragi]

For reference on what a "Premium Pellet" specs are. These are called by Eastern Embers. We have lots of S/P/F up here so I don't know if you have any options but H/W? These burn really good. Anyway, compare specs ie ash content

Quoted/copied:
Premium Wood Pellet Fuel Burns Hot Burns Clean! See and feel the difference of a truly premium grade wood pellet! Eastern Embers consistency and high quality are made possible by the extraordinary wood fibre derived from our local species of spruce. The high sap content of the spruce fibre translates into high BTU value and more heat per pellet. Furthermore, the fibre is inherently clean, resulting in low levels of residual ash. Eastern Embers meets or exceeds the premium grade standards of the Pellet Fuels Institute.

1. The least expensive pellet may not be your best choice. There can be significant differences between brands of pellets. You need to consider quality (ash, moisture, length, fines, BTU, durability, etc.) when comparing or choosing a pellet fuel. Poor quality pellets that do not perform as expected, or create issues with appliance performance, do not represent good value for money spent.
2. The least expensive pellet may not be your best choice. There can be significant differences between brands of pellets. You need to consider quality (ash, moisture, length, fines, BTU, durability, etc.) when comparing or choosing a pellet fuel. Poor quality pellets that do not perform as expected, or create issues with appliance performance, do not represent good value for money spent.
3. Softwood pellets generally have a higher BTU value than hardwood pellets Softwood pellets generally have a lower percentage of ash (by weight) than hardwood pellets. Softwood pellets generate less harmful airborne particulate emissions than hardwood pellets when burned in appliances.
4. secure supply. A locally made product. Quality you can count on Guaranteed!
5. The standard size bag for North American pellets is 18.1 Kg (40 pounds). Smaller bag sizing can be misleading. To calculate the true cost of a pellet fuel, you need to calculate the cost per pound or Kg.
6. Guaranteed Analysis Grade Premium Material 100% wood Ash less than 0.6% Fines less than 0.5% Sodium less than 300 ppm Eastern Embers is 100% wood and uses no glues or binders.

Cheers​

Thanks for the info. I understand that premium pellets will probably burn better and have less issues with jamming the auger but that was somewhat of my point of liking the Castle stove more because it would burn literally every cheap or high end pellet I threw in it. We used pellets from HD, TSC, and Agway, Agway having the premiums. I sort of expected the same results out of this stove considering it's price tag but it doesn't seem to be and we will have to find the premium pellets next year.

TSC had their $250 per pallet deal as they usually do and are local so we like to use them. Agway is quite a drive but I guess we will warrant it next time.

 

[Whitenuckler]

Thanks for the info. I understand that premium pellets will probably burn better and have less issues with jamming the auger but that was somewhat of my point of liking the Castle stove more because it would burn literally every cheap or high end pellet I threw in it. We used pellets from HD, TSC, and Agway, Agway having the premiums. I sort of expected the same results out of this stove considering it's price tag but it doesn't seem to be and we will have to find the premium pellets next year.

TSC had their $250 per pallet deal as they usually do and are local so we like to use them. Agway is quite a drive but I guess we will warrant it next time.

Wow I just paid $543 Cad for 70 bags (skid) and had to move it all myself at home. Then of course had to pay 15% tax. There was a 10% gov rebate but payed tax on the whole amount I have been told not long ago it was $5 a bag CAD$$ here

 

[Ahoragi]

Wow I just paid $543 Cad for 70 bags (skid) and had to move it all myself at home. Then of course had to pay 15% tax. There was a 10% gov rebate but payed tax on the whole amount I have been told not long ago it was $5 a bag CAD$$ here

That's a bit more. Our tractor supply has them for $4.99 a bag during the deal and sometimes $50 off per pallet on another deal if you pre-order. The store is about 8 miles in town and we have a 4x8 trailer hooked to a 1999 Cherokee. It requires two trips to get that home, so a total of four trips for both pallets (100 bags). This plays a big part in why we prefer to buy from TSC. Agway is probably 20 some miles away and making four trips there is gonna be a chore.

I did attempt one full ton at one time. It was 32 bags in the trailer and 18 inside the jeep. The 32 bags sort of sagged the crossmember in the trailer but the jeep was fine. I outfitted it with HD rear leaf springs plus added another leaf for this purpose. But because of the trailer warping, we do two trips now.

 

[Whitenuckler]

That's a bit more. Our tractor supply has them for $4.99 a bag during the deal and sometimes $50 off per pallet on another deal if you pre-order. The store is about 8 miles in town and we have a 4x8 trailer hooked to a 1999 Cherokee. It requires two trips to get that home, so a total of four trips for both pallets (100 bags). This plays a big part in why we prefer to buy from TSC. Agway is probably 20 some miles away and making four trips there is gonna be a chore.

I did attempt one full ton at one time. It was 32 bags in the trailer and 18 inside the jeep. The 32 bags sort of sagged the crossmember in the trailer but the jeep was fine. I outfitted it with HD rear leaf springs plus added another leaf for this purpose. But because of the trailer warping, we do two trips now.

I have a 2012 Jeep GC. I live close to where I bought them and could go 40kmph in the city. Filled the jeep space 35 bags. Weight was evenly distributed. Had to unload myself. I'm 60 and let me tell you I felt like I got hit by a truck. The second day many bags stayed in the truck. I had to get 70 bags because my HD ran out. Next year I'm placing a delivery order maybe 3 x 70and only $50 delivery

 

[Washed-Up]

$8.70 a bag! WOW I can still find La Crete for $6.99 a bag out here…but have to transport them myself

 

[Whitenuckler]

$8.70 a bag! WOW I can still find La Crete for $6.99 a bag out here…but have to transport them myself

Ya I sure hope I will have some savings on electricity. Of course my heat pump didn't really work at low outdoor temps, and and now I have a heating system that I can run in a power outage. After lugging 70 bags around I am going to love seeing the guy use his forklift and set them down right next to the house!

 

[Washed-Up]

Welp…I will say our electricity isn’t cheap out here in the mountains…however I do meter the pellet stove from January 1-May 30 and even with the outrageous delivery charges it was only about $9 a month to run the stove plus the cost of pellets

 

[Whitenuckler]

Welp…I will say our electricity isn’t cheap out here in the mountains…however I do meter the pellet stove from January 1-May 30 and even with the outrageous delivery charges it was only about $9 a month to run the stove plus the cost of pellets

I have not looked at the cost of running it yet, as pellets cost so much plus the cost of the stove and install,plus the extra house insurance.
Inverter said 180W when feeding pellets, and 120W running the 2 blowers (I have the dist blower on low now for a test).
I will have to guess right now as I don't have an energy meter hooked up to my battery charger. Let's say 150W on average draw from the utility. I am running with an inverter and battery charger so I have extra losses and had to do some guessing. I might have taken the high end. My last power bill before the heat pump was almost $600 with tax for 30 days. I do have number of extra electric heaters I run once and awhile to heat up certain area's like my porch, brew room ect. The only good news is I have lived long enough to start getting CPP VERY soon. Then on the slippery slope to the next gov paycheck at 65.

 

[bogieb]

Pics of energy use for my P43 from my EF battery station that acts as a pass-thru when grid is up, and back up power supply for power outage. The first is for just the two fans running and the second is also while the feeder is running. I can' find the pic of when the igniter is going, but I think it was around 186w).

When the stove is nearly shut down, and only the distribution fan is on, its 70-80w. And of course when it is off, waiting for the thermostat to call for heat, it is drawing nearly zero (which my station/app won't register).

 

[Whitenuckler]

Pics of energy use for my P43 from my EF battery station that acts as a pass-thru when grid is up, and back up power supply for power outage. The first is for just the two fans running and the second is also while the feeder is running. I can' find the pic of when the igniter is going, but I think it was around 186w).

View attachment 337293


View attachment 337294

When the stove is nearly shut down, and only the distribution fan is on, its 70-80w. And of course when it is off, waiting for the thermostat to call for heat, it is drawing nearly zero (which my station/app won't register).

Just the combustion fan and the igniter is about 400W. I have a system like yours I think. Stove attached to sine wave inverter. Inverter connected to battery and battery charger. I will always be at home or coming back when the stove is running. Then I would probably do a controlled shutdown and look at getting my generator running. If I need to restart on my battery alone I would lite manually.

 

[bogieb]

Just the combustion fan and the igniter is about 400W. I have a system like yours I think. Stove attached to sine wave inverter. Inverter connected to battery and battery charger. I will always be at home or coming back when the stove is running. Then I would probably do a controlled shutdown and look at getting my generator running. If I need to restart on my battery alone I would lite manually.

You could be right on how much the igniter draws. I thought I had a picture of when it was starting up, but I can't find it (or deleted it). So I very well could be misremembering. The igniter isn't on for very long - I figured the difference in total power usage between letting the stove cycle and shut down for periods of time with no power draw versus running the stove continuous (so the fans and feeder never stop) probably evened out in the long run. On a super cold and/or windy night, I would need to run continuous though because the stove would short cycle anyway.

I do know that I went thru 2 or 3 start up and heating cycles with 1,024 wh of battery before the battery ran out.

 

[Whitenuckler]

You could be right on how much the igniter draws. I thought I had a picture of when it was starting up, but I can't find it (or deleted it). So I very well could be misremembering. The igniter isn't on for very long - I figured the difference in total power usage between letting the stove cycle and shut down for periods of time with no power draw versus running the stove continuous (so the fans and feeder never stop) probably evened out in the long run. On a super cold and/or windy night, I would need to run continuous though because the stove would short cycle anyway.

I do know that I went thru 2 or 3 start up and heating cycles with 1,024 wh of battery before the battery ran out.

Yes, if you were to watch an auto ignition, the power will jump up to 400W and it stays on for up to 6 or 7 minutes depending on how long it takes the fire to heat up the ESP (I believe). I don't know if there is a cooldown/retry retry cycle like a furnace followed by lockout.
Mine is in the basement with open stairwell and I have a vent now. I have always run mine 24/7 as the room gets to 22C and the rest of the heat goes into other basement areas (I leave most doors open), then upstairs or just heating the ceiling and walls. The least amount of power (60W) is no distribution fan, and then just the feed motor approx 15sec each minute up to 120W.
My inverter has a built in display which is handy to troubleshoot the igniter. If the igniter fails and opens, there will be no extra power draw.
I was going to design an auto shutdown after switching to battery but I figure I will just let it run and decide what to do as I would be returning home within an hour anyway.

 

[bogieb]

I happened to catch the P43 as it was in start up mode, and I specifically watched it until right after the igniter shut off and the distro fan started. All told, 5 minutes.

 

[Whitenuckler]

I happened to catch the P43 as it was in start up mode, and I specifically watched it until right after the igniter shut off and the distro fan started. All told, 5 minutes.

View attachment 337347

View attachment 337348

That sounds good. I learned the lesson yesterday that if you have 400W and it still won't light clean the igniter cavity. If I was using it in thermostat mode in AUTO I would be cleaning that very often. It seems once it's going it will stay going, but if you shut the stove off the ash settles next to the igniter.