Everything Drolet Tundra - Heatmax...

[laynes69]

I don't feel a grate is the right thing to do. Personally, I had a coaling issue until I reduced the heat load on the house. When the house was drafty and lacked attic insulation, I was forced to keep a flame or get cold. Now with a tighter more insulated home, the fire can run in cycles. Whether smaller loads that put some heat into the home then peter out, or larger loads that last for hours. Three decent sized splits in a coalbed burn for quite some time. Above 25-30 degrees and a half load will take me thru the night with plenty of coals for the morning. Hell...Sometimes in the mid 20's to the 30's, I'll go down to check the fire and it's almost out. The blower hasn't ran in over a half hour and the house is still 73 degrees. With a tighter home, I don't stress about the next load. It was so bad before, when the blower would shutoff, I would scramble to get the woodburner, or the temperature would drop in the house.

 

[brenndatomu]

I don't have much of a coaling issue either...but that is mainly because I refuse to short load (less than 8 hours on a load) IMO, if you have to load less than every 8 hours...then that unit is too small for your heat load...other than maybe during the occasional abnormally low temps, no sense buying a wood burner that is too big 99% of the time...I think most of us have backup methods of heating on those super duper cold nights if the wood fire needs some supplement.

 

[Digger79]

I don't feel a grate is the right thing to do. Personally, I had a coaling issue until I reduced the heat load on the house. When the house was drafty and lacked attic insulation, I was forced to keep a flame or get cold. Now with a tighter more insulated home, the fire can run in cycles. Whether smaller loads that put some heat into the home then peter out, or larger loads that last for hours. Three decent sized splits in a coalbed burn for quite some time. Above 25-30 degrees and a half load will take me thru the night with plenty of coals for the morning. Hell...Sometimes in the mid 20's to the 30's, I'll go down to check the fire and it's almost out. The blower hasn't ran in over a half hour and the house is still 73 degrees. With a tighter home, I don't stress about the next load. It was so bad before, when the blower would shutoff, I would scramble to get the woodburner, or the temperature would drop in the house.

Whats your reason for not liking the use of a grate? I dont want one on the bottom cause I feel coals need to sit at bottom of stove w the way this furnace functions. How ever I thought maybe a grate right in middle of box may help keep ash from top of the load from covering the bottom load. Also gives me a shelf to build smaller fires that will burn near top of box putting out real fast high heat an burning out quickly so u can still put full load in for the night. Be helpful during warmer weather. May just use one during "shoulder season" as u guys say just to make a smaller box. I did kinda like the giant rolling flames from the kindling type high heat fire built simply on bottom of box. That may actually be more beneficial than holding wood load closer to top of box. Curious why u think a crate is not good.

 

[Digger79]

I don't have much of a coaling issue either...but that is mainly because I refuse to short load (less than 8 hours on a load) IMO, if you have to load less than every 8 hours...then that unit is too small for your heat load...other than maybe during the occasional abnormally low temps, no sense buying a wood burner that is too big 99% of the time...I think most of us have backup methods of heating on those super duper cold nights if the wood fire needs some supplement.

What about my grate at center height in the box?? So I can load below an above it.. Other than loosing a little volume in box you think thats bad idea? Good idea? Or just a stupid idea?? Lol

 

[brenndatomu]

What about my grate at center height in the box?? So I can load below an above it.. Other than loosing a little volume in box you think thats bad idea? Good idea? Or just a stupid idea?? Lol

I dunno...I see what you are getting at I think. A good compromise may be a grate that is just high enough to get a few small splits or limb wood under it...that way you would still have the best of both worlds, a few coals left under the grate to make the next load easy to fire...but not too many building up. Could be worth a try if you are having coaling issues...are you?

 

[brenndatomu]

Ok fellas so seems you may be on to something with letting that baro stay shut. I dialed it up so it wouldnt acuate. Freaked me out a little when draft bumped to -.09 , -.10 an I opened it a touch but then decided it was ok

Just so you go into this "eyes wide open" I'd be cautious with allowing the draft to run that high, here's why, since that unit is a warranty replacement for your original...I don't think it has a warranty of it's own (at least as far as cracking) because IIRC, the original SBI warranty said that you would only receive a one time replacement or repair if that ever became necessary. I could be wrong on this, but I don't think so

 

[Digger79]

Just so you go into this "eyes wide open" I'd be cautious with allowing the draft to run that high, here's why, since that unit is a warranty replacement for your original...I don't think it has a warranty of it's own (at least as far as cracking) because IIRC, the original SBI warranty said that you would only receive a one time replacement or repair if that ever became necessary. I could be wrong on this, but I don't think so

according to SBI you are incorrect. I have been closely in touch with them thru out this switching process and expressed concern over the new unit making noises. They assured me if it cracked again they would warranty it again. Its a lifetime warranty maybe not a limited one I dunno but they "said" they'd replace it if it broke again and not to worry... who knows. umm well I dunno I am concerned though cause its been kinda warm like 25-35 and if its drafting up near -.09 in that weather I can only imagine where it may go in say 5 deg weather or -10.. yikes! I may dial it up a bit but I'm pretty sure the baro is going to stay and function to some degree to at least keep it from rocketing over -.09. I think I will stick with .-08 for a target for high draft. If it bumps to -.09 or -.10 for a second thats ok I feel but needs to stay steadily under -.08 as a max in my opinion.

 

[Digger79]

I keep forgetting so long as the high limit switch doesn't fail not having a baro on my setup is not going to be a problem. corry I'm new to this unit. lol. I still wan't the draft under a mechanical control just incase something else fails with the snap disc or temp controller. No this stove doesn't seem it can over draft with the damper shut and a 15' chimney no matter what you put in it. I loaded it to the top last night above the door! not far but above it. baro locked.. barely bumped to -.09 a few times stayed around -.08 while damper was open but high limit shut er down pretty fast. rode at -.06 thru -.08 for a long damn time though.

according to SBI you are incorrect. I have been closely in touch with them thru out this switching process and expressed concern over the new unit making noises. They assured me if it cracked again they would warranty it again. Its a lifetime warranty maybe not a limited one I dunno but they "said" they'd replace it if it broke again and not to worry... who knows. umm well I dunno I am concerned though cause its been kinda warm like 25-35 and if its drafting up near -.09 in that weather I can only imagine where it may go in say 5 deg weather or -10.. yikes! I may dial it up a bit but I'm pretty sure the baro is going to stay and function to some degree to at least keep it from rocketing over -.09. I think I will stick with .-08 for a target for high draft. If it bumps to -.09 or -.10 for a second thats ok I feel but needs to stay steadily under -.08 as a max in my opinion.

 

[Digger79]

I dunno...I see what you are getting at I think. A good compromise may be a grate that is just high enough to get a few small splits or limb wood under it...that way you would still have the best of both worlds, a few coals left under the grate to make the next load easy to fire...but not too many building up. Could be worth a try if you are having coaling issues...are you?

nah not really just like to stay distracted. life's boring. I mean sometimes.. it depends on what I do but I have pretty much figured out how to avoid it. Achieved near ideal burns several times with perfect coals and at times none! lol. I like your thought on maybe lowering a crate just a little from center as you described. One of my concerns with the crate and one reason I don't use it now is getting the old ash out. I hate pulling grates in and out of a firebox to clean it well. ick. did it for years with the fireplace. So part of the reason I wanted it roughly in the middle.. of the door opening really not the actual box. So I can still clean out well.

 

[brenndatomu]

Don't "bet the farm" on the high limit switch saving you...it is still possible to overfire with the intake damper closed...if you get a full firebox of something real dry, and real potent, (like Locust or Hedge) rolling good on secondarys...with a high draft...the firebox temp will just keep rising. Keep in mind SBI says anything over 700* internal flue temps is too hot. They say 350-550 should be the day to day operating temps for internal flue temps.

 

[Digger79]

Well today loaded in 5 minutes at 6:45am and walked out the door. Tried the high draft thing didnt work as well as last night. I did come home to a 69 deg house at 5:30pm. High temp was 35 today roughly but most day round 25-30 deg. Anyways here's what I had left in box today after 10.75 hrs.

Now thats what I call coal. Those r hard solid coals that do not break apart very easy. However had no wood oil mess of any kind, no black staining on glass. I dunno house was 69 deg after almost 11 hrs doesnt seem bad.

Here simply some sweet dang pics of tonights "Brenndatamo Fire" ! Lol

This one looks like the flames are jumping right out of the furnace! Haha!

And these r just awesome!

 

[Digger79]

Yo Brenndatamo, you see that little ghost flame in the back top left corner. Looks like its coming out of a weld there at the corner of the trietary burner tube housing. Only happens when I get the fire ripping super hot. What you think bout that? I mean who cares really I don't see it as an issue for any reason.

 

[Digger79]

Don't "bet the farm" on the high limit switch saving you...it is still possible to overfire with the intake damper closed...if you get a full firebox of something real dry, and real potent, (like Locust or Hedge) rolling good on secondarys...with a high draft...the firebox temp will just keep rising. Keep in mind SBI says anything over 700* internal flue temps is too hot. They say 350-550 should be the day to day operating temps for internal flue temps.

Agreed. I mentioned in all my babble today the damper is staying and staying active. I will dial it up some but monitor. been good on full loads of hickory but not honey locust, or osage or white oak/hickory mixes nor in negative temps outdoors. I have settled on keeping draft relatively under -.08 at all times as a max. Baro damper is a nice trust worthy mechanical fail safe for the flu. It stays.

 

[brenndatomu]

Dude! That first fire pic from tonight is awesome! That should be your new avatar pic

 

[Digger79]

Man I have never seen those igniter tubes light up quite so fiercely before. With the draft cranked the fire is roaring across the top of the box like a blast furnace! lol. The sweet thing is Brenndatomu thru all this testing (very carefully and monitored at first) of the higher drafts the firebox never even gets over 350. Its weird. I think I see what Lynes69 is driving at. I mean dude the draft is nearing -.10 and I am freaking out but the stove never hit over 350 on the lower face therm and the HE face therm never gets over 300 rarely maybe 325. Thats on super hot loads with draft way up. damper locked. Before with the old stove I was hitting 450-475 on lower therm and 350-400 at times on the higher therm. The higher I turn up the draft and longer I keep the damper closed the more heat seams to be driven into the house. I dunno. Im telling you man this stove just doesn't get hot. I can stand there with my hand on top the plenum in the middle most the time. Not on initial surge but through out entire initial surge load I can absolutely keep my hand on the top just not so close to the very center. The stove runs cold on the outside compared to the last one. The heat is going somewhere and the house seems much much warmer much easier with much less wood on this model over the first. If the high limit fails though could be in trouble so again. baro def stays.

 

[DoubleB]

that little ghost flame in the back top left corner.

(Although I'm not @brenndatomu ) I agree it doesn't hurt performance, but it might be a mark against workmanship.

As for grates, one of my hesitations is how to readily scoop out ashes below the grate so that enough air can get underneath to improve things. Piecing together what others have said: I don't need more than 3 loads per day on 95% of the time. With the "burn coals" switch that opens the damper when temps are low, I can burn off almost all coals in 8 hours or less. So I usually don't have a coaling issue, and can work around it on the 5% of the days that need more loads.

@Digger79 , didn't you say in a previous post that you rent your house? It's not common to hear of landlords allowing renters to install a wood-burning appliance, let alone the renter going ahead and buying a furnace once and installing it twice. Sounds like a fun story!

 

[Digger79]

Hey your short hot high pile fires are fun Brenndatomu but the seem fairly equal to my larger 4 hour burns I was doing in the evenings before bedtime loads.. bedtime loads..umm getting a bit racy for a stove forum.. ahem anyhow back to stoves.. but the high pile fires are much more fun!

 

[Digger79]

Dude! That first fire pic from tonight is awesome! That should be your new avatar pic

yeah but prob not so awesome in a tiny little thumb nail pic.

 

[Digger79]

(Although I'm not @brenndatomu ) I agree it doesn't hurt performance, but it might be a mark against workmanship.

As for grates, one of my hesitations is how to readily scoop out ashes below the grate so that enough air can get underneath to improve things. Piecing together what others have said: I don't need more than 3 loads per day on 95% of the time. With the "burn coals" switch that opens the damper when temps are low, I can burn off almost all coals in 8 hours or less. So I usually don't have a coaling issue, and can work around it on the 5% of the days that need more loads.

@Digger79 , didn't you say in a previous post that you rent your house? It's not common to hear of landlords allowing renters to install a wood-burning appliance, let alone the renter going ahead and buying a furnace once and installing it twice. Sounds like a fun story!

He allowed me to install the insert in the fireplace. Its safer than the fireplace was. lol. its pretty old and he had to maintain it. clay liner not in the best shape. told him let me do the stove I'll take care of cleaning it of course. He allowed it. The Tundra you see is in the separate garage that I built on the property when my old landlord owned it. That guy lived on the other side of my 2.5 acre lot. He'd let me get away with growing dope if I wanted to and they kinda encouraged it lol although its not my thing just and idea of how lax they are. Old landlord says he's getting stoned as Hell when he retires in a few years! lmao. Well so the guy on the other side of me wound up buying the property and renting to me. He's the one whom allowed the drolet insert in the fireplace. I had always had a wood stove in the garage that already existed on his property before he purchased it. The spoken agreement was and is that I will demo my shack of a garage. It is a 22x12 ft pole barn style 4 hip roof side with primed smart paneling (crappy cheap 4x8) no plywood sheathing just the siding. The only thing I did with out asking him was disconnect a few ducts from the gas furnace and cap them at his trunk and hook up a few registers to my trunk lines coming in thru the crawl space. Its all good I can rip it out and reconnect his stuff in a half of a day. I want to buy the property and am trying but have very poor economics, its just me out here. bout a 140k property on 2.5 acres in the country. 10 mins from the interstates. Its nice. Any ways thats pretty much the story there. He lives next door but leaves me alone and wants left alone just wants rent every month and wants me to maintain the house and the property less any major costs of repairs like the water heater. I had to replace it but he of course bought the water heater. But I'm a General Contractor so home remodeling is pretty easy for me.

 

[laynes69]

Those splits are pretty small. A firebox full of small splits with alot of space will cause some hot, uncontrollable fires. Larger splits with less air gaps will create a more stable, longer burn. The units do require a good draft, as do all modern stoves. Draft will peak, but will not stay there as the damper closes. The way I see draft, if the unit is controllable and doesn't run away it's not a problem. Getting 10-12 hours burns is far from a run away furnace. If you were packing the firebox and getting 4 hours, I'd say there's a problem. I honestly think your chasing your tail. If your getting 10-12 hour burns and your happy then your doing better than many people. There's people out there wishing they had burntimes like that, that are chewing thru wood like candy. Trust me, my old furnace could easily blow thru twice the wood in a single cycle.

 

[Digger79]

Those splits are pretty small. A firebox full of small splits with alot of space will cause some hot, uncontrollable fires. Larger splits with less air gaps will create a more stable, longer burn. The units do require a good draft, as do all modern stoves. Draft will peak, but will not stay there as the damper closes. The way I see draft, if the unit is controllable and doesn't run away it's not a problem. Getting 10-12 hours burns is far from a run away furnace. If you were packing the firebox and getting 4 hours, I'd say there's a problem. I honestly think your chasing your tail. If your getting 10-12 hour burns and your happy then your doing better than many people. There's people out there wishing they had burntimes like that, that are chewing thru wood like candy. Trust me, my old furnace could easily blow thru twice the wood in a single cycle.

Yeah but those fires are awesome! lol. It's not hurting anything. Your right of course the draft bounces around a bit more but as I mentioned early in the thread this stove is one seriously cool customer. the exterior gets 1/4 of the temps the old one did. about 1/2 as hot on the face. Im not sure what all they did different in side completely yet but the thing is ice cold compared to the first unit.(course it gets hot its a wood stove). But I can have my hands all over it even during hot loads. just not the face of the stove. lol. plenum can get hot but outer edges never to hot to handle. I got tough carpenter hands though. I grab coals and toss em quickly back in from the shovel. lol. with my fingers. Even under the loads where I been raising the draft and closing the damper and as a matter of fact when I raised the draft super high and kept the damper closed the outside of the stove actually ran cooler and the house temps where better. I think Im starting to see what you are getting at with how you run your stove and I think I like it. I still am keeping baro and keeping draft under .-08 as general max. I'm ok with it bumping above that for a sec or two but prefer it stays closer to -.08 as a max. Before this convo I was trying to keep it from going over -.06 cause the stupid SBI manual said -.04 thru -.06 was ideal.. I guess they want to cover there rears so they don't have to replace any more stoves. lol. Yeah I get good burns, yes I am chasing my tail I already admitted that. Its kinda an obsession. I am pretty sure Im getting longer burns with higher heat with adding some of your methods but not sure yet. I had a 14 hour burn the other day and house only got down to 64-65 deg after 14 hours and hight temp outside that day was like 25. Considering the stove is in the separate garage.. yeah Im fine I know. We honestly have Brenndatomu to thank for all that so I got to give him kudos. He clued me in on the mods and setups. I was sniffing at it my self and googling how to control 24 vlt systems when I ran across one of his comments on the Arboristsite.com website. He was nice enough to guide me into peak operation of this thing.. the old one then I found the cracks after reading about all the issues people had. I have a blast messing with this thing though and have built smoke free EPA style stoves from barrel setups, made mini gasifiers. Im just a wood burning nerd. Aren't we all? Isn't that why we are all here rambling? lol

 

[Digger79]

Those splits are pretty small. A firebox full of small splits with alot of space will cause some hot, uncontrollable fires. Larger splits with less air gaps will create a more stable, longer burn. The units do require a good draft, as do all modern stoves. Draft will peak, but will not stay there as the damper closes. The way I see draft, if the unit is controllable and doesn't run away it's not a problem. Getting 10-12 hours burns is far from a run away furnace. If you were packing the firebox and getting 4 hours, I'd say there's a problem. I honestly think your chasing your tail. If your getting 10-12 hour burns and your happy then your doing better than many people. There's people out there wishing they had burntimes like that, that are chewing thru wood like candy. Trust me, my old furnace could easily blow thru twice the wood in a single cycle.

And I get what your saying about the longer burns and better control but thats not what I am shooting or with this tiny split towers. Im just having fun and want the coals gone so I don't mess up the evening load before bed. and drive some heat in the house. If Im busy I'd load a proper 4 hour fire I believe then go reload around 10-10:30. Last night I stayed up till 11 and loaded stove.. was too late at night for how early I was getting up and wanting to reload. Well fire was too big for a 8 hour burn was the problem. should loaded it much lighter that late at night. lesson learned.

 

[Digger79]

And I get what your saying about the longer burns and better control but thats not what I am shooting or with this tiny split towers. Im just having fun and want the coals gone so I don't mess up the evening load before bed. and drive some heat in the house. If Im busy I'd load a proper 4 hour fire I believe then go reload around 10-10:30. Last night I stayed up till 11 and loaded stove.. was too late at night for how early I was getting up and wanting to reload. Well fire was too big for a 8 hour burn was the problem. should loaded it much lighter that late at night. lesson learned.

Those splits are pretty small. A firebox full of small splits with alot of space will cause some hot, uncontrollable fires. Larger splits with less air gaps will create a more stable, longer burn. The units do require a good draft, as do all modern stoves. Draft will peak, but will not stay there as the damper closes. The way I see draft, if the unit is controllable and doesn't run away it's not a problem. Getting 10-12 hours burns is far from a run away furnace. If you were packing the firebox and getting 4 hours, I'd say there's a problem. I honestly think your chasing your tail. If your getting 10-12 hour burns and your happy then your doing better than many people. There's people out there wishing they had burntimes like that, that are chewing thru wood like candy. Trust me, my old furnace could easily blow thru twice the wood in a single cycle.

BTW the 14 hour burn still had hot enough coals to re light. took a few minutes to fire em with the door cracked but it fired after a minute or so.

 

[DoubleB]

He clued me in on the mods and setups.

I'm starting to think of the Tundra (once SBI works out the bugs) as a Honda Civic of cars: inexpensive, good performance, and the overwhelming favorite to modify with performance upgrades. Over-temp controllers; coal-burning mods; damper control with tstat and timers; air inlet size; and now we're working on infinitely-variable blower speeds.

Granted, a few of these mods could be or are already included in other furnaces. And I'm certainly not advocating making unsafe modifications or violating warranties. Just that the Tundra seems to have a much larger following than other furnaces on this forum, and a lot of the discussion seems about how to customize it to each user's preferences.

Not sure what my point is beyond that, but it almost gets fun!

 

[Digger79]

I'm starting to think of the Tundra (once SBI works out the bugs) as a Honda Civic of cars: inexpensive, good performance, and the overwhelming favorite to modify with performance upgrades. Over-temp controllers; coal-burning mods; damper control with tstat and timers; air inlet size; and now we're working on infinitely-variable blower speeds.

Granted, a few of these mods could be or are already included in other furnaces. And I'm certainly not advocating making unsafe modifications or violating warranties. Just that the Tundra seems to have a much larger following than other furnaces on this forum, and a lot of the discussion seems about how to customize it to each user's preferences.

Not sure what my point is beyond that, but it almost gets fun!

Agreed.