dutchwest 2479 WORST STOVE EVER

[ecocavalier02]

Yeah im not going to insulate. I really am almost positve its not the problem. BUT i think i many have figured something out. i do not stuff the coals fully in the shoe. just a little i take some decent chunks of wood and put them on each side of the shoe then lay a decent size split across them. then stack to the right of that right on the coals and all the way up. Creating like a 2 or 3 inch air pocket. and it has worked getting temps starting out at about 800 to 1000 then slowly dying down to about 400 or so after a few hours with No smoke at all. i will try this and see how it keeps going. I think may have it but im not speaking to soon. like the other guy said if it doesnt work everytime and thers smoke coming out of the chimney im not spening hours of tiring myself getting it to work. just letting it go as it is!!

 

[BurningIsLove]

Yeah im not going to insulate. I really am almost positve its not the problem. BUT i think i many have figured something out. i do not stuff the coals fully in the shoe. just a little i take some decent chunks of wood and put them on each side of the shoe then lay a decent size split across them. then stack to the right of that right on the coals and all the way up. Creating like a 2 or 3 inch air pocket. and it has worked getting temps starting out at about 800 to 1000 then slowly dying down to about 400 or so after a few hours with No smoke at all. i will try this and see how it keeps going. I think may have it but im not speaking to soon. like the other guy said if it doesnt work everytime and thers smoke coming out of the chimney im not spening hours of tiring myself getting it to work. just letting it go as it is!!

Yes, that does help. Do a search on my posts on this topic (diff thread)...I posted a picture of coals & split orientation that I use that works well. But in summary, you want air to move from the top front of the stove by primary air inlet, downwards across the inside of the glass, then to be sucked along the coal bed into the throat/shoe so it's heated as much as possible w/ limited obstacles. I use a stove poker to create a shallow channel in the coals going F-->B before loading new splits.

The longest burn times I get are when the top splits are not even burning when I close the bypass. As the bottom splits burn & turn into coals, the top splits get up to temp and slowly move downwards w/o causing 'nuclear' mode.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

just glossing through this so i may have missed somthing but is there any way that colder air can enter the chimney surrounding the flue? clean out door for the flue (not the liner but the flue that contains it) even with the outside of the flue in the garage it should not be as bad as a true "external" chimney but cold circulation could have some effect.

just a wag

 

[BurningIsLove]

just glossing through this so i may have missed somthing but is there any way that colder air can enter the chimney surrounding the flue? clean out door for the flue (not the liner but the flue that contains it) even with the outside of the flue in the garage it should not be as bad as a true "external" chimney but cold circulation could have some effect.

just a wag

I would definitely not classify the seals around my cleanout door as 100% airtight, but the air leakage is reasonably tiny compared to what the stove is pulling in. The exterior wall of the masonry chimney is about 110-125F when the stove has been running for several hours, and the probe temp readings about 6" back from the flue collar are upwards of 1100F. Dont think the small amount of 60 degree air coming thru the cleanout can really compete with that to affect draft. In my setup, the cleanout door is more than 12' below the flue collar, so the radiant heat from the liner/masonry does migrate downwards several feet to pre-warm that cooler air before it reaches the stove height.

But keep the suggestions/thoughts coming!

 

[ecocavalier02]

well back to square one with this thing. back to the smokey chimney and temps scooting toward the creosote level just minutes after adding two very dry splits ontop of a 6 inch coal bed. im looking back on the two years ive owned this thing and on how many hours during the winter ive waisted fighting and cleaning the darn chimney clogged full. im really really giving up. hmm maybe a blaze king in the near future don't know yet. if i run into problems again like this i dont know what i would do.

 

[BurningIsLove]

well back to square one with this thing. back to the smokey chimney and temps scooting toward the creosote level just minutes after adding two very dry splits ontop of a 6 inch coal bed. im looking back on the two years ive owned this thing and on how many hours during the winter ive waisted fighting and cleaning the darn chimney clogged full. im really really giving up. hmm maybe a blaze king in the near future don't know yet. if i run into problems again like this i dont know what i would do.

I know, I know, it's more than a bit frustrating I know....last night I had a nice secondary going on for several hours, stack all up to temp, below freezing outside, no backpuffing, life is good, right? After several hours it's time to reload as there are only 2 un-coaled but actively burning splits remaining in there...still got a 6" coal bed, nice & hot stove (420F surface temp), and reloading it with splits from the same tree, same rack, same size, same seasoning time...shouldnt be a problem, right? After letting the new splits get going (approx 15 minutes), stove temp up to 650F, close the bypass and a whole lot of nothin happens. Re-arranged everything twice and still didnt get much (sooty emissions, dropping temps, classic stall scenario). Heard a slight settling of the splits and WHOOM! reburns cranks right up, so yes its the most finicky stove I've known in 25 years of burning.

People who havent used/seen this stove always say it must be the wood that I'm using....but if you tell me that dry, two-year seasoned red oak & maple splits are not good enough? I've even tried taking my fuel to other people's stoves that I'm not familiar with. Absolutely NO problems whatsoever. The other two were very different (Lopi non-cat and VC cat).

This will be my last DW stove ever, but I'm gonna hang onto it for a while until the first major repair is required (likely replacement of refractory material). Despite its user-unfriendly nature, it does heat my whole home effectively, looks nice, and I can usually tame it and make it work w/ extra effort.

 

[ecocavalier02]

i hear you on that one. Ive had some good burns on besides the mishap last night. think i was the way i put it in. it really is the most finicky frekin thing to get right. im just hoping and i learn even more about it it becomes not such a JOB to do. definitely my last dw stove as well. i will hold onto to it until i have a stash of cash that i can blow. until then i will deal with it. you are right though it does HEAT the house very efficiently. just doesn't EMISSION EFFICIENTLY easy.

 

[rkymtnoffgrid]

I'll have to second the heating aspect...I don't even try the everburn anymore, but I'm in a forest of aspen and spruce so naturally thats what I burn. Maybe I'll buy some oak and give it a go, just to see if I can finally get it right one time. One thing is for sure, that stove can take the heat, I routinely overfire the crap out of it bringing my cabin up from sub-freezing temps on short weekend getaways...I leave the ashdoor open and create the "blow-torch" effect for hours...(I dont mind admiting it); not the slightest indication of warped or bent ashpans trays etc after 2 years of this type of abuse.....everone says I shouldnt do that, but I'll tell you what, it works really well... That 3-year-old DW has been a hell of a stove in that respect, it gets my cabin warm in a hurry, and I'm beginning to respect it for that. Just keep it as airtight as possible and enjoy it, besides the view of the fire sucks when that stupid bypass is closed, except for the expolsive "vavoom" that happens when it puffs....Oh thats exciting! I remember when I used to close that bypass, the blueish-red flames just rolled around the firebox and that throaty roar from the back, it is mezmerizing...all for about 5 mins, then nothing..."What happened?!?!" and I really enjoy seeing the fire, it's the main reason I chop wood to begin with. Too bad it just couldn't work like that all the time...

 

[rkymtnoffgrid]

In fact the reason I bought that stove was because the sells persons showed me what happened when he engauged the lever and put into "EVERBURN high efficiency mode" on the showroom floor, I bought it then and there! Thinking back now, I wonder if it would have stayed in everburn, or if he just switched it back to let the coals build back up for the next prospect. When you first close that damper it is a very impressive burn...

 

[bsa0021]

I leave the ashdoor open and create the "blow-torch" effect for hours...(I dont mind admiting it); not the slightest indication of warped or bent ashpans trays etc after 2 years of this type of abuse.....everone says I shouldnt do that, but I'll tell you what, it works really well...



Wow, You don't smell melting pipe? I did this once for maybe 10 minutes as I was in another room and it was the smell alone sent me running. Scared the crap outa me when I saw the stack temps exceed the limit of the thermometer.

 

[Hanko]

put any other stove in its place and youll most likely have issues with that one also. Its not the stove dude

 

[ecocavalier02]

so why dont you think it's the stove. Very curious? i can get it to do what its suppose to do. Just taking 2 years now of learning

 

[Hanko]

because I know of 4 other people that have them, me, my son and brother, and a neighbor all have had excellent results mines going on its 4 th year. good dry wood and good chimneys and draft. I wish I could see your set up. can you post pics of the stove chimney inside and out?

 

[ecocavalier02]

dont have time right now but tomorrow i will try. i would love to here what steps you do in gettin thing roaring. things like how long do you leave ur bypass open after reloads? and is all of the chimneys you guys have straight up? and what year model is yours.

 

[bsa0021]

FWIW, After burning a DW for 4 years and now a PE insert for 2 months, the baffle design of the PE (and others of this design) is by far superior to the everburn in the ability to start a fire, continuous burn and chimney cleanliness. Contrary to what has been written here, the DW is a very fragile stove as far as internals are concerned (my biggest complaint). Time will tell how the PE design does in this respect. I will say that when I began using the DW, I didn't find it that difficult to operate, the heat output was awesome and I thought a quick cleaning every 2 months of 24/7 burning was normal but I had nothing to compare it too. If I had used the PE and switched to the DW I probably would have operational problems. The PE is practically a light it and forget it stove(so to speak). With VC selling out and the new owner failing to cover the warrenty tells me they may have seen operational and reliability issues coming.

 

[ecocavalier02]

im also wondering if a bad chimney cap desighn would maybe be a part of the problem.. any feed back wood be great. i have a cap like this.


(broken link removed to http://www.woodlanddirect.com/core/media/media.nl?id=86161&c=483668&h=392f6b73390ee09eec3b)

 

[ecocavalier02]

and wondering if something like this would help out. (broken link removed to http://www.woodlanddirect.com/core/media/media.nl?id=10641&c=483668&h=6119669156fb2dcdc0dd)

 

[Hanko]

FWIW, After burning a DW for 4 years and now a PE insert for 2 months, the baffle design of the PE (and others of this design) is by far superior to the everburn in the ability to start a fire, continuous burn and chimney cleanliness. Contrary to what has been written here, the DW is a very fragile stove as far as internals are concerned (my biggest complaint). Time will tell how the PE design does in this respect. I will say that when I began using the DW, I didn't find it that difficult to operate, the heat output was awesome and I thought a quick cleaning every 2 months of 24/7 burning was normal but I had nothing to compare it too. If I had used the PE and switched to the DW I probably would have operational problems. The PE is practically a light it and forget it stove(so to speak). With VC selling out and the new owner failing to cover the warrenty tells me they may have seen operational and reliability issues coming.

thats a bunch of BS. I find no problem at all starting a fire, or producing good heat for 6 to 8 hrs. I clean my chimney once a year. The everburn is engaged when stove temps reach 500 degrees and stays in that mode untill its time to reload. I have a Jotul F500 which is a no brainer stove like the PE. dosesnt do any better than the DW, except its better looking. Ive probably run 16 cord through mine and no problems with with any of the internals. Ill be willing to bet that anyone that has a problem with the DW or any of the VC models with the everburn has wood, or chimney issues. When you say start a fire, are you refering to start up from cold or what? I do clean the downdraft chambers twice a year, and that is the only maintanence they require.

 

[ecocavalier02]

YEs i never have a problem starting from scratch or refueling it. i has only been when i damper down.. truthfully i have been burning off a lot of odds and end crap pieces of wood and hadnt got into my good stash until the day before.. and i've had no problems. i will say last years wood was only split for one year and was a lot of oak. This year's woods is maple and oak spilt for two years. Will see how things go over the next few days as i will be using all nice straight spits and good wood.

 

[Hanko]

Try and post some photos of your system. Id like to see your chimney on the out side. Also inside too.

 

[rkymtnoffgrid]

I think the dutchwest is a qualtiy stove, I just am disapointed in the everburn system with it. I was sold that stove thinking I could utilize that clean burning technolgy buring the wood that grows in these parts. I burn pine and aspen, that's all I have, it's dry and seasoned well, but if the everburn can only be used by thoes buring hardwood that should be in the VC broucure on the VC websites etc. etc. It should be the first thing the dealers ask around these parts. We don't have hardwoods growing anywhere in the state! Now that I've owned it for 3 years, like the other gent here, I have tried eveything but can't get the everburn to stabilize for any length of time. As soon as the bypass is closed, the stove begins a slow process of looseing heat. It may it an hour, may take it 30min, may be 10, but it always stalls out. I've been told over and over that it is the wood that I burn, that I have to have hardwood...well VC should put that in sales liturature because the stove is worthless to us in these parts if you can only burn hard stuff. Now, I totally disagree with the quality of the stove being bad, besides the everburn never burning, its been a great stove. I guess this is my question....does anyone consistently achieve everburn with Aspen and Spruce? I understand you would have to load it more, but why wouldn't it work? If it not the wood then is it either my install, the sove being dirty, or my elevation (10,000ft)? I've been following this thread with great interest because this poor guy sounds like me last year when I gave up on trying to get the everburn to work. But unlike me, I doubt he's at extremely high elevations, and hes buring seasoned oak! I would think he should have no problem. I'm going to post two pictures of my inside and outside flue, since all the interested parties are already tuned in, maybe there is something obviously wrong they might see. This has been a great thread for learning exactly how to fire these stoves. Two picts are attached.

 

[firefighterjake]

I think the dutchwest is a qualtiy stove, I just am disapointed in the everburn system with it. I was sold that stove thinking I could utilize that clean burning technolgy buring the wood that grows in these parts. I burn pine and aspen, that's all I have, it's dry and seasoned well, but if the everburn can only be used by thoes buring hardwood that should be in the VC broucure on the VC websites etc. etc. It should be the first thing the dealers ask around these parts. We don't have hardwoods growing anywhere in the state! Now that I've owned it for 3 years, like the other gent here, I have tried eveything but can't get the everburn to stabilize for any length of time. As soon as the bypass is closed, the stove begins a slow process of looseing heat. It may it an hour, may take it 30min, may be 10, but it always stalls out. I've been told over and over that it is the wood that I burn, that I have to have hardwood...well VC should put that in sales liturature because the stove is worthless to us in these parts if you can only burn hard stuff. Now, I totally disagree with the quality of the stove being bad, besides the everburn never burning, its been a great stove. I guess this is my question....does anyone consistently achieve everburn with Aspen and Spruce? I understand you would have to load it more, but why wouldn't it work? If it not the wood then is it either my install, the sove being dirty, or my elevation (10,000ft)? I've been following this thread with great interest because this poor guy sounds like me last year when I gave up on trying to get the everburn to work. But unlike me, I doubt he's at extremely high elevations, and hes buring seasoned oak! I would think he should have no problem. I'm going to post two pictures of my inside and outside flue, since all the interested parties are already tuned in, maybe there is something obviously wrong they might see. This has been a great thread for learning exactly how to fire these stoves. Two picts are attached.

Maybe the everburn system would work better if the stove wasn't installed on its side.

 

[rkymtnoffgrid]

Yea, sorry guys, didn't mean to give you a crick in the neck...

 

[Hanko]

Your Chimney looks great, long and straight, I thougt it was ecocavilier that was having the issues.

 

[Diabel]

When was the last time you cleaned/vacuumed the reburner? I usually do it two/three times per season.....you would not believe how much fly ash accumulates there. If that is done...how clean is your chimney? These units are extremely draft sensitive, any accumulation near the top of the chimney will have a negative effect on the everburn.

Over the years I have learned how to load the stove i.e. on a nice bed of coals I will place a large split about 1 in. away from the throat, then (I always use limb wood for fillers) I place a nice 2" round right against the top of the throat (it sits right above the throat) then I put another split on top of the first big one, then space permitting I try to squeeze another small round/limb above the throat (just below the damper), then I always have some small/short splits that will fit just right to the griddle. I get that rocking to 600* griddle & 500-600* flue (magnetic) close the damper...for about 10min the stove will rumble like a jet but then it will settle flue 450-550* & the griddle 450-500* with the noise level much softer. After 3-4 hrs the flue will read 300-350* & the griddle 550-600* at which point you can not hear the everburn anymore (no smoke at all). No matter what wood I use hard or soft I will still get the same results (burn time will be different of course). I find that the 2" limbs help to sustain the everburn in the first couple of hrs of the burn cycle. Try this & see what happens but make sure everything is nice & clean back there!