Electric cars and CO2 emissions

[Ashful]

What I wonder is, how many of those folks putting 100k - 200k miles on their truck in 10 years would really go EV for their truck, if it were available. Too many I see treat their truck as a style symbol, and probably fear their manly unit might shrink an inch, if their pickup weren't loud enough.

 

[woodgeek]

I suspect the EV pickups will come with downloadable engine noises.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I suspect the EV pickups will come with downloadable engine noises.

ID be fine with a completely silent pickup except you might have people walking out in front of you.

 

[woodgeek]

At low speeds, its the dogs that get freaked out. I think they hear regular cars coming at 100 yds, and they are often 'startled' when they turn to see what the VPN noise is, and its a car.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

They freak me out in parking lots. I usually hear a gas powered vehicle running. I've had a few hybrids lurch out without warning when walking by.

 

[woodgeek]

I'm no danger in parking lots. Mine has a 'backing up alarm' whenever its in reverse, and a 'burbling' VPN noise whenever it is going forward between 5 and 30 mph.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I wonder what their reasons are? Needing more range? More room?

I'm not sure I'd buy the gas price argument. I think most realize gas will eventually go back up in price. Most likely sooner than later.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/21/record-numbers-of-drivers-trading-in-electric-cars-for-suvs/

 

[woodgeek]

I wonder what their reasons are? Needing more range? More room?

I'm not sure I'd buy the gas price argument. I think most realize gas will eventually go back up in price. Most likely sooner than later.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/21/record-numbers-of-drivers-trading-in-electric-cars-for-suvs/

The article is junk. Sales of traditional hybrids (like the Prius) have flattened out over the last couple years (before gas prices fell), and some commentators have been lumping EVs (both battery and plug-in hybrid) with those numbers and saying the 'entire category is down'. The whole Obama angle is a bit of a tell for the article agenda, IMO.

Actual sales numbers show that EV sales have been rising 20-30% per year since introduction (only in December 2010, just 4.5 years ago), including last year. In 2014 EV sales in the US were 1.4% of all new cars (all EV models are cars), or 0.7% of all light vehicles (including SUVs and pickups). This is a more rapid growth curve than seen in traditional hybrids (10 years earlier), despite the logistical issues of having to install a charger in your home or apt building, limiting public charging infrastructure, etc.

EV sales growth is slowing, most likely due to the fact that the big selling models are getting due for an update....some folks are waiting for the 2016 Volt, the Tesla Model X (delayed), the Gen 2 Leaf or Tesla Model 3 (both 2017?), etc. The used EV market is still in its infancy (given the tiny sales volume in 2011-2012) but exists and used EVs are selling.

I can certainly believe that regular hybrid sales are flat or down, perhaps the market for efficient cars was saturated, folks only got them for the mileage (not the fun driving experience), EVs might eat into their sales from the green end (I would never get a Prius), etc. I can beleive those are sensitive to gas prices, and folks were adapting to gas prices even before the prices collapsed.

In contrast, most folks that get EVs say they 'will never go back', and love the electric driving experience and the low maintenance, etc. Folks that are less happy with their EVs still love the segment, and tend to switch to EVs from different makers.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I think the O angle was bogus also. I was wondering what the if definition of SUV was. Are we talking truck frame like a Suburban or a small one like a RAV4?

Are those sensitive to gas prices really buying an EV? It seems like if gas price was that big of an issue they would be going for a lower priced car or used model.

 

[woodgeek]

The original presser was from Edmunds.

Discussion here: (broken link removed to http://insideevs.com/edmunds-electric-cars-struggle-to-maintain-owner-loyalty/)

Also picked up by Rushbo today....so its making the rounds.

 

[begreen]

I have every reason to hate our Volt. It's been into the shop for warranty repairs more than any car I've owned. Chevy decided to substitute cheaper parts in a few areas in our model year and each one has had to be replaced. Add to this a sloppy dealer service dept. and I should hate the car, but I don't. I like it more than any new car I've owned in spite of its flaws and crappy service. Why? Because it is a joy to drive. I love driving silently on electric power. But more than that I love the way the car handles and feels. And I love the flexibility to go all electric for local driving but not be range restrained for trip driving. We recently did a round trip to Cailfornia, down I5 at 70 mph, then crossing through the incredibly windy switchbacks in the redwoods, and out onto the coast. The car was a pleasure to drive, no, it was actual fun to drive. Regen braking is a delight for negotiating tricky downhill curves. And the car had plenty of guts for keeping up with traffic through mountain passes. Trucks, high crosswinds, barely budged the car. This is the combo that should sell electric cars. They should be a great driver as well as a wonderful combination of efficiency and flexibility.

 

[iamlucky13]

Interesting that some would put their teen in some of these small cars. They might save on gas, but are so light weight they are effectively a hockey puck on wheels. I know somebody is going to bring up crash ratings, but put up against my truck, which I'm sure has a lower rating, I'll pick the truck and use the volt/leaf to help slow me down.

The other thing that comes to mind is auto maintenance. These newer cars really won't have any. But I guess none of them really do now. Kids aren't going to learn how to do any work on their own vehicle. It was years for me before the time/money balance swung to the side where I wanted free time more than do maintenance on a vehicle. I like working on them, but would rather play with the kid, etc. I'll have to change back when she gets a bit older so she'll feel confident if she needs to do the maintenance herself on her car. It really rubs me the wrong way when the oil change places do scare tactics on my wife.

I drove a small car as a teen. I drive a small car now. I'd have no qualms about putting a responsible teen in one. The far biggest factor in safety is the driver, not the car. In my opinion, if the teen isn't safe enough to trust in a small car, they definitely aren't safe enough to put in a big car, where they can still harm themselves and can increase the risk of harming others. Any kids of mine are also going to be paying their own insurance at a minimum, so they have a clear stake in keeping their record clean, in addition to knowing that driving is a privilege they can lose, not a right.

And looking past that, yes, I'll bring up the numbers - not to knock your truck, but just because I'm a numbers guy. If you look up the actual IIHS data on vehicle safety, while it does indeed show a higher risk of death in smaller cars than larger ones, there's as much variation within size categories as between them. Bet you didn't know, for example, the Ford Expedition has a higher occupant fatality rate than the Toyota Corolla (36 deaths per million vehicle years vs 32).

As for maintenance, I'm definitely going to teach my kids how to do the basics - oil, oil and air filters, spark plugs, tires, and inspecting brakes, as well as identify all the major items under the hood and what they do. That way, even if they take their car to the shop after they're on their own, they understand what they're being told and stand a decent chance of identifying bologna.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I have every reason to hate our Volt. It's been into the shop for warranty repairs more than any car I've owned. Chevy decided to substitute cheaper parts in a few areas in our model year and each one has had to be replaced. Add to this a sloppy dealer service dept. and I should hate the car, but I don't. I like it more than any new car I've owned in spite of its flaws and crappy service. Why? Because it is a joy to drive. I love driving silently on electric power. But more than that I love the way the car handles and feels. And I love the flexibility to go all electric for local driving but not be range restrained for trip driving. We recently did a round trip to Cailfornia, down I5 at 70 mph, then crossing through the incredibly windy switchbacks in the redwoods, and out onto the coast. The car was a pleasure to drive, no, it was actual fun to drive. Regen braking is a delight for negotiating tricky downhill curves. And the car had plenty of guts for keeping up with traffic through mountain passes. Trucks, high crosswinds, barely budged the car. This is the combo that should sell electric cars. They should be a great driver as well as a wonderful combination of efficiency and flexibility.

I bet they can place the battery down low for a wonderful center of gravity.

 

[begreen]

Yes, exactly. Coupled with a good suspension it makes for a nice ride and tight handling. It doesn't hurt that it looks sharp too.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Here's a different variable for vehicle safety...

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/how-the-size-of-your-wallet-protects-you-in-a-car-123390976917.html

 

[jebatty]

So I guess a very expensive all-electric small car is much more safe than a cheap, high mass, big car or truck? My take is that safety is more related to engineering and physics than the size of a person's wallet, unless the wallet is equipped with air bags. That's not to say that engineering and physics has nothing to do with price.

 

[Ashful]

Here's a different variable for vehicle safety...

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/how-the-size-of-your-wallet-protects-you-in-a-car-123390976917.html

What if you prefer small expensive cars?

Note that Volvo, despite having sales numbers so horrendously bad they had slated plans to pull out of the USA two years ago, holds three positions on that list of lowest claims frequency.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Well, I guess fewest cars sold would give you low claims frequency!

 

[Ashful]

I assume it's a "per units sold" metric.

 

[Lake Girl]

stand a decent chance of identifying bologna.

Except when it comes to the computer and those diagnostics 2013 Spark has lost the radio which means hands free phone etc. The dealer wants $450 for a new one and that doesn't necessarily guarantee it's not in wiring ... Radio started dropping the phone while on warranty but finally quit over the magic number.