Electric cars and CO2 emissions

[EatenByLimestone]

The head on collisions are tough on any vehicle. Assuming both are going the same speed, it's hitting a wall at double your speed.

Airbags are a big game changer. They started going into cars in the early/mid 90s? I know it was an option on my 92 Dakota, but I didn't have one. My wife's 98 Camry had them. I bet you would really have to look for a vehicle without them now due to regular vehicle rust out in the northern states. I still mourn selling that Dakota, but it wouldn't fit a car seat in the back.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Some of this IS generational. For the first pass over-generalization, Boomers liked to play with their cars, but the Gen-X kids just drove 'em, without thinking about whats under the hood. Gen-X folks liked to play with their computers, but the millennial kids just use them, without thinking about whats inside. What do the Millenial kids play with? I dunno....

Very true. A few months ago the wife dragged me to the movies. The cost was insane! I have no idea how a kid working a minimum wage dishwashing job could afford to take a girl to one. We all started there and figured it out somehow though. Paying $100/hr for a mechanic to change my spark plugs/water pump/ belts(I guess it's only 1 now) wasn't going to help ends meet though.

 

[woodgeek]

But there is also a difference between the first generation 'front' airbags (for frontal collisions) and those nowadays, that envelop the driver and passengers, and work to protect the head/torso in many more complex crash scenarios. Newer cars have the (old) 'front' airbags, but also 'side' airbags that prevent people from sliding off the side of the front airbag in many scenarios, and side curtain airbags to protect the head in 'T-bone' type side collsions.

No cars from the 90s that I know of have those.

 

[woodgeek]

Very true. A few months ago the wife dragged me to the movies. The cost was insane! I have no idea how a kid working a minimum wage dishwashing job could afford to take a girl to one. We all started there and figured it out somehow though. Paying $100/hr for a mechanic to change my spark plugs/water pump/ belts(I guess it's only 1 now) wasn't going to help ends meet though.

The kids don't either. Teen employment is way down, and I would assume that college prep and parents' allowance paying for date night are both way up.

 

[jebatty]

The "my club is bigger than your club" argument for safety always strikes me as being somewhat passive aggressive, or maybe active aggressive.

 

[Ashful]

Kids aren't going to learn how to do any work on their own vehicle. It was years for me before the time/money balance swung to the side where I wanted free time more than do maintenance on a vehicle. I like working on them, but would rather play with the kid, etc.

Im one who spent most of age 16-25 under cars, building hot rods, etc. so, I'm talking out the side of my mouth when I say this: get your kid a superior education in a lucrative field, and they'll never have to worry about maintaining their own car. As much as I like knowing how to do this stuff, I'd be much happier watching my grown son drive his new Mercedes to sailing regattas or golf tournaments on his days off from work, than doing his own maintenance on his old Dodge.

 

[woodgeek]

Researchers doing a road-kill study a few years ago put stuffed animals in the road near the side and set up a camera to see what would happen. They found that a significant number of drivers (~10% IIRC) swerved toward the animal, intentionally aiming to hit it. Fun stat...all of the people swerving toward the animal were driving SUVs.

Not all SUV drivers are jerks, but all jerks drive SUVs.

 

[begreen]

Interesting that some would put their teen in some of these small cars. They might save on gas, but are so light weight they are effectively a hockey puck on wheels. I know somebody is going to bring up crash ratings, but put up against my truck, which I'm sure has a lower rating, I'll pick the truck and use the volt/leaf to help slow me down.

The thread is about electric cars which are not typically lightweight. The Leaf weighs in at 3,300lbs.. and the Volt weighs in at a hefty 3800lbs.. The Toyota Prius is the lightweight with a smaller battery but weighs in at 3072lbs.. Compare this to the weights of small cars 30 yrs ago like the Ford Escort (2300lbs.) or the popular Honda Civic (2000 lbs.).

 

[EatenByLimestone]

The thread is about electric cars which are not typically lightweight. The Leaf weighs in at 3,300lbs.. and the Volt weighs in at a hefty 3800lbs.. The Toyota Prius is the lightweight with a smaller battery but weighs in at 3072lbs.. Compare this to the weights of small cars 30 yrs ago like the Ford Escort (2300lbs.) or the popular Honda Civic (2000 lbs.).

Yes, they weigh more than escorts, and still are half the weight (and maybe more important, under the bumper) of the full sized 4x trucks that are very popular.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Im one who spent most of age 16-25 under cars, building hot rods, etc. so, I'm talking out the side of my mouth when I say this: get your kid a superior education in a lucrative field, and they'll never have to worry about maintaining their own car. As much as I like knowing how to do this stuff, I'd be much happier watching my grown son drive his new Mercedes to sailing regattas or golf tournaments on his days off from work, than doing his own maintenance on his old Dodge.

+1

It still isn't a pleasant experience to be taken advantage of because you can afford it.

 

[begreen]

Yes, they weigh more than escorts, and still are half the weight (and maybe more important, under the bumper) of the full sized 4x trucks that are very popular.

Getting off topic here, but mass is not everything. I much prefer a car that handles and stops well. Pickup trucks may be popular, but they are not the safest vehicles on the road though they are getting better now with car type safety improvements.
http://www.cars.com/go/features/2004overview/pickups/safety.jsp

 

[EatenByLimestone]

The "my club is bigger than your club" argument for safety always strikes me as being somewhat passive aggressive, or maybe active aggressive.

Call it what you will, I won't argue that the vehicle you choose for your child is wrong. I'm just making observations. I know when I was a teen I would have been happy with anything that resembled having 4 wheels.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

A few years ago i hit a large deer at 50 MPH with my GM Ext cab 4X4 Silverado . The deer was pulverized with Zero damage to my truck other than blood on the bumper and tire. Had the deer walked out in front of my son following me at the time in a Geo metro the outcome probably have been very different. The low wedge shaped hood of the Geo would have scooped up the deer and sent it through his windshield at 50 MPH. NO way would i want a 150lb deer hitting me in the face at 50 MPH. Iv seen several fatalities in my area like that.

 

[woodgeek]

I'll mark you guys down for the full-sized EV pickups when they become available.

Mmmm....carbon free scrounging.

 

[woodgeek]

A somewhat more up to date analysis on the pickups versus cars debate, also from cars.com:

http://www.cars.com/go/crp/buyingGu...kupSafe2012&subject=stories&referer=&year=New

They point out that pickups, due to poorer stability, are involved in many 'single vehicle' accidents, and that those accidents are also common to new/teen drivers (who might be less aware of different road conditions requiring different speeds, etc).

-------------------------------------------------------------

Young Drivers and Pickups
Having become image vehicles, pickup trucks have taken on the role that muscle cars held when many of today's parents were teen drivers. In terms of safety, this isn't much of an improvement. Yes, the trucks are heavier and higher, but they're less controllable and more prone to "single-vehicle" accidents, which mean the vehicle crashes without coming into contact with another vehicle. A loss of control, leaving the road and rolling over all qualify.

Drivers younger than 25 have the highest death rate of any group, and the crashes in which the youngest and least-experienced drivers are involved are disproportionately single vehicle. In 2009, 64 percent of all pickup-truck fatalities and 64 percent of SUV fatalities resulted from single-vehicle accidents. (Only 46 percent of car deaths resulted from single-vehicle accidents.) Put these HLDI statistics together with a lack of experience and the youthful delusion of immortality, and you have a recipe for disaster. Sorry, teens. You'll be safer in a Camry.

 

[semipro]

I'll take good engineering any day over mass.
I'd rather be in the newer vehicle.

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[semipro]

One of my teenage sons drove like he was invincible in my nearly 3 ton Yukon.
This ultimately ended badly for him, the SUV, and it could have ended even worse for others had they been in the wrong place.

My wish for learning drivers is that they have some hubris knocked out of them in crash that hurts no one (worked for me anyway)

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Me too... 2 weeks into driving I put the front end of my firebird under the bumper of a F150. Scared the *self edited* out of me.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I'll mark you guys down for the full-sized EV pickups when they become available.

Mmmm....carbon free scrounging.

Iv been wanting on of those for years. Im a big fan of conversions. If tyou take the cost of a new vehicle out of the equation it becomes very affordable. Also why electrify vehicle s that already get 40 + MPG ,its the guzzlers that use all the gas.

 

[begreen]

I would love to have the currently available VIA truck conversion.
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[woodgeek]

Iv been wanting on of those for years. Im a big fan of conversions. If tyou take the cost of a new vehicle out of the equation it becomes very affordable. Also why electrify vehicle s that already get 40 + MPG ,its the guzzlers that use all the gas.

Agreed, we just need to build a bunch of smaller battery == cheaper sedans to drive the learning curve on battery costs, then we can have cars and pickups.

 

[Ashful]

Iv been wanting on of those for years. Im a big fan of conversions. If tyou take the cost of a new vehicle out of the equation it becomes very affordable. Also why electrify vehicle s that already get 40 + MPG ,its the guzzlers that use all the gas.

I do less than 5k miles per year on my Dodge 1500. No way I'll ever recoup the expense of going Hybrid/EV on my pickup purchase. Any time I need to cover some miles, I take the Volvo wagon, which does 30 mpg highway. I suspect many p/u owners are the same, so I'm happy with a cheap gas guzzler for my pickup truck, thank you very much.

 

[begreen]

Yes, that is the way for our pickup, but what if it got 40 mpg and could run 50 miles on electric only like the VIA truck conversion? Essentially it is a Chevy Volt design with extra battery capacity. FWIW, as someone looking at used pickups I can tell you there are hundreds locally under 10 yrs old with 100-200K out there. Lots of people put lots of miles on their pickups, especially as an only vehicle. In that circumstance getting a VIA should pay for itself, especially if gas price is close to $4.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I like the VIA too but there again you have a new truck to pay for besides the electric part. I only put about 200 miles a month on my work truck but it takes 20 gallons of gas to do that. id probably use it more often if it didnt get such horrible MPG.

 

[begreen]

Agreed, the VIA is more ideal for someone that needs a daily driver, not an occasional use truck. Of course when it gets good mileage and can do trips into town on electric alone, it could become one's daily driver.