Dissapointed in New Blaze King King

[Highbeam]

but I don't know if the BK has convective jacket or whatever, anyone anyone?

The OP's king is all single wall steel. No convective jacket. Just internal clay firebrick and the thin steel firebrick up above where the walls slope in.

 

[trevj]

Been getting busy, so have not been here in a day or two.

Spoke to my dealer yesterday. He expressed that I was the first unsatisfied customer he had. I am in to see him in person next week, to discuss our options as far as trading off the BK for a furnace, possibly.

Other than that, no new news to report.

Cheers
Trev

 

[Attaboy]

Spoke to my dealer yesterday. He expressed that I was the first unsatisfied customer he had. I am in to see him in person next week, to discuss our options as far as trading off the BK for a furnace, possibly.

Trev

Good to read that you spoke with your stove dealer and that you will meet and discuss at least.

Why am I not surprised by his comment that your '' the first unsatisfied customer he has had ! ''

Just can not wait to read up on the details after your meeting together.

.

 

[husky345 vermont resolute]

Ok thanks marshy for the update


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Woody Stover]

I don't know if the BK has convective jacket or whatever, anyone anyone?

The OP's king is all single wall steel. No convective jacket. Just internal clay firebrick and the thin steel firebrick up above where the walls slope in.

With the internal shields or baffles, even without the external heat shields I would not expect the OP's King to radiate all that much compared to other stoves that only have firebrick part way up the sides, of which there appear to be a good number. What we need is a rich stove-ho' guy to buy a bunch of different stoves and get IR thermo readings off the sides and rate the stoves for radiation. Volunteers?
I haven't seen anything to indicate that the internal shields are "steel firebrick". They may have another purpose, like enabling the cat to stay active at lower burn rates by retaining heat in the top of the stove....I'm not sure. Anyone? Anyone? @BKVP?

 

[Highbeam]

I haven't seen anything to indicate that the internal shields are "steel firebrick". They may have another purpose, like enabling the cat to stay active at lower burn rates by retaining heat in the top of the stove....I'm not sure.

That's the same thing. The steel firebrick, like clay firebrick, insulate the firebox (though less effectively)to hold more heat inside the firebox. Most stoves have their entire firebox lined with firebrick type insulative materials.

 

[jatoxico]

The OP's king is all single wall steel. No convective jacket.

I would not expect the OP's King to radiate all that much

I'm a little confused, would you say the King (w/o fans) is a radiant heater? I thought I saw there's an optional fan and possibly an optional convection plate (??). Heating the air instead of trying to radiantly heat bare concrete walls has worked for some here.

 

[Highbeam]

I'm a little confused, would you say the King (w/o fans) is a radiant heater? I thought I saw there's an optional fan and possibly an optional convection plate (??). Heating the air instead of trying to radiantly heat bare concrete walls has worked for some here.

Woody seems to think internal firebrick and/or partial internal shielding acts like a convective jacket to limit surface temperatures of a stove. I disagree.

 

[Marshy]

I guess it remains to be seen. If the stove was hooked up with proper size flue and appropriate draft spec would the problem persist?

Possibly, depends on the exit temperature of the flue gas. If you have a large thermal mass from the masonry but still have proper draft you will get creosote if the exit temperature is to low near exit.

... I've wondered if an old smoke dragon blowing through wood can put out more BTU's than modern stoves. I think the answer may be yes which is I was asking about trev's wood consumption. I've never had that kind of heat need so not sure.

Yes, very achievable.

Also wonder if it's a convective vs radiant heat issue. If the old unit was heating air better than the BK he may have had less heat lost to the basement walls but I don't know if the BK has convective jacket or whatever, anyone anyone?

I believe part of it comes down to having a larger surface area to transfer the heat. I believe my old stove was made of 12 gauge sheet metal and could transfer heat faster so that might have something to do with it.

 

[jatoxico]

Possibly, depends on the exit temperature of the flue gas. If you have a large thermal mass from the masonry but still have proper draft you will get creosote if the exit temperature is to low near exit.

The problem I was referring to was lack of heat. It's not clear to me if the stove is operating correctly and just not heating as well as the old unit or if due to improper set-up if the stove is not coming to full temp/output.

 

[Marshy]

The problem I was referring to was lack of heat. It's not clear to me if the stove is operating correctly and just not heating as well as the old unit or if due to improper set-up if the stove is not coming to full temp/output.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I agree with you, it is unclear. That is why IMO you cant conclude its the stoves fault unless you have verified proper draft and fuel dryness. He seems to have dry wood so I would turn to draft next. Its the same process I used when I was unimpressed with my stoves output compared to my old stove.

 

[jatoxico]

That is why IMO you cant conclude its the stoves fault unless you have verified proper draft and fuel dryness.

Agreed. I hate to even use "fault" (I know you don't mean anything by it). It may be as was suggested that the high flue gas temps exhausted by the old unit heated up the old chimney which heated all the masonry or the old was a better convective heater. But how much wood was used to get there?

 

[Marshy]

Agreed. I hate to even use "fault" (I know you don't mean anything by it). It may be as was suggested that the high flue gas temps exhausted by the old unit heated up the old chimney which heated all the masonry or the old was a better convective heater. But how much wood was used to get there?

With my old stove I would burn 18-21 face cord of wood cut to 20" length. That was my average consumption and it appears I'm on pace with that amount this year with the King as well.

 

[BKVP]

It is certain that any wood stove with proper draft will produce maximum heat output. I can tell you of the dozens of folks with short stacks (8-10') that add 4' and then tell us the paint on the stove and pipe is curing once again. This of course is the result of hitting another peak level of heat production.

We have encouraged the OP via my posts to please consult with his dealer.

Thank you all. As usual, this thread has accomplished the goal of education. Now, until the OP returns with more input, let's focus on the football game this weekend!

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[bholler]

I really think that in many cases to much weight is put on the radiant/convective issue. Yes there is a difference without a doubt but every stove puts out both types of heat. And in this case the uninsulated wall will suck up allot of the btus whether they are from radiant or convective heat.

 

[Woody Stover]

Most stoves have their entire firebox lined with firebrick type insulative materials.

Your 30 NC is one that doesn't. Most stoves that I've seen in shops just have one row of bricks, as do many others in manuals I've looked at like PE, Regency, Buck, Jotul and so on. I'd wager that the majority of stoves on the market don't have a fully-lined firebox.

I'm a little confused, would you say the King (w/o fans) is a radiant heater? I thought I saw there's an optional fan and possibly an optional convection plate (??). Heating the air instead of trying to radiantly heat bare concrete walls has worked for some here.

The way the OP had his radiant stove set up, heated air rose off the stove and a hood gathered it and moved it upstairs (and it's theorized that dumping a lot of heat into the unlined clay flue was heating the concrete-block chimney which passed through the main floor and releasing some heat there.) Yes, the King has a blower option which pulls heat off the back and part of the top but I don't think OP had the blower. With a blower heating the basement air, a lot of heat would still be lost through un-insulated basement walls. Bad chimney and spotty wood, leading to low stove temps, and not much radiation to feed warm air to the hood, gave him little output.

I believe my old stove was made of 12 gauge sheet metal and could transfer heat faster so that might have something to do with it.

The sides of the BKs are 10 GA, just over 1/8" but because of the internal shields, radiation from flames or coals cannot hit the top of the side walls, and movement of hot air past those wall is limited, so I don't think the BKs are gonna radiate as much as some other designs. A blower is gonna be the way to get heat off the BK. A few designs like the Buck I had will pull heat off the sides, the back and the full length of the top so they are gonna heat more air.

 

[webby3650]

I really think that in many cases to much weight is put on the radiant/convective issue. Yes there is a difference without a doubt every stove puts out both types of heat. And in this case the uninsulated wall will suck up allot of the btus whether they are from radiant or convective heat.

People always exclaim how their basement is always a constant temperature. A real nice cool place in the summer! Then they are surprised when the stove doesn't do so well, or at least surprised when I tell them it won't do so well..

The reason the basement stays cool is because of the earths constant temperature, nothing you do will heat the ground up. When you try to heat the space above ambient temperature the earth sucks it up and throws it away.. Kind of like heating a cave, it won't happen.

 

[bholler]

The way the OP had his radiant stove set up, heated air rose off the stove and a hood gathered it and moved it upstairs

That is not how radiant heat works.

With a blower heating the basement air, a lot of heat would still be lost through un-insulated basement walls.

Again with radiant heat you would be loosing more heat to the walls not less.


I still think that there is to much being made of the radiant/convective issue but you seem to have some things mixed up about the differences

 

[Highbeam]

Your 30 NC is one that doesn't. Most stoves that I've seen in shops just have one row of bricks, as do many others in manuals I've looked at like PE, Regency, Buck, Jotul and so on. I'd wager that the majority of stoves on the market don't have a fully-lined firebox.

Sure it does. Bricks right up to within an inch (less) of the secondary manifold and roof. Was your head in the oven?

 

[jetsam]

Sure it does. Bricks right up to within an inch (less) of the secondary manifold and roof. Was your head in the oven?

Have you checked lately? Maybe he's been in your stove stealing your bricks!

 

[lsucet]

Yeah that way he can make more efficient his keystone

 

[BKVP]

Moderator BeGreen. Please start a new thread for Radiant vs Convective Heating.

 

[bholler]

Moderator BeGreen. Please start a new thread for Radiant vs Convective Heating.

not a bad idea at all I will do it.

 

[jatoxico]

I still think that there is to much being made of the radiant/convective issue

Well it was actually posed as more of a question or possibility since IDK if the old stove was especially convective or not. On the other hand we have a members who report a big difference when going to convective heaters when faced with similar losses.

 

[jatoxico]

With my old stove I would burn 18-21 face cord of wood cut to 20" length. That was my average consumption and it appears I'm on pace with that amount this year with the King as well.

That's interesting. What did have and what did you get?