Dont burn Bio Bricks in your Jotul.

[DonCT]

LOL!! I know the finace would like the idea of making the stove burning easier.

Still thinking of getting a pallet of the Bio's and use it mixed with my cord wood. I don't know if I would run it packed like they say.

 

[babalu87]

I cant wait until we all have to wear helmets while driving.

Looks like a few stooges bought the bricks and filled the stove to the brim and walked away?
Common sense isnt so common is it?

Don you are in a great spot to pick some up being in the same town as a major distributor.
I cant get them out here without paying through the nose for delivery.
We go to the wifes sisters house for Turkey day every year and I may rent a truck on a one way rental and pick up some pellets for a friend and bricks for my dad and I.
I have plenty of wood but having used the bricks as a trial I would like to have some stacked in the basement for the 2 day blizzards we tend to get nearly every year.

 

[jldunn]

It might've only been a slight idiot. Like Warren said, they're great if you don't poke them. So you've got your biobrick fire going and it's starting to run down. You decide to throw another couple biobricks on the fire. Because it's hot in there, and you've always done it with cord wood, you give the new biobricks a light toss in. They break up the remains of the biobricks in there, maybe split up a bit themselves, and the fire takes off life crazy. Unlike when we throw in too many pine splits, we can't grab it with our fireplace gloves and run it out into the snow (Which I've heard of a few doing) since it's not really in a solid one piece form to grab.

 

[precaud]

Are modern EPA, UL, stoves generally designed to be difficult to overfire with natural cordwood?
I have not been able to get the Mansfield above -just shy of 600 degrees F- so far in the early part of my burning career. (Not that I tried too hard)

Good question, Marty. I think we'd get a different answer from various manufacturers to it. What kind of wood are you burning? That's the variable that makes the biggest difference in my experience.

For instance, most of my wood supply is pinon pine, and the Morso naturally runs up to 750-800 degrees with 2 or more pine splits in it. That's just what happens - you can't control the burn rate of a low-density wood on a hot bed of coals. To get it to cruise in the 500 range, I can only load one split at a time. But if I use the crabapple that I have a little of, it's a complete different story. It's a denser wood and releases it's gasses much more slowly, and stays in the 450-600 range for the whole load.

I've experienced this with other stoves, so I was (naturally) concerned about this before I bought the Morso, and called them and asked them about it. The importer assured me I had nothing to worry about the high temps; that the only failures they've seen is from burning contaminated wood, especially salt-soaked. So I don't worry about it anymore.

 

[NFreiermuth]

Very interesting

I have never seen or heard of these in Upstate New York.
Maybe those of us in the NY, MA, PA, CT, VT, and NH areas should look into these a tad further.
I'm game to buy some and give them an educated and careful evaluation.

As for overfiring, the manual for the Hampton says if you can see the inner steel begin to glow and/or the wood handle is too hot to touch, then you're overfiring the stove. I have had the stove pretty darn hot, and still never met that criteria.

BioPellet,
It looks as though you have a forum of willing/seasoned/educated testers for your future market of bio bricks.
So how's about a few of them for the Hearth.com gang???

 

[Mike Wilson]

Distribution, my friend... Distribution. We need to see these available in more locations. I for one would definitely burn a ton if I could get my hands on some, but shipping from the great white north to here is too expensive. We need to see a tractor trailer heading to NY somewhere.

-- Mike

 

[recppd]

They're $285 per pallet (ton) here on the North Shore in MA. I think I might buy a pallet to try them out. Like I said in earlier posts, I burned (and still have some to burn) Home Prest Fire Logs last season and LOVED THEM. Unfortunately they are now $418 per ton...

 

[webbie]

Rail or ship are the only way to ship far with really low prices.....a truck would hold - what, like 23 tons, and figuring on 2 bucks a mile (my guess from long ago experience), that would be $1,000 extra to ship 500 miles, or about 40-50 a ton. Really not too bad....

There can be a BIG variation in freight prices depending on whether it is "backhaul" etc. - For instance, companies like Duraflame have deals to bring stuff from west to east pretty much at the trucking companies discretion - in other words, " instead of going empty, we'll pay 1/2 the normal rate".

 

[babalu87]

Distribution, my friend... Distribution. We need to see these available in more locations. I for one would definitely burn a ton if I could get my hands on some, but shipping from the great white north to here is too expensive. We need to see a tractor trailer heading to NY somewhere.

-- Mike

Its expensive to get anything to Orient Point, though not as expensive as it would be to get something to the Hamptons

 

[Marty]

Are modern EPA, UL, stoves generally designed to be difficult to overfire with natural cordwood?
I have not been able to get the Mansfield above -just shy of 600 degrees F- so far in the early part of my burning career. (Not that I tried too hard)

Good question, Marty. I think we'd get a different answer from various manufacturers to it. What kind of wood are you burning? That's the variable that makes the biggest difference in my experience.

For instance, most of my wood supply is pinon pine, and the Morso naturally runs up to 750-800 degrees with 2 or more pine splits in it. That's just what happens - you can't control the burn rate of a low-density wood on a hot bed of coals. To get it to cruise in the 500 range, I can only load one split at a time. But if I use the crabapple that I have a little of, it's a complete different story. It's a denser wood and releases it's gasses much more slowly, and stays in the 450-600 range for the whole load.

I've experienced this with other stoves, so I was (naturally) concerned about this before I bought the Morso, and called them and asked them about it. The importer assured me I had nothing to worry about the high temps; that the only failures they've seen is from burning contaminated wood, especially salt-soaked. So I don't worry about it anymore.

Thanks that explains a lot.
Right now I'm burning this: (broken link removed to http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/for/212708148.html) I got the last 2.5 cords mostly oak I think. Nice guy had about 10 trees taken down in his back yard and rented a splitter.
I realise there is as much art to this as there is science but it seems like the manuals are left fairly vague concerning stove opperating parameters.

 

[BrotherBart]

Rail or ship are the only way to ship far with really low prices.....a truck would hold - what, like 23 tons, and figuring on 2 bucks a mile (my guess from long ago experience), that would be $1,000 extra to ship 500 miles, or about 40-50 a ton. Really not too bad....

There can be a BIG variation in freight prices depending on whether it is "backhaul" etc. - For instance, companies like Duraflame have deals to bring stuff from west to east pretty much at the trucking companies discretion - in other words, " instead of going empty, we'll pay 1/2 the normal rate".

Or do it like England's Stove Works does. Haul your stoves to the West coast and pick up a load of produce to haul back. They started out delivering their stoves and ended up starting their own trucking company Englander Transport, Inc.

http://www.englandertransport.com/

 

[webbie]

When I lived in Tn, we used to call guys like that "Tennessee Poker Players" - the idea being that they would start out with a farm, then have a machine shop there, next a trucking outfit - etc. etc - Talk about the American Spirit! That's it in a nutshell...and in Tn, they would always remain as Down Home as when they started out. No suits and pretension for these guys.....I think Englander is probably the same....

 

[smirnov3]

BioPellet, I think anybody serious about selling Bio-Bricks has to educate his consumers.

It sounds like they are diffrent enough to burn than wood that even seasoned wood burners are liable to make mistakes. And those will be blamed on the 'Bricks.

Not only do you lose a customer that way, but bad press can kill a company.

Maybe put a few pointers on the packaging, and a web-site with a tutorial on how to handle them (and test results from burning the 'Bricks in Cat & non-Cat stoves)

 

[Metal]

Biopellet-Another idea for you would be to market your procuct to mass outlets as Chimenea/Burn Pit Fuel. There are tons of city dwellers who have these on their back decks and buy their wood in tiny bundles in front of convenience stores/grocery stores. A product like yours sounds like it would be perfect.

 

[BioPellet]

BioPellet, I think anybody serious about selling Bio-Bricks has to educate his consumers.

It sounds like they are diffrent enough to burn than wood that even seasoned wood burners are liable to make mistakes. And those will be blamed on the 'Bricks.

Not only do you lose a customer that way, but bad press can kill a company.

Maybe put a few pointers on the packaging, and a web-site with a tutorial on how to handle them (and test results from burning the 'Bricks in Cat & non-Cat stoves)

You mean like: BioPellet.net - instructions????

 

[babalu87]

I now have a need for three ton in SE Mass, need a local dealerthat sells by the TON not the bag.

Dont make me drive out there for three ton

 

[recppd]

I now have a need for three ton in SE Mass, need a local dealerthat sells by the TON not the bag.

Dont make me drive out there for three ton

Any luck with the dealers listed on www.biopellet.net ? Like I posted, my local dealer (Saugus, MA) sells them for $285/ton. Let us know how you make out.

 

[BrotherBart]

When I lived in Tn, we used to call guys like that "Tennessee Poker Players" - the idea being that they would start out with a farm, then have a machine shop there, next a trucking outfit - etc. etc - Talk about the American Spirit! That's it in a nutshell...and in Tn, they would always remain as Down Home as when they started out. No suits and pretension for these guys.....I think Englander is probably the same....

I think you may be right. A customer service guy kept calling me "buddy" when I called to ask some questions.

 

[recppd]

Anyone who is familiar with the BioBricks please answer these:

What is the approx. weight of each brick?

How many bricks per pallet? (or per shrinkwrapped bag - appears to be 64 per pallet)?

Thanks...

 

[BioPellet]

Once they start burning and expand...If you touch them with a poker, they fall apart and the firebox becomes an inferno.

Yikes That's not good.

If you don't poke them, they burn fine for a very long time. If you pack your stove with them, only the surface burns (with some difficulty) and I'm not sure the firebox temps are as high as needed for quite some time to achieve a smokeless burn.

Consider this. Pack your stove on top of a good bed of coals with a chunk of something almost as massive as coal (biobricks will sink in water), all at once, surrounded by a burnable surface. This is exactly what you get with them. What happens to the temp of the stove? The the bricks and the stove reach the average. So 70 degree bricks, 500 degree stove...you get instant firebox temps of something around 300 degrees. Now only the surface can burn. Takes a while for the stove interior temp to reach secondary combustion temps.

If you pack them more loosly, the problem is solves due to surface area. I think it's like anything...You have to play with it to achieve the best results.

Some observations: I do believe is that they burn very clean, almost no ash, No bugs, and you can get very long burn times out of them. They're expensive, they also don't burn very hot for a while if packed tightly, they are not any cleaner than wood since they do shed, and you burn your hands putting them in the stove in order to pack them correctly...Use gloves Overall, a nice alternative to wood if wood is hard to come by.

An alternative perspective is that Presto logs (same technology, different shape) also work VERY well.

Well, my newer formulation holds up much better to poking. But wait a second - why poke???? The whole point is that with my fuel you don't have to touch the stove for 12 hours! The days of fire tending are over guys! The bricks are fashioned after brown coal bricks burned in Europe for generations, but without releasing any sequestered carbon. They are ubiquitous in Scandinavia http://www.nettobraende.dk/Traebriketter.php

 

[Mike Wilson]

Distribution, my friend... Distribution. We need to see these available in more locations. I for one would definitely burn a ton if I could get my hands on some, but shipping from the great white north to here is too expensive. We need to see a tractor trailer heading to NY somewhere.

-- Mike

Its expensive to get anything to Orient Point, though not as expensive as it would be to get something to the Hamptons

Yeah... you know the deal... the Hamptonites call it Sushi, we North Forkers call it bait.

Not to worry though, we've put up machine gun nests in Jamesport, and all Hamptonites now have to show their passports when coming over on the Shelter Island ferry.

-- Mike

 

[BioPellet]

I have product in Bayport NY Check my website...

 

[BioPellet]

This is what Jotul Denmark has to say about compressed logs:

Træbriketter

Brug af træbriketter som brændsel i Jøtuls træovne og pejse



Hvad er træbriketter?

De råd, som vi giver her, gælder spåner fra rent træ, som bliver presset sammen i blokke, herefter kaldt træbriketter. Træbriketter har en størrelse fra ca. 0,2 kg til ca. 1 kg pr. briket. Der må ikke være benyttet tilsætningsmidler af nogen slags. Det er træets eget limstof, lignin, som binder spånerne ved sammenpresning og opvarmning under produktion af briketten. Egenskaberne ved forbrænding kan variere meget og er afhængige af, hvilket råstof der er brugt, og hvordan træbriketterne er fremstillet.



Hvordan bruges træbriketter?

Træbriketter bruges omtrent som almindelige stykker træ. Træbriketterne er teat meget kompakte og tørre sammenlignet med almindeligt optændingstræ. Derfor giver de fleste typer træbriketter en ”hidsigere” forbrænding end den, man får ved en tilsvarende mængde træ. Læg derfor hellere lidt ind ad gangen og oftere. Der bør følge en brugsanvisning med træbriketterne, som giver råd om sikker brug af den aktuelle kvalitet. Lufttilførslen må ikke lukkes, så flammerne kvæles, for så opstår der fare for eksplosiv antændelse af uforbrændte gasser (røggaseksplosion).



Hvor meget brændsel kan man lægge ind ad gangen?

Eftersom begrebet træbriketter omfatter brændsel, som opfører sig forskelligt, må man prøve sig frem, indtil man bliver fortrolig med den aktuelle brikettype. Start gerne med ca. 1 kg pr. indfyring efter sædvanlig optænding med optændingstræ. Sammenlign med brugen af almindeligt træ og øg om nødvendigt gradvist mængden, men aldrig ud over det, som svarer til almindelig træfyring. Det er meget vigtigt, at brugeren sikrer sig mod overfyring, både af hensyn til ildstedet og for at sikre sig mod brand.



Gælder Jøtuls garanti ved brug af træbriketter som brændsel?

Jøtuls garantibestemmelser for træprodukter gælder for det, som efter Jøtuls opfattelse er en normal brug af ildstedet, fyret med træ. Se brugsanvisning for det enkelte ildsted. Ved fyring med træbriketter skal brugeren udvise forsigtighed som beskrevet ovenfor, således at man undgår overfyring og andre faresituationer. Jøtuls garanti for ildstedet gælder dermed for fyring med træbriketter, forudsat at man bruger dem rigtigt. Skader, som er opstået i forbindelse med overfyring eller røggaseksplosion dækkes ikke af garantien.


Overfyring

Mange fyrer kraftigt ved opvarmning af kolde huse og hytter for at få varmen op så hurtigt som muligt. For kraftig fyring kan ødelægge både ildsted og skorsten og kan føre til brand. Hvis du har en emaljeret ovn, ødelægges emaljen, hvis du fyrer så meget, at ovnen bliver rødglødende. Skruer brænder fast, og pakninger kan smuldre bort. Ovnplader kan vride sig, således at ovnen revner, hvilket igen medfører, at ovnen får en ukontrolleret lufttilførsel.
Vær opmærksom på farerne ved overfyring og at garantien bortfalder i sådanne tilfælde.


Normal forbrænding

Flammerne, som man kan se i ildstedet, er brændende gasser. Selv om flammerne efterhånden dør ud, kan trækullet gløde længe. Tørt træ af ”tunge” løvtræer flammer moderat og gløder længe. Let træ fra hurtigtvoksende træer flammer hurtig op og gløder hurtigere ud. Normal fyring er, når man har en jævn afbrænding med indfyring en gang i timen. Indfyringen må ikke være større, end at det fylder ca. 2/3 af brændkammeret; den del af ildstedet, som er beregnet for ilægning af træ.



I had this translated to German and then I translated the German to English --- Here is the result:

1 This is a discussion to clarify issues surrounding the use of compressed wood Briquettes made from pure wood with no binder other than the Lignin in the wood. The briquettes weigh between 0.2 and 1 kg.

2. You must be careful to follow the directions in the use of briquettes. Generally speaking Briquettes are more dry than typical cordwood. You should not fully shut off air to the stove. If you do dangerous amounts of wood gas can develop and spontaneously combust.

3. Start out with 1 kg of briquettes and learn how this works for you. Overheating is very dangerous and can result in fire danger.

4. The Jotul guarantee holds only if you follow the above directions. Overfire or explosions will void the warrantee.

5. Overfiring, represented by a red glowing stove, can result in damage to seams and seals which will lead to loss of control of air and void warrantee.

6. Normal Burns: What you see as flame is burning gas. Also, when the flame is burned out the coals will glow red for a long period. Dry hardwood lasts longer than dry softwood. In normal operation one should add fuel in small amounts every hour and never fill beyond 2/3 of firebox volume.

 

[BrotherBart]

So if a person fills the firebox like you show and turns down the air the stove is going to explode.

Thanks for the info.

 

[DonCT]

They burn just fine in a Hearthstone Heritage