Do they make a left handed smoke bender? seriously I could use help

[infinitymike]

So is storage an option in your situation?

It keeps getting suggested but you didn't say (I don't think) your thoughts on it re. your situation/layout. If you've ruled it out, maybe you could post that (maybe along with why), and then it won't keep being suggested.

It does keep being suggested though as it is a possible real solution to your problem - and would have side benefits for you aside from just appeasing your neighbours.

I am absolutely in FAVOR of storage. I originally bought the wood gun thinking that I didn't need storage. I hadn't been a member of Hearth.com more then a week when I ordered the unit and then as time went on and I read more here, I realized what storage really does and what a benefit it has. But I didnt have the money or the time to make that happen.

I cant get any tanks into the basement nor do I want to take up the room.
Since the WG is in the garage, My solution for storage is to cut the slab open and dig a mechanics pit and lower a 1000 gallon tank.
The pit would be insulated and would have removable decking to inspect or work on the tank.

Its actually a real easy plumbing set up as well.
I just run the supply/return from the WG right into the pit and I just tie into the supply/return for the injection loop that is in the basement. Those lines already come out into the garage.

 

[infinitymike]

(broken link removed to http://www.outdoorfurnacefacts.com/wood-corn-heating-best-practices/best-burn-practices/index.html)

I think the suggestions here for the chimney hieghts are interesting. I think that if we where all building new homes we would design accordingly. But retrofits to existing homes are really tough. They all require case specific considerations.
What I also found interesting is that all the EPA white tag OWB where approved as batch loads.
Which leans toward additional storage and batch burning in my mind.

I like the info on that link.

I would hate to do that because it is going to be absolutely ridiculous looking.
It would be another 30 feet higher than it is already and would look like a big phallic symbol. And I just ain't to cool with that.

 

[infinitymike]

I think I see where you are going here...

Where?

 

[infinitymike]

Mike, if Fred is still too busy to take care of this business for you, I'll be visiting family in Huntington this summer and since you're both a "homey" and a fellow Hearth member .............................. No need to put in storage or a new chimney cap.

Hey thats great. I'm in Northport just 10 minutes from Huntington. C'mon over, even if its not to take of any business, we can at least shoot the willy bobo.

 

[infinitymike]

The smell is extremely apparent when the unit comes out of idle or dormant mode.
Upon a full boar burn ( good gasification and only heat shimmers from stack) there maybe a faint whisper of a smell.

Like 711mhw said there is no way for any hot air to exit the WG when it is in idle/dormant/off mode becuase the fan is off and the exhaust pipe that connect to the cyclone ash collector which connects to the stack is 2 feet below the fire box, no way for a natural draft to occur.
Therefore, there is NO smell of ANYTHING when the unit is in idle/dormant/off mode.

 

[infinitymike]

I would also stop burning any of the pallet blocks that are compressed wood.

gg

That was just an experimental fuel source that I am not pursueing. I posted in that thread that the pallet factory gave me two 4'x4'x4' bins of broken SOLID wood blocks and pieces of pallets. The problem with them, is that just a small amount of that wood creates a lot of puffing.

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

Like 711mhw said there is no way for any hot air to exit the WG when it is in idle/dormant/off mode becuase the fan is off and the exhaust pipe that connect to the cyclone ash collector which connects to the stack is 2 feet below the fire box, no way for a natural draft to occur. Therefore, there is NO smell of ANYTHING when the unit is in idle/dormant/off mode.

Ok then! so when you call for heat fan turns on.
fan serves two functions.
1.)pulls air in(question? outside air?)
2.)pushes exhaust out

so with a full firebox full of smoke first order of business is to purge old smoke simultaneously with pulling in air.

Purging smoke into a cold chimney from roof line out is like hitting a wall. you now have ignition in the box and system is is warming up. once the chimney warms wala You now just shot the potato out out of the gun. this I bet is a good charge of smoke/gas. half of which is from an incomplete burn(old smoke) and quarter of which is with incomplete burn from start up. the other quarter is from the hotgas from an almost complete combustion. In my experience the last quarter is what is doing the work to heat your chimney to allow the fan to push through this wall.

now in the old days to avoid this charge of smoke to enter the house. you light a piece of paper and put in clean out and it warmed the air just enough to allow you to crack the front door or air control and slowly the smoke would rise.
If my theory is correct then I would suggest a hair dryer/heat gun placed in the pipe just below the cieling and wire it so it comes on a minute or two before the unit turns on its cyclone fan.
Another way to warm the pipe is to wrap the external portion with electric heat tape.

This is my theory and is not fact.

 

[hiker88]

Where?

Pool as a buffer maybe, or heated in the summer when you want to make dhw.

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

I think I see where you are going here...​

Where?

I was was just concerned for summer DHW use. If this was not yours.

 

[Fred61]

Like 711mhw said there is no way for any hot air to exit the WG when it is in idle/dormant/off mode becuase the fan is off and the exhaust pipe that connect to the cyclone ash collector which connects to the stack is 2 feet below the fire box, no way for a natural draft to occur. Therefore, there is NO smell of ANYTHING when the unit is in idle/dormant/off mode​

I'm not saying that this is the problem but I have to ask one question. When the unit shuts down and the compartment is full of gasses (you know the ones that explode upon short termed re-light) where do you suppose they go? I doubt they are re-absorbed by the charred wood left in the chamber.

 

[avc8130]

Somebody from Woodgun should chime in here. Really.

Ha! They were chased off these forums years ago by an angry mob with pitch forks and torches. Apparently claiming what an independent test lab certified is frown upon around these parts.

ac

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

I'm not saying that this is the problem but I have to ask one question. When the unit shuts down and the compartment is full of gasses (you know the ones that explode upon short termed re-light) where do you suppose they go? I doubt they are re-absorbed by the charred wood left in the chamber.

Fred61: This "short termed re-light" would be the scavanging I mentioned. Good question though. where does it go?

 

[infinitymike]

Ok then! so when you call for heat fan turns on.
fan serves two functions.
1.)pulls air in(question? outside air?)
2.)pushes exhaust out

so with a full firebox full of smoke first order of business is to purge old smoke simultaneously with pulling in air.

Purging smoke into a cold chimney from roof line out is like hitting a wall. you now have ignition in the box and system is is warming up. once the chimney warms wala You now just shot the potato out out of the gun. this I bet is a good charge of smoke/gas. half of which is from an incomplete burn(old smoke) and quarter of which is with incomplete burn from start up. the other quarter is from the hotgas from an almost complete combustion. In my experience the last quarter is what is doing the work to heat your chimney to allow the fan to push through this wall.

Yes that is exactly what happens. Upon a start up after idle a big plume of smoke will purge out.
Then usually in short order the smoke is gone and there is only heat shimmers.

 

[avc8130]

I'm not saying that this is the problem but I have to ask one question. When the unit shuts down and the compartment is full of gasses (you know the ones that explode upon short termed re-light) where do you suppose they go? I doubt they are re-absorbed by the charred wood left in the chamber.

Gremlin snack

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

so potentially you have 30 cubic feet of exhaust from cieling down.
trying to exit all at once into a cold environment with only 4.71 cubic feet of volume.


firebox alone is 6.5 cubic feet

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

(broken link removed to http://www.woodstove.com/pages/guidepdfs/Good_Chimney.pdf)

This read I suggested is one of the best explanations of the chimney's function that I have read.

 

[Fred61]

You don't think the draft (suction) of that length of stack is powerful enough to draw gasses down through the firetubes?

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

the Chimney has no air to balance to maintain the draft once the intake air damper is shut.

I would guess from the pictures of these units I have seen,that the stain on the top of door is from a gasket leak. And that the need for an exhaust fan Ive seen on some is the result of the exiting smoke from idle. most would fill the stove when it is cold?
Barometric damper would help during idle but you would need to cover it when the unit fired back up to prevent cyclone fan from pushing smoke into building.
I do not like barometrics on wood fired units for that reason.

 

[Fred61]

the Chimney has no air to balance to maintain the draft once the intake air damper is shut.

I would guess from the pictures of these units I have seen,that the stain on the top of door is from a gasket leak. And that the need for an exhaust fan Ive seen on some is the result of the exiting smoke from idle. most would fill the stove when it is cold?
Barometric damper would help during idle but you would need to cover it when the unit fired back up to prevent cyclone fan from pushing smoke into building.
I do not like barometrics on wood fired units for that reason.

Theoretically you're right but in actual practice there has to be enough air infiltration somewhere in order to clear the interrior of the gasses, otherwise there would be an explosion even 10 ir 15 minutes after shut down which is not the case.

 

[Fred61]

Gremlin snack

Gives him gas

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

Theoretically you're right but in actual practice there has to be enough air infiltration somewhere in order to clear the interrior of the gasses, otherwise there would be an explosion even 10 ir 15 minutes after shut down which is not the case.

Fred61: from what I can see there is no air once the damper is shut. Hence sufficating the fire. The fuel source can't be removed,the heat or ignition source is present,but you are lacking oxygen. I believe you need all three for spotaneanous combustion. a few pops here and there when it scavanges the available oxygen is all that appears to happen. Im not confident that the interior gasses are removed until the system has a call for heat(oxygen in) and then the potato shoots out of the gun.

 

[arngnick]

Fred61: from what I can see there is no air once the damper is shut. Hence sufficating the fire. The fuel source can't be removed,the heat or ignition source is present,but you are lacking oxygen. I believe you need all three for spotaneanous combustion. a few pops here and there when it scavanges the available oxygen is all that appears to happen. Im not confident that the interior gasses are removed until the system has a call for heat(oxygen in) and then the potato shoots out of the gun.

What happens if you open the door and introduce oxygen...

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

Theoretically speaking. the smoke would exit the door(chimney) and oxygen would be introduced and the fire could spontainously ignite.
We know that the smoke escapes as the you tube video of the 180 has an exhaust hood.
Sorry to hijack this thread I have been curious of this model since I first saw and read advertisement. All out burning for this unit seems very satisfactory from what I have read. The idling"hybernation" is what has me curious.
I am very curious to hear any feedback for recommended chimney system for this unit.

 

[muncybob]

This thread has been an interestng read and I hope Mike get's his situation resolved. Honestly, until this popped up I have not paid much attention to my chimney cap other than to note that during start up there is smoke and that it soon dimishes to almost nothing.
Yesterday I was in the yard doing the usual spring clean up and paid attention to the chimney while out in the yard....paying particular attention to the end of the burn. I noticed that there is a wisp of smoke coming from the chimney up to 5 minutes after the the boiler is off. The smoke is a darker color. My chimney is about 35' high and has a very good draft so am I seeing some of the gasses? This smoke looks exaclty like what I see for the first minute or so when the boiler initially turns on again.
I'm still not following this "acrid smell" situation as I just don't have any smell other than a bit of a smoke smell, something to do with a taller chimney and strong draft?...or I'm just lucky

 

[avc8130]

What happens if you open the door and introduce oxygen...

HADOUKEN!

ac