Expensive gas prices lead to more EV registrations
- Thread starter begreen
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
The numbers for WA state show that it is going in the right direction. Sales of EVs have been brisk. Teslas are now common on Seattle streets. Statewide, the numbers are different. WA is still in the early stages of EV adoption with 2% of vehicles as EVs but the trend is good.
(broken link removed)
(broken link removed)
I've noticed on our Tesla m3 that consumption is way up in this colder weather. Like you could get under 200wh/mile easily around town in summer and now that has been 300+ on short trips. I will say the heat pump system so far works excellent (gets warmer quicker than my ford fusion) and you can preheat car before work (turn on heated seats/steering wheel). Typically we drive less in winter, but i hope to take at least some sort of roadtrip one of these days. I knew winters eat away at range so no surprise..my gas car mpg also goes from about 25mpg to 20-22mpg in winter (colder the worse).
Is there a low temperature on the Tesla heat pump?. On my Rav 4 Prime (plug in hybrid), it doesnt produce heat under 14 degrees F. I can turn the heat pump on remotely in advance or via an ap (if I wanted to pay for it), but the heated seats, heated steering wheel and windshield wiper defroster have to be turned on inside the car.
Yeah, that's pretty much how it works. In 75 degree weather, no headwinds, going 55 mph on rural back roads that aren't too windy or hilly and I'll get 5 mi/kWh. Around 50 degrees and same I'll get 4.3 to 4.4mi/kWh. Once temps drop solidly into the 20s (and the battery is cold), I'll average 3.5 mi/kWh. Speed really kills efficiency in cold weather, as do snow tires. This is all with a 2019 Chevy Bolt, which has similar efficiency to a Model 3 2WD.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
I gave up and drive the minivan today on a 310 mile road trip. I can’t super charge in cold weather. Drove it around for an hour with heat on this morning and no dice. 500wh/mile while trying to precondition the battery. Last trip in the summer 85-90 driving 75 mph it was 400wh/mile. Drove home at 80 mph nice and toasty right by both my charging stops. 1/4 tank left. Saved 45 minutes. It’s nice to have options. I bet I could have made it. But one of those times 1-2 hours away from a service center it’s not going to charge. Today wasn’t a day to deal with that.
Last week I saw a craiglist posting for piece of equipment I wanted. The poster took overnight to respond and the weather conditions were such that If I didnt pick it up that day it might take a several days to line up schedules to pick it up. My experience with Craigslist is that first one that shows up with cash gets it, so I wanted to pick it up that afternoon. I had already burned up my charge prior to getting the call and since I do not have supercharger capability on my Toyota plug in hybrid, I hopped in the car for the 180 mile round trip drive to pick it up, despite having only about 12 miles of recharge on the battery. Not a problem I had a full tank with 520 miles range and it was mostly rural highway so I got 45 mpg. My battery is only good for 42 mile range this time of year so no matter what I would have burned gas but in mind was that it would be tough for me to have an EV as my only means of travel, until I had longer range or better charging options. I think a lot of folks are still in that mindset.
There were various "fast chargers" along the way to the pick up, including some Tesla superchargers (part of the trip was in VT), but the nearest one to my place along the way was about 45 miles (or 30 miles in the wrong direction).
Years ago I had a Pontiac Fiero which at best had about 280 miles of highway/interstate driving before it ran out of gas, the low tank light would go on at 250, I got stranded once in small town in VT late at night on a cross country trip and it took 2 hours of begging AAA to get a local service provider and the only way I could do it was pay an extra $50 plus the gas to get him to get out of bed and meet me at his gas station. Getting stranded like that really tends to get burned in my mind. I knwo personally is I nearly always keep at least 250 miles of range in my car even though I rarely use it.
There were various "fast chargers" along the way to the pick up, including some Tesla superchargers (part of the trip was in VT), but the nearest one to my place along the way was about 45 miles (or 30 miles in the wrong direction).
Years ago I had a Pontiac Fiero which at best had about 280 miles of highway/interstate driving before it ran out of gas, the low tank light would go on at 250, I got stranded once in small town in VT late at night on a cross country trip and it took 2 hours of begging AAA to get a local service provider and the only way I could do it was pay an extra $50 plus the gas to get him to get out of bed and meet me at his gas station. Getting stranded like that really tends to get burned in my mind. I knwo personally is I nearly always keep at least 250 miles of range in my car even though I rarely use it.
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
7 years old next month and I have 240 miles range. If it would only supercharge 100% of the time I’d be fine with that. Friend of ours has the RAV4 plug in four 8 months now. They waited two to get it and had to drive 7 hours to buy it. I didn’t under why for a two car household that was the choice. Then they got divorced. IT’s purchase made more since after that.
I don't know about that. I do know that if you watch Weber Auto he does a breakdown of the octovalve system in these things and they grab heat from everywhere..even the FSD computer has piping thru it. It can also run the motors inefficiently to create heat for the system. It will be interesting to test it on a -20F morning.
My Ford Fusion has a 17.5 gallon tank so has huge range even at 80mph (gets around 28 to 30mpg at that speed). Also with gas locally at around 2.90/gallon..superchargers are around 35 to 40 cents/kwh. If consumption is 300wh/mile. It wouldn't save me any money driving electric on a roadtrip. Take 1000 miles==$.35x300kwh=$105 (very best case scenario) vs $2.90x35gallons=$101.50
EbS-P
Minister of Fire
One thing to remember on short trips is that cabin heating has a surge at the beginning of trips that then levels out once the cabin is heated up.
For instance, when I drive my Bolt back and forth just a mile to my commuter train in cold weather, it reports awful range estimates (like 180 miles) because it is heating the cabin both ways (even on minimal settings), despite speeds under 30 mph. And yet when I just took a 600 mile round trip drive in the cold over the holiday, my range estimate went UP despite driving at HW speeds.
The 'guess-o-meter' is not as useful as knowing what your car can do in different conditions. If I believed it and assumed I would lose more range at HW speeds, I would never leave my house for a roadtrip.
One of the two reasons why range anxiety for many people is very real - I can just do the math and make the right assumptions and know I am going to be ok. Most people would start their 200 mile trip and the range o' meter would say "140 miles" and they would freak out.
And the second of two reasons why people have range anxiety. A "half tank" = empty, so subtract 200 to 250 miles from an EV's range estimate and you get what probably half the population considers to be the "usable" range. Irrational, but real for many.
Exactly. With respect, many people are functionally innumerate, and either can't do math in their heads, or don't trust the result if they do. I think folks with range anxiety are mostly in this group, no offense.
This is why integrated route planning (that is, integrated with the car itself and its SOC) is so key. The car says... 'we will make it to the SC' rather than 'I can go XXX miles, I think' and leaving the judgement to YOU.
The legacy makers lame attempts to do this thing that Tesla got right years ago... and often their desire to charge you out the nose (like GM wanting $40/mo) for using it... I have no words.
Again, I'm no Tesla fanboy, but ultimately Tesla was willing to think differently about everything regarding EVs, and the legacy automakers are still struggling to figure all this out, or by the time they figure the obvious things out (have a reliable fast-charging network, do integrated route planning with SOC, etc.) the bean counters screw up some other aspect of it (charge $40 per month for the privilege). You'd think that they would at least have made the price for the software seem pretty reasonable ($10/month) and/or marketed it as a nominal fee and then given it away to the original owner of the vehicle. But nope, can't think creatively. It's like the difference between Microsoft/Intel and Apple - one builds hardware and the other provides a worry-free and hassle-free experience.
One would think that the price of the car would be less if a subscription is required. BMW started this and now others are keen to cash in. I don't like the trend at all. Businesses love the subscription model for a predictable income stream, but when they do that they lose me as a customer.
Integrated route planning makes a lot of sense in urban areas but when I am out roaming the wilds, one quarter of Maine has no public power or public roads with a lot of very rural areas that are not going to see a charger for decades due to an inadequate rural grid. I on occasion take a back road at the spur of the moment and having to include a charging session would definitely impact the decision. lalso have over the years been detoured significantly by bad weather events when the grid is usually out. I realize I am atypical, but a lot of the rural west is in similar situation.
The area of NH I live in is on the fringes of a very tourist dependent economy and more than few of the tourist businesses are clamoring for someone else to build a fast DC charger on or near their business. The local car dealers had to upgrade their electrical services to put in the required charge stations which they need to keep their franchise and even then, they are 240 volt stations. The local utility is requesting 4 million to upgrade the local grid to support one supercharger station. In another area nearby, the utility has to be double the size of the local substation as it was not designed for heavy concentrated loads until then if someone wants a supercharger it is going to be diesel powered.
The area of NH I live in is on the fringes of a very tourist dependent economy and more than few of the tourist businesses are clamoring for someone else to build a fast DC charger on or near their business. The local car dealers had to upgrade their electrical services to put in the required charge stations which they need to keep their franchise and even then, they are 240 volt stations. The local utility is requesting 4 million to upgrade the local grid to support one supercharger station. In another area nearby, the utility has to be double the size of the local substation as it was not designed for heavy concentrated loads until then if someone wants a supercharger it is going to be diesel powered.
Similar threads
