My first 650 miles with a BEV

[3fordasho]

2023 Model Y
Used 3,197 kwh to go 9841 miles so far. Used a supercharger once @ $7.60
46% charge at home off solar and 54% at work. I think I had to switch from solar to utility one time in January / February when we had a cloudy week so I probably paid $5-10 to them for charging. Even if I paid utility rates (.11/kwh) all the time the charging costs would be 1/3 of gas or diesel. The utility does offer a .06/kwh rate if I charge only at night and install a second meter.

Tires still look pretty good at just under 10K miles so I hope they'll go longer than others are reporting here.

I've only used my TDI Passat once since purchasing the Model Y and that was for a 1300 mile road trip.

 

[EbS-P]

Shopping for new tires. 21 months and 14k miles I’m down to the inside front left is gone the rest of the left is at the bars. The front right has another 32nd left to the bar. Rears are ok one is new with 6k miles. The other has 3/32nd to the bar.

I don’t drive crazy but it’s probably 13k miles of city driving.

It’s a heavy beast. But we’re talking $70 a month for tires. Granted I didn’t make the best choice with the set lol I put on. Cross Climate SUV. Now I’m considering cross climate 2s. I only need three and I cut a tire in March and they no longer make the SUV flavor. Basically what I save charging for free pays for tires. And a couple months of insurance….

 

[woodgeek]

Yup. I've become a tire nerd and devotee of Cross Climate 2's, which I think are great for my little snow and occasional ice climate. And yes, tires on my EVs cost about the same as propulsion energy, about 4 cents a mile.

I hope to get 20k miles on my CC2s on my Bolt. That and another 10k miles on the OEMs should see me through the lease. I ran the OEMs for the first six months (summer) and will run them the last six months (summer).

 

[EbS-P]

Yup. I've become a tire nerd and devotee of Cross Climate 2's, which I think are great for my little snow and occasional ice climate. And yes, tires on my EVs cost about the same as propulsion energy, about 4 cents a mile.

I hope to get 20k miles on my CC2s on my Bolt. That and another 10k miles on the OEMs should see me through the lease. I ran the OEMs for the first six months (summer) and will run them the last six months (summer).

I think I inadvertently contributed to premature tire wear. Tesla has “range mode” I have gathered it changes the torque split to bias the smaller front motor when enabled. So I was driving a 6000 pound car in FWD for 13k city miles.

Sun going to try and baby the new tires. I do have a wear issue that an alignment didn’t show anything out of spec. Left front inside is wearing faster than outside and faster than the right side.

The inability to rotate directional tires without remounting is a royal PITA. Stupid Tesla…. They had to put different size tires on the back to get the extra 2-300 pound axel weight rating to tow 5k pounds. That meant a different rim width on the back.

 

[woodgeek]

I think I inadvertently contributed to premature tire wear. Tesla has “range mode” I have gathered it changes the torque split to bias the smaller front motor when enabled. So I was driving a 6000 pound car in FWD for 13k city miles.

Sun going to try and baby the new tires. I do have a wear issue that an alignment didn’t show anything out of spec. Left front inside is wearing faster than outside and faster than the right side.

The inability to rotate directional tires without remounting is a royal PITA. Stupid Tesla…. They had to put different size tires on the back to get the extra 2-300 pound axel weight rating to tow 5k pounds. That meant a different rim width on the back.

Ah, that was my question, why not rotate front to back like I do on my Chevy? And you can't!

 

[DBoon]

I have gathered it changes the torque split to bias the smaller front motor when enabled.

Tesla's early claim to fame was that they used an AC induction motor for their powertrain. This was smart (didn't require permanent magnet motors (PMM) that used rare earth materials), but they are larger, heavier and slightly less efficient than a PMM (which they partly made up for by using SiC in their power electronics while others were only using Si). I am pretty sure that when they started adding a motor in the front, it needed to be smaller so it had to be a PMM. Thus it would make sense that for more efficient power consumption, they would use the front PMM for more propulsion and for better range.

I'm 90-95% sure of the above and happy to be fact-checked by those who may have more info/details.

 

[EbS-P]

Tesla's early claim to fame was that they used an AC induction motor for their powertrain. This was smart (didn't require permanent magnet motors (PMM) that used rare earth materials), but they are larger, heavier and slightly less efficient than a PMM (which they partly made up for by using SiC in their power electronics while others were only using Si). I am pretty sure that when they started adding a motor in the front, it needed to be smaller so it had to be a PMM. Thus it would make sense that for more efficient power consumption, they would use the front PMM for more propulsion and for better range.

I'm 90-95% sure of the above and happy to be fact-checked by those who may have more info/details.

The PMM came out in the second generation S and X and then 3 and Y. I have two induction motors. The front being smaller than the rear. Consensus says the range mode only reduces cabin heat /cooling power consumption and changes limits a few degrees where battery heating and cooling kicks on. I don’t get why the smaller from motor would be more efficient.

 

[DBoon]

Hi EbS-P, good to know. Thanks for the clarification. I can't see range extender doing much with two induction motors, at least not enough to offset the excess wear on the front tires when you use range extender.

 

[EbS-P]

N

Hi EbS-P, good to know. Thanks for the clarification. I can't see range extender doing much with two induction motors, at least not enough to offset the excess wear on the front tires when you use range extender.

Nope and the front axles were worn out after 24k miles. I was able to get another 8k out of them.

 

[incinerator]

2023 Model Y
Used 3,197 kwh to go 9841 miles so far. Used a supercharger once @ $7.60
46% charge at home off solar and 54% at work. I think I had to switch from solar to utility one time in January / February when we had a cloudy week so I probably paid $5-10 to them for charging. Even if I paid utility rates (.11/kwh) all the time the charging costs would be 1/3 of gas or diesel. The utility does offer a .06/kwh rate if I charge only at night and install a second meter.

Tires still look pretty good at just under 10K miles so I hope they'll go longer than others are reporting here.

I've only used my TDI Passat once since purchasing the Model Y and that was for a 1300 mile road trip.

How much solar do you have? I have a enough south facing roof (no trees) to support probably 9kw if not a little more. Also have east and west facing sides too. Hip roof with very little pitch. The issue i see is the EV is always gone during the day, so not sure what to do with all that solar when there is nothing to charge.

 

[3fordasho]

How much solar do you have? I have a enough south facing roof (no trees) to support probably 9kw if not a little more. Also have east and west facing sides too. Hip roof with very little pitch. The issue i see is the EV is always gone during the day, so not sure what to do with all that solar when there is nothing to charge.

11k rating on the solar array. (12 x 450w panels and 14 x 395w panels). 70kwh storage in Li iron phosphate batteries. System is not grid tied.

Yes the EV needs to charge during the day unless I want to deplete my storage. That said my EV charging power for the last 10 months and 12,350 miles has come from 43% home(solar) and 57% work. Because I can charge at work for free and the car is at work during the day - I don't dip into my storage for charging because I don't have to so far. I aways have the option to switch back to utility power and charge from that at $.11 per KWH. I've had to do that once when the charger at work was down.

There are days were my storage is charged to 100% by noon and the rest of the day the system pretty much idles only meeting house/shop loads. Having the EV reduces that to some extent but it still occurs.

 

[incinerator]

11k rating on the solar array. (12 x 450w panels and 14 x 395w panels). 70kwh storage in Li iron phosphate batteries. System is not grid tied.

Yes the EV needs to charge during the day unless I want to deplete my storage. That said my EV charging power for the last 10 months and 12,350 miles has come from 43% home(solar) and 57% work. Because I can charge at work for free and the car is at work during the day - I don't dip into my storage for charging because I don't have to so far. I aways have the option to switch back to utility power and charge from that at $.11 per KWH. I've had to do that once when the charger at work was down.

There are days were my storage is charged to 100% by noon and the rest of the day the system pretty much idles only meeting house/shop loads. Having the EV reduces that to some extent but it still occurs.

I want to just do offgrid. I'd like to get a 48v split phase inverter with a set of batteries//but not sure how much i can invest in it. The tech on inverters seems to be really speeding along. I see a lot of people using server rack batteries (48v). I already have a smaller 12v inverter/lfp but don't want to mess with that --the move to 48v seems the best way to go for home.

 

[peakbagger]

I do have the setup that I can store two very large forklift batteries worth of power with my solar trailer and can charge my plug in hybrid several times before I drag the batteries down. I expect with a full BEV I might need to be bit more careful but my worst case the diesel backup would kick in. I only have 2100 watts of panels on the trailer and would need to add additional panels and associated charge controllers to deal with full EV but the batteries could handle it. Given that I have great grandfathered net metering agreement I just pump my excess solar into the grid and use it for a battery and pull out power when I need it. Therefore the solar trailer and inverters are just for standby. You can get a used DC Solar trailer for between 15 and 20K and that is very good start of a packaged off grid, it will put out 240 VAC at 50 AMPs continuous and much higher amperage for shorter durations. The parts are worth more than what they sell for.

 

[3fordasho]

I want to just do offgrid. I'd like to get a 48v split phase inverter with a set of batteries//but not sure how much i can invest in it. The tech on inverters seems to be really speeding along. I see a lot of people using server rack batteries (48v). I already have a smaller 12v inverter/lfp but don't want to mess with that --the move to 48v seems the best way to go for home.

I went off grid as well, my local utility is very hard to work with when going grid tied. The house already had a transfer switch for use with a generator. I simply connect the solar inverter output into the generator side of the transfer switch for house loads. Other outbuildings have a solar sub-box installed and I simply selected certain loads to be powered by the solar system (well pump, all heaters, some lighting).

I have a pair of Growatt 5k inverters running in parallel for a 10K watt output. They can be set up automatically pull from the grid if the batteries reach low state of charge (mine are set at 25%). If I was purchasing inverters now I would select a different inverter that has built in 240/120 spilt phase, mine are 240V and require a separate autotransformer to get neutral for 120V.

I've selected critical loads for the solar so when the utility goes down the important stuff is still powered. This is harder to do with a grid tied system and in some systems if the grid is down everything is down. Basically everything is powered by solar except for the electric kitchen range and the old 3 ton central air which I never use anyway. (mini splits cover the a/c needs and efficiency is much better than my old central air).

The tech is changing rapidly, new inverters and storage coming out all the time. The 48v server rack batteries are what I have. I have my system installed in an outbuilding and have the batteries/inverters in a well insulated 8x8' room. The heat off of the inverters keep it well above freezing which is important for the batteries, they don't like charging in the cold. I do have to run a small window A/C (5k btu) to keep the inverter/battery room between 76F-81F in the summer.

I built my own ground mounts for the solar- directly south facing. I do brush the snow off occasionally in the winter, something to consider when going roof mounted.

 

[EbS-P]

I think the reality is the incentives for grid tied panels will continue to erode. Grid tied storage may continue see some incentives. Duke has really kneecapped new installs. Can only install a system that has max capability of your average monthly usage. I think I read they will require time of use billing and have fixed pice to the grid at whole sale electric price. What I don’t know is if they net metering for the month or if that is on the month. Oh and they raise the base connection fee to 30$ a month.

All in all it seems that a non grid tied system is looking more likely. And if/when we could do vehicles to load and charge on excess solar that would be a decent system.
I’m hoping I can do a 2-3kw install with 10kwh of battery storage. Dc powered mini split and then I could charge. I have a moble Tesla charger that I could plug in to the off grid system but I don’t know of a good way to charge on excess solar (but I haven’t researched much yet).

 

[DBoon]

And if/when we could do vehicles to load and charge on excess solar that would be a decent system.

You can get this today from Solar Edge https://www.solaredge.com/us/products/residential/solaredge-home-ev-charger and likely others as well.

 

[EbS-P]

You can get this today from Solar Edge https://www.solaredge.com/us/products/residential/solaredge-home-ev-charger and likely others as well.

Thanks. I wish I could pull the trigger on a top tier system. Wholly integrated system. I may get serious about researching and design on a home built system.

 

[spoon1]

Nice! I'll have to checkout solar edge

 

[EbS-P]

It’s time for a 2 year update. Year two has only required a new set of tire for maintenance. No other issues (other than the persistent cold weather charging issue that has always been present) have occurred. Mileage this past 12 months is about 9500 miles. 80% of that is city driving. Anew monthly charging record in January with 622 kWh. The car reports an average of 349 Wh/mile.

The charging numbers report a mileage of 456 Wh/mile. Any precondition or usage while parked is not counting in the driving mileage. This I think qualifies the Model Xas an electron hog.

If all charging was done at home at $0.16 / kWh. My cost would have been $693. My cost to drive my van would have been about $1,800 for the same distance.

This year I used the enhanced autopilot for several 150 mile trips. (I have full self driving capability but never got into the beta before the recall when they stopped taking new vehicles) I think for certain circumstances, like when you might be driving when tired or really windy, it is safer. I don’t like how it handles stop and go traffic. It’s definitely a California style and not the Kansas style of driving.

I pass on the opportunity to purchase a drive unit and battery warranty. Cost would have been almost $4000 and would have coverage for 8 years. Time will tell if that was the correct decision (vehicles needed to under 7 years old and it turned 7 in December).

 

[EbS-P]

My window regulator failed this weekend. A couple clunks on the way down. Would not come up under its own power. I was able to wiggle the glass and work the buttons to get it up. Now held in place by a suction cup. Th glas needs to go down from the fully sealed position to open the door, then back up after it’s closed.

Next Tesla service appointment is 4 weeks away. Called around. Found a local repair shop that said if they can get parts they will fix it. Big IF.

 

[EbS-P]

Well here we are 2 moths later. The window got fixed. But when the regulator failed it took out the indoor wire harness. But that harness is hardwired to the mirror motor assembly. That’s a $630 part. So the window will cost $1000 to fix. And the onboard charger got replaced to solve my supercharging issue when it’s cold.

So that’s $7k in repairs in two years. All covered by my warranty that I paid $5800 for. It’s got 6 years and 60k miles left but doesn’t cover the drive unit or battery.

There will be what appears some good deals on used Model X and S coming up but they are going to expensive to keep on the road. I haven’t done the math but just estimating the cost of the covered warranty repairs on my van and the Tesla in the last 24 months it’s probably over $12k. (The van got a new power steering rack and AC control valves Friday.. $3200) I’m unlucky, beat the crap out of my cars, or got lemons (or any combination there of). Because of this was normal I don’t see how these warranty companies stay in business.

Anyway I see the first generation Teslas (S and X) aging like other high performance luxury cars. If you can afford them new, you get another new one before they start to breakdown.

 

[woodgeek]

Well here we are 2 moths later. The window got fixed. But when the regulator failed it took out the indoor wire harness. But that harness is hardwired to the mirror motor assembly. That’s a $630 part. So the window will cost $1000 to fix. And the onboard charger got replaced to solve my supercharging issue when it’s cold.

So that’s $7k in repairs in two years. All covered by my warranty that I paid $5800 for. It’s got 6 years and 60k miles left but doesn’t cover the drive unit or battery.

There will be what appears some good deals on used Model X and S coming up but they are going to expensive to keep on the road. I haven’t done the math but just estimating the cost of the covered warranty repairs on my van and the Tesla in the last 24 months it’s probably over $12k. (The van got a new power steering rack and AC control valves Friday.. $3200) I’m unlucky, beat the crap out of my cars, or got lemons (or any combination there of). Because of this was normal I don’t see how these warranty companies stay in business.

Anyway I see the first generation Teslas (S and X) aging like other high performance luxury cars. If you can afford them new, you get another new one before they start to breakdown.

Yikes. I will say that that sounds expensive to me.

My experience:
EV #1: 2013 Nissan LEAF, 3.5 years at $228/mo lease, little down. Zero maintenance.
bike rider went through rear window and ended up in back seat. Entire hatch door replaced, insurance covered full amount. 3 weeks at Nissan Dealer.
EV#2: 2017 Chevy Bolt, drove for 13 months, $550/mo purchase financing, little down. Zero maintenance or repairs.
Car was totaled after accident, insurance paid off the loan in full. Fed and state incentives were greater than total payments. Car was free on a net basis.
EV#3: 2022 Chevy Bolt, 3.5 year lease, $330/mo after GM rebate check, little down. Zero maintenance or repairs in 24 mos so far.

 

[EbS-P]

Yikes. I will say that that sounds expensive to me.

My experience:
EV #1: 2013 Nissan LEAF, 3.5 years at $228/mo lease, little down. Zero maintenance.
bike rider went through rear window and ended up in back seat. Entire hatch door replaced, insurance covered full amount. 3 weeks at Nissan Dealer.
EV#2: 2017 Chevy Bolt, drove for 13 months, $550/mo purchase financing, little down. Zero maintenance or repairs.
Car was totaled after accident, insurance paid off the loan in full. Fed and state incentives were greater than total payments. Car was free on a net basis.
EV#3: 2022 Chevy Bolt, 3.5 year lease, $330/mo after GM rebate check, little down. Zero maintenance or repairs in 24 mos so far.

Mine is now approaching 8 years old. I’d like to see average repairs for years 6-8 on those cars. Mine only has 44k miles.

these are going to be expensive cars to keep on the road even if the battery and drive units last beyond 150k miles. I was aware of that and purchased the service contract and will sell it a year before it expires as it is transferable.

 

[woodgeek]

Mine is now approaching 8 years old. I’d like to see average repairs for years 6-8 on those cars. Mine only has 44k miles.

these are going to be expensive cars to keep on the road even if the battery and drive units last beyond 150k miles. I was aware of that and purchased the service contract and will sell it a year before it expires as it is transferable.

Oh, I also have a 2015 Volt PHEV, purchased in 2018. Now 9 years old and out of warranty, 55k miles and an ICE engine. Other than some fascia work for a teen fender bender (a few hundred bucks) I have spent $500 to get the heater core fixed. I also think I spend $400 for a new 12V and a few hundred dollars to flush brake fluids 2X and drive unit fluid (at 50k miles).

So, I might be close to $1200 maintenance for 6 years of ownership (not counting tires). All work done by local 'shade tree' shops, usually same day.

When the traction battery goes, its probably a writeoff. Only a few of the 2012's have died so far, I think.

 

[DBoon]

I'll echo what Woodgeek said about the Bolt - essentially zero maintenance. My 2019 bolt (purchased December 2018) is now 5-1/2 years old with 116,000 miles on it. I've done very basic normal maintenance (replaced tires, replaced cabin air filter) and that's it. I had the battery replaced at 70,000 miles as it was recalled. The only paid maintenance required was a tire pressure sensor (one failed at about 60,000 miles, another just failed).

What has had to be replaced was due to weird acts of god - cracked windshield (twice, first time with about 3,000 miles on the car, covered by insurance, both times due to rock hits from trucks), and I had about five different body work dings repaired (tree branch falls, rocks, other weird things) - all in different parts of the car, so basically all of them were $500 each for $2500 total (out of pocket). But that can hardly be blamed on the car itself.