Drolet HT3000 vs HT2000

[Gearhead660]

Is your temp of 300-400 being measured on the outside of the single wall pipe? If so, that's 600-800 internal flue temp, which is hot.

 

[begreen]

> The stovepipe should have been done in double-wall. That's too long of a run for single-wall stove pipe. It will cool down the flue gases excessively.

> "Temporary non-combustible "hearth" (rubber mats)."
Rubber is not non-combustible. Replacing them should be a top priority. A simple sheet of metal or cement board will be better.

> My fire temps range from 300-400
Where is this reading taken from, the stove top or the stove pipe at 5" above the flue collar? It's important to distinguish the location.

 

[charmander]

Is your temp of 300-400 being measured on the outside of the single wall pipe? If so, that's 600-800 internal flue temp, which is hot.

Interesting. Yes. I just put the magnet thermometer on (no screw). I attached photo.

 

[charmander]

> The stovepipe should have been done in double-wall. That's too long of a run for single-wall stove pipe. It will cool down the flue gases excessively.

What are the side effects of the flue gases cooling? Creosote buildup? I'll replace with DVL.

> "Temporary non-combustible "hearth" (rubber mats)."
Rubber is not non-combustible. Replacing them should be a top priority. A simple sheet of metal or cement board will be better.

Roger. Will replace with cement board this weekend.

> My fire temps range from 300-400
Where is this reading taken from, the stove top or the stove pipe at 5" above the flue collar? It's important to distinguish the location.

Picture attached. Notice that I did not screw in the thermometer as I thought it was just a redundancy for the magnet. If it has functional purpose, I'll screw it in at 18 inches.

 

[begreen]

The magnet may be sufficient. No need to screw in, especially if the stove pipe will get replaced with DVL. Yes, the issue is creosote accumulation. If you want to see the heat loss, take a temp on the stovepipe at the bottom and then again at the top vertical section. When flue temps get below 250ºF creosote will start to condense in the stove pipe. Normally it is recommended that a single-wall stovepipe run be less than 8ft for this reason. The diagonal run will actually radiate even more heat meaning faster heat loss in that section.

Damp wood will exaggerate this condition as the water vapors boil off, they also cool down the flue gases.

 

[charmander]

The magnet may be sufficient. No need to screw in, especially if the stove pipe will get replaced with DVL. Yes, the issue is creosote accumulation. If you want to see the heat loss, take a temp on the stovepipe at the bottom and then again at the top vertical section. When flue temps get below 250ºF creosote will start to condense in the stove pipe. Normally it is recommended that a single-wall stovepipe run be less than 8ft for this reason. The diagonal run will actually radiate even more heat meaning faster heat loss in that section.

Damp wood will exaggerate this condition as the water vapors boil off, they also cool down the flue gases.

With regard to the "250 rule" is that 250 external temperature or inside pipe temperature? I.e If I use my thermo camera (or magnetic thermo) to measure the top of the single wall ideally I want to see a number higher than 250.

 

[charmander]

Here is a cool visual of what begreen was describing with longer single stove runs and heat loss. I will post these same images when I replace with double wall at some point.

Edit: My guess is the outer wall of the double wall will be even cooler so the image comparison doesn't make sense.

 

[Jan Pijpelink]

Here is a cool visual of what begreen was describing with longer single stove runs and heat loss. I will post these same images when I replace with double wall at some point.

Edit: My guess is the outer wall of the double wall will be even cooler so the image comparison doesn't make sense.

Make it double wall to the ceiling support box and stay safe.

 

[begreen]

With regard to the "250 rule" is that 250 external temperature or inside pipe temperature? I.e If I use my thermo camera (or magnetic thermo) to measure the top of the single wall ideally I want to see a number higher than 250.

That is flue gas temperature. The surface temp on a single wall pipe will be lower. So if it reads 250 surface it may be 400-500º flue gas temp. Taking the flir shots with a 129º surface temp it is likely that when the ~250º flue gas temps hit the cold exterior chimney they are condensing, especially if the wood is not well seasoned.

 

[begreen]

Here is a cool visual of what begreen was describing with longer single stove runs and heat loss. I will post these same images when I replace with double wall at some point.

Edit: My guess is the outer wall of the double wall will be even cooler so the image comparison doesn't make sense.

Nice illustration. Yes, that pretty much says it. There's about a 300º drop in flue gas temp. You are correct. The flir images won't mean as much with double-wall stove pipe. It takes a probe in the flue gases to provide meaningful data in that case.

 

[Woody Stover]

"All wood is created equal" - Turns out I can't just scavenge wood from my land and throw it in the fire.

Sounds like you may have a wood lot to work. If so, find some 8" or smaller dead-standers with the bark falling off; Those should be pretty dry.

I bought some "seasoned wood" on Craigslist

Did the wood monger use salt, or was it pepper?

It has been an addicting hobby so far

Don't get too addicted to the forum though, or you won't have any time left to cut wood. Don't ask how I know.

Even though my fires aren't as hot as I expect, every evening I make a fire by the end of my trials my house is heated to almost 70 (granted it has not been too cold lately)

Yeah, we've been getting off easy down here so far, haven't we? It's nice to not see the stacks shrinking too fast.
I know from my SIL's house and stove, it takes a while for the heat to fill the vaulted ceiling area and build down to floor level..
If you have a ceiling fan up there try running it slow, in reverse, pushing cooler air up and routing warmer air down the ceiling/walls.

 

[charmander]

Update on my budding relationship with a wood stove: (I use too much parentheticals so I apologize)

1) This weekend I noticed a light brownish liquid drop on my floor. It was lightly but consistently raining for two days. I looked up and it was coming from the 45 top elbow at the support box. It was leaking at the manufactured seam, as opposed to the "flue seam" (where the 45 meets the adapter piece protruding from the support box). I disassembled the chimney and noticed that the class A internal was dry so I assumed rain was running down the side of the Class A above the roof down to the support box and leaking down the adapter (black pipe that connects the single wall to the Class A). I hopped on my 10/12 roof and noticed that all of my rain guard flashing sealant has completely disintegrated. The sealant I used was recommended to me by one of the Big Box stores and I naively took that advice without any secondary research. Turns out that sealant was rated for high heat but for internal use (face palm) only so the weather destroyed it. I took a drill with a wire brush attachment and removed the left over bad sealant, cleaned with mineral spirits, and re-sealed with Rutland RTV made for this. It's going to rain later this week so I'll keep an eye on it.

2) Since I had the internal pipe taken apart I took some pictures of the current creosote build up. See images. I also cleaned all internal pipe. I don't have a picture but the chimney cap is pretty brown already as well. This is after ~18 days fires (weekdays burn one fire in evening, weekends burn all day).

3) I put the stove pipe back together and thanks to a family member I got some good seasoned wood for the first time. All pieces are less than 15% moisture. I made a small fire and the stove (I have bought and additional thermometer for the stove top) and flue got to temperature quicker than before. I am currently burning the first good fire where the the flue and stove temperature are at 350 with the primary off completely.

Conclusions (at least for my setup):

1) Seasoned wood is much superior than compressed wood blocks.
2) I should get DVL.

 

[rtrev37]

Hello. Firstly, thank you all for this site and the information on it. It has been extremely helpful for a complete wood-stove-millennial-novice such as myself. This is a longer post so I apologize to those who find is mundane but I hope it can help future first-timers in the future.

Background
I recently purchased a Drolet HT3000 and installed a Duravent (single-wall) chimney in my house. This is is my first home and going into it I knew it was extremely energy inefficient (~$400 for electric heat last January) so I wanted to find an alternate energy source and landed on a wood stove. I chose this route because running natural gas to my house is not an option yet and wood stoves are just cool. This is my first ever experience with a wood burning stove so everything is new. This site along with Youtube has gotten me far enough where the flue is fully installed and I can light fires (bad ones so far). I thought the hard part was over after the chimney install but I made the mistake of not researching how to actually make a fire once the stove is in place. After combing through these forums and others it appears that it is more nuanced than "point and shoot".

Mistakes

1. "All wood is created equal" - Turns out I can't just scavenge wood from my land and throw it in the fire.
2. "Stove operation is simple" - Turns out I can't just start a fire, close the door, and reap the benefits of a warm home.
3. Lack of fuel preparation. See mistake #1.
4. Craigslist.

Setup

• Drolet HT3000 stove
• Blower
• Single-wall Durablack stove pipe inside the house. Goes vertical 4 feet then 45 degrees parallel to drop ceiling then 8 feet Class A chimney through and above roof. (see picture)
• Chimguard stove thermometer placed ~5 inches above stove. I'll move this to 18 inches based on this thread.
• Temporary non-combustible "hearth" (rubber mats).

Progress so far
I have made a fire every day since installation was complete (10 days so far) always from a fresh start. The first fire consisted of newspaper, cardboard, wet twigs I found, and some green wood (not split) my neighbor gave me. After putting enough love (cardboard) into it and holding the stove door slightly ajar, I was able to get a fire to 400 degrees. I then closed the door with the air-intake wide open. Fire didn't last long and the windows was covered with creosote a few hours later.

Since the initial cluster of my first fire, I did some reading on here and realized the importance of seasoned fuel. I bought some "seasoned wood" on Craigslist even after reading the warnings on this forum. The seller told me that it was split 4 months ago but the trees had bid felled 2 years ago so I bought a cord (stupid I know). I tried making a fire with it but it too was too wet and I was not able to get the fire really going. I bought a moisture meter and split some of my newly "seasoned" wood and most of the pieces are hovering around 45%. So that chord will be used next year or maybe even year after that. I will properly store it until then.

After this debacle I got back on this forum and found some direction to burn compressed sawdust blocks. It was recommended for first year unprepared burners (me) who don't have access to actual seasoned wood. I bought a couple packs of these 'bio blocks' from the local farm store along with some kiln dried kindling and some fire starters. My logic was: I can at least learn to operate the stove with these three items since they seem to take out some of the variability of cord wood.

I was able to make some good fires with these ingredients but it takes a decent amount (4-5) of these blocks to get the fire up to temperature (~400-425) but I only get those temps by holding the door slightly ajar. When I close the door (even with the air intake wide open) the temperature drops to ~300 and then lasts about an hour.

Until yesterday's fire I have always left the air intake fully open but then I read on here that I should slowly close it to induce secondary burn. I played with that last night and seem to make some progress. I saw good secondary burning happening and the fire burned slower lasting a couple hours. The fire burned at around 325 degrees but that took 7 of the compressed logs (2 to start the original fire from cold then 5 to get the fire going off of coals from the first 2). And finally to my current:

In other posts on Hearth, there are warnings about using more than a couple of these compressed wood blocks due to overheating. As I stated above, I used 5 of these blocks and with full air intake plus the door begin slightly ajar I got the thermometer to 400 at which point I closed the door and slowly throttled the air intake.

Questions:

1. My fire temps range from 300-400 which seem low compared to other accounts in this forum (note that my thermometer is only 5 inches above stove so this is even worse). I often see you all saying your temps range to 500s, 600s, and even 700s before throttling it down. Is this user error on my part, a fuel/air issue, or other?
2. Any other feedback for a first-timer is greatly appreciated.

Positives:

• The thermometer is accurate as it reads the same as my thermo camera
• It has been an addicting hobby so far
• Even though my fires aren't as hot as I expect, every evening I make a fire by the end of my trials my house is heated to almost 70 (granted it has not been too cold lately)
• I have a good draft (smoke never enters the house

Conclusion:
I know I have only been making fires for 10 days and I know by next winter I will have figured out a lot regarding my stove based on trial and error. But until then, thank you all for your time and knowledge.

I have the HT2000 and yes 300-400 is low for this type of wood stove. With a few splits and kindling's, I get up to the 400-500 range. Once I fill it with thicker pieces, it will hover around 600-650+ but I always throttle back on the damper at 300. Your thermometer at 5" above should give you a much higher reading, however, this reminds me that temperature read-out depends on where you place the thermometer (18 inches above the stove is ideal) I have a double wall, so my thermometer sits on the top center of the stove on the lower level - (HT2000 is a 2 tier level stove). it seems your issue is not having enough dry wood to use the HT3000 correctly. Better to go to Home Depot or local wood provider and buy a small dry stack to see the difference for yourself. PS. don't burn cardboard, waxing type of advertisement news pamphlets and junk - stick to regular newspaper where 3 to 4 pieces will be enough to start a fire. Once the wood starts burning, close the door and keep the damper open till it reaches 300 before damping it down half way. Don't experiment with other types of resources to burn, you will just waste your money, time and possible do more damage then good. once the temp reaches 500+ damp in down to 3/4 of the way closed and you'll be fine. However, damping down when the wood is still wet will give you a black and foggy glass. The dryer the better. I close mine nearly full with a tiny bit open and it does fine and hardly ever get fog or soot on my glass.

Lastly, check your stove pipe and chimney to make sure you are not getting any build up due to burning low and wet wood. Personally, I would not use the stove if I had no dry wood to burn and just burn on weekends with wood from Home Depot or local supplier even if its much more expensive. Bottom line is, you are not ready to properly burn with the HT3000. It's all a learning experience.

 

[rtrev37]

Update on my budding relationship with a wood stove: (I use too much parentheticals so I apologize)

1) This weekend I noticed a light brownish liquid drop on my floor. It was lightly but consistently raining for two days. I looked up and it was coming from the 45 top elbow at the support box. It was leaking at the manufactured seam, as opposed to the "flue seam" (where the 45 meets the adapter piece protruding from the support box). I disassembled the chimney and noticed that the class A internal was dry so I assumed rain was running down the side of the Class A above the roof down to the support box and leaking down the adapter (black pipe that connects the single wall to the Class A). I hopped on my 10/12 roof and noticed that all of my rain guard flashing sealant has completely disintegrated. The sealant I used was recommended to me by one of the Big Box stores and I naively took that advice without any secondary research. Turns out that sealant was rated for high heat but for internal use (face palm) only so the weather destroyed it. I took a drill with a wire brush attachment and removed the left over bad sealant, cleaned with mineral spirits, and re-sealed with Rutland RTV made for this. It's going to rain later this week so I'll keep an eye on it.

2) Since I had the internal pipe taken apart I took some pictures of the current creosote build up. See images. I also cleaned all internal pipe. I don't have a picture but the chimney cap is pretty brown already as well. This is after ~18 days fires (weekdays burn one fire in evening, weekends burn all day).

3) I put the stove pipe back together and thanks to a family member I got some good seasoned wood for the first time. All pieces are less than 15% moisture. I made a small fire and the stove (I have bought and additional thermometer for the stove top) and flue got to temperature quicker than before. I am currently burning the first good fire where the the flue and stove temperature are at 350 with the primary off completely.

Conclusions (at least for my setup):

1) Seasoned wood is much superior than compressed wood blocks.
2) I should get DVL.

That third pic does not look very good. Looks like dangerous creosote if its actually shinning off the light.
What do you mean with the primary off completely? Are you saying you are burning at 350 with the damper completely closed? That is not good if you are.

 

[hondabacon]

Update: From October 2019. Notice my baffle was cracked a couple weeks ago either from impact of trying to burn to much tamarack when it was -30 below F. Contacted Drolet and they sent me a new one under warranty. Really good to work with. The secondary burn tube removal and installation is just genius.

 

[Triple Share]

So do you still like it? By the way can you heat a pot of water on top like with my old stove?

 

[MStew]

So do you still like it? By the way can you heat a pot of water on top like with my old stove?

I realize you are addressing someone else but I have an HT 2000 and it boils the heck out of a pot of water on the stove top. I keep a huge roasting pan that holds about 3 gallons on the top to add humidity to the house and it boils steady when the stove is at temp.

 

[Triple Share]

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I just wasn't sure with these new stoves. What do you use between the pot and the stove top to keep it from rusting? Do you like your stove? I'm really hoping I'm going to like it of course it won't get here till January, but at least that's before our coldest month in February. I will just have to baby this stove with its damaged baffle till then.
Do you have a blower? Do you think the blower is any good or would a fan be just as good? I'm going to hope it's not too much of a stove that doesn't cook me out of my main room, but given the long hours I'm at work I decided it was the better option.

 

[MStew]

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I just wasn't sure with these new stoves. What do you use between the pot and the stove top to keep it from rusting? Do you like your stove? I'm really hoping I'm going to like it of course it won't get here till January, but at least that's before our coldest month in February. I will just have to baby this stove with its damaged baffle till then.
Do you have a blower? Do you think the blower is any good or would a fan be just as good? I'm going to hope it's not too much of a stove that doesn't cook me out of my main room, but given the long hours I'm at work I decided it was the better option.

Its porcelain coated steel and I just set it on the stove- never any rust but I have to wipe down with vinegar once in a while form the carbonate that results from the little micro "splashes" when it boils.

I do have a blower on it- not the drolet brand but one I had on hand and it fit. I almost always run it- it makes a big difference- especially in terms of the heat making it upstairs. Probably wouldn't need it if I only was heating the 600 SF it sits in, but want to supplement upstairs. I think its better than a fan because it is specifically moving air between the firebox and sheet metal jacket and I dont think a room fan would be as effective at that.

I definitely like the stove- bought it for like $700 eight years ago thinking oh well, just get an inexpensive stove but was quite impressed with its performance and build. Firebox is large and Its pretty forgiving with less than ideally dry wood- especially if you also have some dry. If I have to burn stuff that's not ideal, I'll get the initial fire and bed of coals going with the dry stuff- then add in the less seasoned along with a couple dry splits and it idles nicely.

It has been trouble free, but I think I'll get a new top baffle because I noticed the perimeter has eroded a bit so there's not a lot of purchase on the rails it sits on and it's dropping down onto the secondary air pipes on one side with just a little bump. Probably could use a new door seal, too- its pretty compressed after all these years.

One thing I thing a new HT2000 owner really needs to know is when you use the ash dump, you need to really clean the metal that the lid sits on when you replace it or you get a lot of unwanted primary air coming in. A lot. Even if you really brush it out, you'll get a decent amount of air coming in until ash builds up and reduces the flow. run the vacuum in that space if you are concerned. No leaks when i do that. The leaky ash cover can also be an advantage though when burning wood that's a little on the green side because that bottom air keeps things glowing nicely under the load. I sometimes intentionally loosen it up a bit for that reason. But if its leaking air with full load of good dry wood, things can run away on ya and there's no way to stop it. For the most part, if I don't need that air for wettish wood, I dont use the ash door, I just use a shovel so the ash gets packed down well on that lid.

I don't manage it by flue gas temps or anything and just go by what I see in the window with the exception of always keeping the magnetic flue thermometer over 250

Oh one other thing- get a long thin brush- like a flexible one used for dryer vent cleaning and brush out the space between the firebox and sheet metal jacket especially at the beginning of the season. It only takes a few cobwebs to really slow the air moving by convection through that space. Blowing it out with a shop vac works, too