Everything Drolet Tundra - Heatmax...
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For how long the VF furnaces have been around... a guy would think it's already been done. Also the 2020 epa has been set in stone already for some time.
Maybe the company's are milking old technology for long as they can before releasing their kuuma knock off?
Once the Tundra/Heatmax 3 comes out (or whatever they are gonna call it).. long as it has a stepper motor and price isn't ridiculous I will replace my T2. Regardless of picture window although it would be missed.
Gbawol42
Burning Hunk
That window does put out a lot of heat. I can barely sit in front of it most of the time without burning my legs. If they figure out how to keep it though would be a step in the right direction
JRHAWK9
Minister of Fire
....and that's probably one of the reasons why they don't do it. Delivered efficiencies are not all that great to begin with on wood furnaces. Having that window, you are not only losing delivered efficiency, but I would also guess you are losing some internal firebox temps which may also have an impact on combustion. I know Daryl told me they tried having a window but they did not see the results they wanted with one. Their sauna stoves do have a window, but they are also 100% radiant heat, so a little lost to the window vs heating up the water/stones is not a big deal. It's still going to heating up the small sauna building.
Does the "delivered" heat not include that lost through the window? I mean, if they just consider all of the potential heat from the wood charge and subtract the measured heat lost through the chimney then the rest is "delivered" and would include the window losses. The test would similarly disregard duct losses.
I think it's more about emissions and maintaining high firebox temperatures is more difficult with a big, cold, window sucking out heat. Maybe a double pane window like woodstock stoves use would help.
JRHAWK9
Minister of Fire
Yes, correct. Delivered means JUST the heat delivered through the ducts and does NOT include any radiant heat lost off the face, etc which does not make it through the ducts. What you mention is referred to as stack loss efficiency and is a more accurate way to depict efficiency including what is delivered and what is radiated.
In the attached paper Daryl wrote, what I call "delivered efficiency" is what Daryl refers to as "direct heat output efficiency
percentage"
(broken link removed)
Gbawol42
Burning Hunk
Is there not a different type of glass that doesn't let the heat out as much? Or just generally reflect back more?
I remember someone talking about changing their glass to a more reflective glass awhile back, curious how his glass change effected his operation.
There are stove brands, concerned with efficiency, that use double pane glass. That has to reduce heat loss.
That guy is me. I installed IR coated glass, and I like it. I don't have any data on whether I get more heat in the house, but I believe I do: the damper is controlled according to flue temp, so I'm not necessarily simply sending more heat up the stack, and the difference in heat loss to the furnace room is considerable.
Where I got it, etc, is here:
Everything Drolet Tundra - Heatmax...
I will go on record here...I bet it's basically the same furnace, but they actively monitor and control the firebox temp using a stepper motor on the damper... ::-) I doubt they be able to do a retro kit for their old furnaces since it would require some kind of sensor to be in the firebox. :(...
www.hearth.com
I'm looking at prices right now on the Drolet Heatpro. From what I read here they will be coming out with a newer version soon? I have until September to install a wood furnace, but I'm the do it right now kind. Should I hold off for a few months?
Gbawol42
Burning Hunk
If you can wait, I would. It shouldn't be long before the new versions are announced. Also the previous models should be discounted.
This may be why a number of places I checked said discontinued.
The new regs take effect in May right?
I'll be disappointed if they no longer have glass doors tho.
Am I missing something in comparing the Heatpro with the Max caddy? They are almost identical right? The best price I could find for the Max Caddy was more than 5K delivered vs 2599 for the heatpro. What gives?
Hard to say...discounted prices now...vs ? $ on the new ones...plus HP is a proven design now...but will they still be good in the first year or two of a new design? Tundra 1 didn't work out too well for them.
May 15th.
HP vs Max...Max is sold dealer only, so more markup there I'd say...plus Max is just the "premium" version of the HP...Ford/Lincoln type of thing.
When the Tundra came out it had (2) 8" duct connections instead of using a plenum like the Caddy...easier for DIY'rs to hook up. But then Drolet claimed that was too restrictive and went back to the plenum setup on the Tundra II...HP went with the plenum connection from day one...the Caddys used to have premium controls too...but T2 and HP have controls very similar (identical?) to the Caddys now...plus the Caddys can be set up for multifuel too.
Some people think that the Caddys are made with thicker and/or better quality metal too...its possible, but I personally kinda doubt that...
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Replacement door from T2 is $160 -- could swap it into the T3, likely.
I wouldn't be afraid to try the new version unless it is radically different. Or way more money.
According to both websites the thickness of the fire boxes are the same. Could be a difference in quality of steel tho.
The only real differences I notice other than price, plenum, and multifuel option is the size of the blower motor. The controls on the heatpro are not as fancy but work in the same way. I haven't compared them side by side in real life tho.....
If they do sub a stepper motor on the damper, it might be $$. I couldn't find a way to do it that was remotely affordable, but I admit I'm a sheer novice in that area.
I'd happily pay T2 price plus, say, $750 for a T3 with a stepper; even automated, the current on/off damper is a little lame. I'd throw in another $100 if it had IR coated glass. Another $100 with a variable (as with the blower mod that I haven't gotten to on mine yet) blower.
And Bluetooth...something...Alexa...something...
Gbawol42
Burning Hunk
I guarantee if they come out with a stepper motor for the damper (which I will admit I would love) someone on this forum will somehow rig it to his T2 and get it to work.If they do sub a stepper motor on the damper, it might be $$. I couldn't find a way to do it that was remotely affordable, but I admit I'm a sheer novice in that area.
I'd happily pay T2 price plus, say, $750 for a T3 with a stepper; even automated, the current on/off damper is a little lame. I'd throw in another $100 if it had IR coated glass. Another $100 with a variable (as with the blower mod that I haven't gotten to on mine yet) blower.
And Bluetooth...something...Alexa...something...
Just to be clear, IF anybody still has HP's in stock on May 15th...they can't sell it to you...at least not legally.
I thought they just couldn't manufacture them after it takes effect. Surely they will release a new model before the old ones are gone.
Nope...no sell through on this one...if dealers still have pre 2020 certified models in stock...they are stuck with them...not sure if they have to return them, cut 'em up, or what?
Yeah, I would have expected to see new models by now...makes a guy wonder what the hold up is...they wait too much longer and Lamppa will have the only wood furnace available in the states...
Yeah, I sure would try. I don't imagine they'll redesign any more than they have to, so new additions might fit the T2.
So maybe I'll order one now and return it if I like the new one better!
Is it possible they are just not going to bother with the US market on this?
