Cracked stone on Tribute.

[jeffman3]

I checked my stove out also, and there are no cracks yet . I did find that i am missing the gasket material on the bottom of the side door . It must have come from the factory like that . I will talk to my dealer and see how the warranties work is done there. I do lots of business with them and i know they rebuild stoves all the time . Ive seen them replace a stone on the top and it seemed kinda easy .They used a grinder to cut the stone up . Then tap out the pieces with a hammer clean up the stove with the grinder and scraper . Cleaned the stove with alcohol and glued in the new piece . They did need to cut the stone to fit. I would try to find a new dealer . John

The stones on the top would have to be removed, and reset in the new casting, and the rear stone calls for a tare down of the back wall of the stove. There is no other dealer that I'm aware of. The nearest one is in Omaha on the other end of the state. I am in southwest Ne, Omaha is on the east border of Nebraska. There are problems with living in a mid-west, small village,(we aren't big enough to be called a town) but the advantages out way the disadvantages most of the time.

 

[gyrfalcon]

I had a super auto mechanic tell me the same thing years ago about a Ford Escort. Guy said he wouldn't do the major work it needed because the only serious beefs he'd ever had with customers were because the damn cars just wouldn't stay fixed. I took him seriously and junked the only 4-year-old car (bought a humble used Hyundai, which served me more than well for almost 10 more years, despite the reputation).

I don't know what to say, Jeff. I guess at least it's something to really grill any HS dealer about. Given the clearances, as far as I can tell, HS are the only stoves I can use here without the enormous extra expense of tearing up the room and rebuilding the hearth, etc. The fact that your dealer already knows it's something he won't work with says your problem with the stove isn't unique. FWIW, mine has had five years of serious use and has shown no such problems, so it sounds like something went very wrong in the manufacturing process for some run of stoves.

Solving your problem is paramount, of course, but if you get a chance to probe the dealer tactfully about whether this is a Tribute-specific issue or a broader HS problem, there are a lot of potential HS buyers out here who would be very grateful for the info.

It's a real shame in your case because the Tribute is a real trooper of a stove for smaller spaces.

 

[jeffman3]

I don't know what to say, Jeff. I guess at least it's something to really grill any HS dealer about. Given the clearances, as far as I can tell, HS are the only stoves I can use here without the enormous extra expense of tearing up the room and rebuilding the hearth, etc.

I am in the same situation as you, My space is limited and it would take allot of work to rework the hearth. I have found some stoves that will fit and stay under the "R" factor I built the Hearth to. (I'm glad I over built the hearth pad) My problem is coming up with $1000 to replace it, and nothing I have found is as attractive, to my mind, as the Tribute.

 

[jeffman3]

I spoke with Brian Herzfeld today (Hearthstone rep), He is going to talk to Jim Casavant (senior technical support specialist at Hearthstone) about this, and see what we can work out. I have to be out of town until Friday evening, so I will try to update folks what I find out when I get back.

 

[johnnywarm]

I spoke with Brian Herzfeld today (Hearthstone rep), He is going to talk to Jim Casavant (senior technical support specialist at Hearthstone) about this, and see what we can work out. I have to be out of town until Friday evening, so I will try to update folks what I find out when I get back.

Best of luck.

 

[Highbeam]

So lets say you order a new pickup truck with a 3 year warranty. Does the warranty timeline begin when you place the order, when you pick up the truck, or when you pay for it? Sometimes it takes 6 months for your ordered vehicle to be delivered and that would be a lot of lost warranty time. Has anyone on here ever bought a new truck to compare how the warranty works with trucks to how they work with stoves?

That's the situation here. The warranty clock was apparently running before Jeff even had possesion of the stove. Before he could even burn it.

If this is standard practice then all of us stove buyers need to not purchase the stove until the stove is actually delivered thereby forcing the purchase date to coincide with the possession date. How do you dealers like that idea?

 

[johnnywarm]

So lets say you order a new pickup truck with a 3 year warranty. Does the warranty timeline begin when you place the order, when you pick up the truck, or when you pay for it? Sometimes it takes 6 months for your ordered vehicle to be delivered and that would be a lot of lost warranty time. Has anyone on here ever bought a new truck to compare how the warranty works with trucks to how they work with stoves?

That's the situation here. The warranty clock was apparently running before Jeff even had possesion of the stove. Before he could even burn it.

If this is standard practice then all of us stove buyers need to not purchase the stove until the stove is actually delivered thereby forcing the purchase date to coincide with the possession date. How do you dealers like that idea?

I think when you buy a high-end item and theres a defect in alot of the stoves the company should stand behind it.

 

[Nic36]

So lets say you order a new pickup truck with a 3 year warranty. Does the warranty timeline begin when you place the order, when you pick up the truck, or when you pay for it? Sometimes it takes 6 months for your ordered vehicle to be delivered and that would be a lot of lost warranty time. Has anyone on here ever bought a new truck to compare how the warranty works with trucks to how they work with stoves?

That's the situation here. The warranty clock was apparently running before Jeff even had possesion of the stove. Before he could even burn it.

If this is standard practice then all of us stove buyers need to not purchase the stove until the stove is actually delivered thereby forcing the purchase date to coincide with the possession date. How do you dealers like that idea?

Good point.

Also, I purchased my stove in April of this year. I have had possession of the stove for half a year before I ever started a break-in fire in it. I don't think there is anything wrong with the stove, but what if? This has got me to thinking, so I went to thechimneysweep.com and re-read my warranty. It is a limited lifetime and 5 year comprehensive for defective parts. I assume this is a standard PE warranty posted by Tom on his site.

Out of curiosity, I looked at the Hearthstone warranty for the Tribute. Hearthstone has 3 separate warranty conditions: Limited Lifetime, Limited 5 year, and Limited 1 year coverage. I noticed that cracked stones and broken cast iron parts are under the Limited Lifetime coverage and reads:

Limited Lifetime Coverage
· All cast iron parts – against breakage, cracking or burn-through.
· All stones – against cracking or breakage due to thermal stress, excluding surface and hairline cracks and scratches that do not affect the operation or safety of the Woodstove.
· Primary and secondary air supply systems, including riser tubes, air wash system, secondary air manifold and stainless steel secondary air supply tubes – against breakage, cracking or burn-through.
· Glass – against breakage due to thermal shock.

So, I don't see why Hearthstone has said that Jeff's stove is out of warranty. It appears to me his warranty claim falls under the conditions of the Limited Lifetime Warranty.

My warranty also specifically states that it starts from the date of purchase. I think it all boils down to the quality of customer service with a particular company. There are so many exclusions and loopholes written into these warranties, a company will honor it only if they choose to do so.

 

[wellbuilt home]

So lets say you order a new pickup truck with a 3 year warranty. Does the warranty timeline begin when you place the order, when you pick up the truck, or when you pay for it? Sometimes it takes 6 months for your ordered vehicle to be delivered and that would be a lot of lost warranty time. Has anyone on here ever bought a new truck to compare how the warranty works with trucks to how they work with stoves?

That's the situation here. The warranty clock was apparently running before Jeff even had possesion of the stove. Before he could even burn it.

If this is standard practice then all of us stove buyers need to not purchase the stove until the stove is actually delivered thereby forcing the purchase date to coincide with the possession date. How do you dealers like that idea?

Good point.

Also, I purchased my stove in April of this year. I have had possession of the stove for half a year before I ever started a break-in fire in it. I don't think there is anything wrong with the stove, but what if? This has got me to thinking, so I went to thechimneysweep.com and re-read my warranty. It is a limited lifetime and 5 year comprehensive for defective parts. I assume this is a standard PE warranty posted by Tom on his site.

Out of curiosity, I looked at the Hearthstone warranty for the Tribute. Hearthstone has 3 separate warranty conditions: Limited Lifetime, Limited 5 year, and Limited 1 year coverage. I noticed that cracked stones and broken cast iron parts are under the Limited Lifetime coverage and reads:

Limited Lifetime Coverage
· All cast iron parts – against breakage, cracking or burn-through.
· All stones – against cracking or breakage due to thermal stress, excluding surface and hairline cracks and scratches that do not affect the operation or safety of the Woodstove.
· Primary and secondary air supply systems, including riser tubes, air wash system, secondary air manifold and stainless steel secondary air supply tubes – against breakage, cracking or burn-through.
· Glass – against breakage due to thermal shock.

So, I don't see why Hearthstone has said that Jeff's stove is out of warranty. It appears to me his warranty claim falls under the conditions of the Limited Lifetime Warranty.

My warranty also specifically states that it starts from the date of purchase. I think it all boils down to the quality of customer service with a particular company. There are so many exclusions and loopholes written into these warranties, a company will honor it only if they choose to do so.

I talked to my dealer to day and he tells me your problem is lack of a good dealer . He also tells me that your stove was probably cracked in shipping and the damage was done before you even had your !st fire . Once you started to burn it, the stove expanded and the damage was then visible . If he had sold the stove he would replace the stove with a new one at no cost . He also tells me that HS will replace the stove It should be under warranty . The squeaky wheel gets the oil keep squeaking John

 

[thechimneysweep]

Jeff PM'd me last night and asked me to look over this thread and weigh in with my opinion. Here's my reply to him:

Hi Jeff,

I had seen the thread, but trusted Hearthstone’s customer service people would have explained the situation to your satisfaction by now. Here’s my take: based upon your previous posts, you’ve heated your 1,000 sq.ft. house in SW NE toasty warm through a December when your low temp was -16f, and your average low temp was -6f. The little Tribute simply isn’t built for that kind of heat output. Have a look at our woodstove comparison page at (broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/wscompha.htm) , and you’ll see that the Tribute is rated to heat 600-1300 sq.ft.... in your climate, I think even 600 sq.ft. would be a stretch (please read the discussion at the bottom of the page.)

Very occasionally, a Hearthstone part will go bad and require warranty replacement, but this is a rare occurrence indeed. When a door warps, a top casting cracks AND a stone cracks all the way through in the same stove, it leaves no doubt in my mind that the stove has been consistantly overfired. I have read your reports that you have kept your stovetop at 500-550 so as not to hit Hearthstone’s 600 deg. ceiling, but this is like having a car that redlines at 6,000 RPM and driving it at 5,500 all the time. In other words, an upper limit warning is not an invitation to habitually run just short of that limit.

As cold as it gets where you are, you really should have bought a larger stove.

I spoke to Jim Casavant today, and his perception of your situation (three failed parts on the same stove) is exactly the same as mine: your stove has been repeatedly overfired, and really doesn’t qualify for warranty at all. Nonetheless, Jim is willing to supply those parts to you, and, at my suggestion this morning, has even agreed to pay the freight.

About those parts: the cracked-through stone is an absolute non-issue. In my experience, that crack will never open enough to allow passage of air or wood exhaust in either direction. Likewise the crack in the top casting. The crack has relieved the stress due to overfiring by now: unless it cracks all the way through, I don’t think I’d replace it.

The main thing is to get you back in control of your fire. Jim will send you a new door frame and door assembly, which installs with four bolts and some gasketing. This replacement will take you about 15 minutes, and your stove should be good to go for many years to come.

Provided, that is, you run the stove a little farther below red-line, even if you have to augment the heat from another source during cold snaps.

- Tom

I'd also like to comment on a few of the posts in this thread above, as they seem a little off-track. Jeff doesn't have a bad dealer, he doesn't have a dealer at all. The store he bought his stove from is out of business, and the store that processed his warranty claim is "half the state away." Store B is understandably reluctant to perform warranty labor on Store A's sale, particularly with the extreme amount of drive time this rebuild would entail. Plus, Dealer B must have tumbled to the same overfiring signs Hearthstone and I did, and would be unwilling to "own" the inevitable future problems Jeff's burning habits will create.

I don't blame Hearthstone at all for adhering strictly to the terms of their warranty, especially in light of the fact that they have agreed to turn a blind eye towards the considerable evidence of overfiring and replace Jeff's parts at no charge, including shipping. I also think that all Jeff has to do is replace his door / frame assembly and operate his stove at a more reasonable level, and he will experience no further problems with his Tribute.

 

[Peter B.]

This may seem irrelevant or out of context, but I've worked 'both sides of the counter' as an automotive consumer and as a customer service advisor in an auto repair shop.

I also know a little something about basic auto mechanics.

Not so long ago my brother (who is a veritable whiz in other respects) reported to me that his car's engine had failed at a comparatively low mileage, and that he was trying to negotiate with both the dealer and the manufacturer for financial 'help' with the repair.

I listened to the whole story, did some research, and asked my brother a few pointed questions.

It turned out that (documentably) my brother had not changed his oil for extended intervals.

I could not, in good conscience, side with my brother, and while he was reluctant to admit he had erred, he has now pledged to (at least) change the oil on his new car at the recommended intervals.

--

"Homely truth is unpalatable." -- Mark Twain

"Happy New Year." -- anonymous

Peter B.

-----

 

[gyrfalcon]

Wow.

First, on behalf of all us poor slob stove owners out here, I'm impressed as heck that you were willing and able to step in here and help out, not to mention clear some things up.

But second, as another reasonably satisfied Tribute owner, I'm completely baffled by your very strong comments about overfiring. If the manufacturer's stated "overfire" temperature doesn't actually mean what it says but means something else-- what, 100, 150, 200 degrees lower than what's stated?-- how in the heck are we out here supposed to know that?

I don't have Jeff's "problem"-- my stove sticks like glue to 400 when I've got everything just right, and only rarely creeps up to 450 for a short time. I'm also in a cold climate in an old house, though small, and definitely under-stoved, but until I can save up the pennies to get a larger one, I need to get as much as I can out of what I have.

Are you telling me that I don't dare fire the stove up above, say, 450 no matter what, even though the manufacturer's manual puts the upper limit at 600?

Not only does Hearthstone (not alone among manufacturers, by any means) wildly overstate the square footage the stove will heat, but it also wildly overstates the upper range of temperature you can take it to safely? That's pretty stunning. Seems to me if Jeff hasn't been burning in their *stated* overfire range and the stove still warped and cracked, that's 100 percent Hearthstone's fault for not stating the overfire range accurately, and the square footage, since inadequate stove size is the sole reason one would run a stove at its upper range.

Jeff was, seems to me, following the guidelines in the instructions for his stove. I have a very hard time seeing how that can possibly be his fault.

On a more constructive note, is there any way you can think of to pressure Hearthstone to revise their stove specs to reflect reality so more folks don't get into this kind of catch-22?

 

[thechimneysweep]

I didn't just shoot from the hip in my reply to Jeff, I went back and read all his previous posts. Then I called Jim Casavant at Hearthstone and got his take.

I preferred not to call Jeff on this before, but many of his statements simply don't ring true to me. I heat with wood myself, and don't believe it is possible to run a stove consistantly in the 500-550 deg. range without repeated spikes of 600+ degrees.

The Tribute has a 1.2 cubic foot firebox, and Jeff's previous posts indicate it was heating his 1,000 sq.ft. house no problem, during a period when daily low temperatures in his area averaged -6 degrees, and sank to sixteen degrees below zero. Sorry, but I don't think that would be remotely possible without overfiring his 1.2 cu.ft. firebox.

I've been a Hearthstone dealer for over 20 years, and warranty claims are an extremely rare occurance. The idea that Jeff's stove was assembled with a bad door casting, a bad top frame casting and a bad stone is also, to me, unimaginable.

Gryf, I don't see a reason why Hearthstone should adjust their maximum heating area number; the Tribute is undoubtedly capable of heating 1300 sq.ft.

Just not at six below zero.

And I don't think you need to worry about damaging your stove if you're burning it the way you say you are, even if you occasionally drift to 600 degs. for short periods. Jeff didn't merely overfire his stove: he nearly beat it to death.

 

[Hogwildz]

I didn't just shoot from the hip in my reply to Jeff, I went back and read all his previous posts. Then I called Jim Casavant at Hearthstone and got his take.

I preferred not to call Jeff on this before, but many of his statements simply don't ring true to me. I heat with wood myself, and don't believe it is possible to run a stove consistantly in the 500-550 deg. range without repeated spikes of 600+ degrees.

The Tribute has a 1.2 cubic foot firebox, and Jeff's previous posts indicate it was heating his 1,000 sq.ft. house no problem, during a period when daily low temperatures in his area averaged -6 degrees, and sank to sixteen degrees below zero. Sorry, but I don't think that would be remotely possible without overfiring his 1.2 cu.ft. firebox.

I've been a Hearthstone dealer for over 20 years, and warranty claims are an extremely rare occurance. The idea that Jeff's stove was assembled with a bad door casting, a bad top frame casting and a bad stone is also, to me, unimaginable.

Gryf, I don't see a reason why Hearthstone should adjust their maximum heating area number; the Tribute is undoubtedly capable of heating 1300 sq.ft.

Just not at six below zero.

And I don't think you need to worry about damaging your stove if you're burning it the way you say you are, even if you occasionally drift to 600 degs. for short periods. Jeff didn't merely overfire his stove: he nearly beat it to death.

Didn't want to HJ the thread, Ton, check your PM when you get a chance. Thnx

 

[gyrfalcon]

OK, Tom, if the problem is you flat-out don't believe him, that's another story. I may have missed the post where he says he's running the stove consistently in the 500-550 range, but what I saw him say quite emphatically was that he ran it 400-500 with very occasional spikes to 550.

In any case, he's said he's going to be away until Friday night, and I'm not comfortable continuing to discuss his specific situation while he's unable respond himself.

But I sure would like clarity on this overfire business. If a stove-damaging overfire situation on one of these stoves means never, ever, under any circumstances so much as touching that 600-degree limit, then indeed, it needs to be specified very clearly that the stove must not be actually run at over some much lower limit, since as you say, there are inevitably odd temperature spikes now and again for brief periods.

Just for the record, as a reasonably intelligent and informed stove user, it would be my assumption that if overfire is specified at 600, that I could run it safely consistently at or close to 500 (I should be so lucky...) without a problem, and that the occasional brief spike to 550-600 would also not be a problem, only a reasonably extended (say an hour or so) period at 600 would cause real trouble.

If those are mistaken assumptions, *Hearthstone needs to change their instructions,* which are very minimal, to address actual operating conditions.

Honestly, after a winter-and-a-half of using it, I can't even imagine how one would get a Tribute up to 600, but one day I hope to get a bigger stove and I sure would like to be totally clear about it.

 

[wellbuilt home]

Hi Tom , thanks for looking in on our thread . I feel sorry for Jeff , but do have my own concerns . In the past Ive been using VC stoves in my remodeling projects. Ive used VC stoves in my homes since the 80s and loved them . Last spring i looked in to buying a new stove for my home I heat 24/7 and VC was getting a bad rap . Even though i have been extremely happy with there units up til now i could not recommend them to my customers or pay my hard earned money for a new one because of there business tact . (IT SUCKS ) Now You tells us that HS stoves cant be run at there max temp ? isn't that like a speed limit ? If we drive 65 mph we don't get a ticket . I have a new EQ and i am marginal happy . Its 0 deg out to night and I'm cooking at almost 500 o Am i heading for trouble ? . Will i need a new stove tomorrow ? i hope not ! I feed my stove like crazy and cant see 600 o or heat 3000 feet for that matter . Jeff's stove is rated for 1300 sf is that in the summer time ? We are soposto know that 600o in our manual is a code word for 400 to450 ? I believe Jeff when he said he has never seen temps over 550. Its hard to get the small stoves that hot . My stove runs at around 350 to 400 with my damper closed and the air open 1/4 . I think HS need to Pony UP with some C/S . How about making some happy customers ? I really think HS should give Jeff a new stove. We both no that a stove that was dropped will act in the same manner as a stove that was over fire . I really hate the way large corporations think can just wiggle waggle there way out of there warranties . I am looking for two new stoves now to heat 2 different homes , its looking like i mite have to go with the libertys in stead . My dealer also sells them . I would like to see this matter resolved in a positive way Thanks Tom for any help you could offer.

John Wellbuilt home additions LLC

 

[gyrfalcon]

Now You tells us that HS stoves cant be run at there max temp ? isn't that like a speed limit ? If we drive 65 mph we don't get a ticket .

Took the thought right out of my head, John-- no ticket at 65. I expect to be able to put 275 gallons of fuel oil in my 275-gallon tank without damaging it. I expect to be able to cook something in my electric oven at 500 on its dial without damaging it. I expect that putting a 100-watt bulb in a lamp rated for 100 Watts won't start a a fire. I'm a pretty compulsive rule follower, but if the rules don't mean what they say, I'm totally at sea.

Tribute is rated for 1,300 feet max. My whole house is 1,300 feet, but more than half of it is closed off in winter, my walls are a foot thick, my insulation is decent, my ceilings are 8 feet, I heat the two side rooms farthest from the stove on a separate oil burner zone, I'm happy with a room temp of 69 or 70, and I'm tolerant of cold spots. So yes, I'm in a cold climate, but I'm struggling to minimally heat something like 500 or 600 square feet. Overestimates of heating capacity appear to be chronic in this whole industry, certainly not Hearthstone's issue alone. Personally, I think it's deliberate to seduce people into buying an inadequate stove rather than no stove, with the expectation that they can be hit up again for a larger one when they discover their mistake but have fallen in love with wood heat.

Oh, and while I'm griping, Hearthstone continues to say in its manual and on its Web site that the Tribute takes 16-inch wood. You can't put a 16-inch twig in the front-loading Tribute diagonally, never mind a log. 14 is the absolute longest anything that can be gotten into it. I'm only glad I found that out literally hours before I arranged to buy several cords of 16-inch wood.

The Tribute, and I assume all Hearthstone products, is a super little stove and I have literally zero complaints with it, only praise. It's not its fault it's too small.

But there's something very, very, very wrong with the company's approach to marketing, and more importantly, customer information even once you've bought the stove. A great dealer, like I assume Tom is, can compensate for that with better guidance and information, but we all know not as many dealers as we would like are that conscientious.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

 

[Hogwildz]

With all due respect, Tom is merely trying to explain. He is not the man to jump all over, and if you consider to do so, why would he want to even post a reply when he feels your going to jump all over his shat? He is merely trying to give you the explanation you asked for, which he is not obligated to do so. Another thing many folks seem to forget, the stove manufacturers do not state it will heat your 1300 sf home, it says it will heat a 1300 sf area. There is a difference there. The area they speak of is a single space heated area. If your able to heat your whole home with said stove, feel lucky and appreciate it as I do. If your entire home is not heated from a single stove, then the layout may to be to blame, not the stove. Its a "space heater" not a furnace. I understand your frustration, and maybe the stove manufacturer needs to rethink their temp limits stated. But this may be part of the reason some do not state a set temp limit. Each install is a different situation.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Hogwildz, well said, and I don't at all mean to jump on Tom personally, except for the pretty stunning announcement he seems to be making that the operating range stated in the stove manual isn't accurate, which I'm still eager for an explanation of.

I said before I'm amazed and impressed that he was willing to take it on himself to go to bat for an unhappy owner he has no connection to whatsoever.

I think I was pretty clear, though, that I'm NOT trying to heat my entire 1,300 foot home with this stove (I ain't quite that dumb), but essentially only less than half that, and the layout is entirely open, for whatever it's worth.

My plaint is that it would sure be nice to be able to rely on the manufacturer for at least *some* part of their stove info being accurate, but that appears not to be the case.

 

[johnnywarm]

I run my jotul f400 at 500 to 550 all the time.i have no warped door or cracks. i'm sticking with cast-iron.

 

[KeithO]

To my mind the biggest problem here is that the conversation centers on stove top temperature instead of flue gas temperature. A stove that has 200-500lb of mass (particularly soapstone) is going to impart a terrific damping effect on the "real" combustion temperature inside the stove, before anything significant registers on the stove top.

If Jeff (or anyone else) would get a proper probe type flue gas thermometer, he would be far more in tune with what was going on inside his stove. The Condor thermometer I use indicates overfire when the flue gas temp gets to 900F. I can hit 900F on a new load of wood without the picture through the stove window looking alarming or getting blasted out the room. Of course if I had to run the stove at that point for some time it would be a different story. With my T5, once a new load of wood has ignited, the stove will run at 900F flue gas with the draft closed down all the way. It was not until I blanked off some of the air inlets and restricted the primary air intake, that I was able to get this stove under control. For a "mere" consumer, this is a dangerous stove configuration.

Basically, what I am saying is that with a probe type flue thermometer, you will have the right information to act sooner to avoid any damage to your stove. A stove top (surface) thermometer has so much lag that it cannot (safely) be relied on to avoid damage to your stove. Non Catalytic stoves are able to reach such high internal temperatures in such a short space of time (to a large extent due to the way the EPA certification test is run) that I feel it is easy to damage any stove if you don't provide yourself with the means to understand what is happening inside the stove, before interaction with all of that mass.

I happen to be an engineer who works daily with exhaust products, so I have a lot of experience to draw from when it comes to operating something in this temperature range. I know all the pitfalls associated with interpreting results of measurements of gas vs surface temperature and even of the comparison between measurements taken with a 1/16" thermocouple vs the more common 1/8" units. This kind of information is simply not available to the average consumer. It is my humble opinion that the use of surface thermometers is an "old school" tradition that got started before EPA stoves existed. In the absence of superheated secondary air injection or catalytic reactions and considering that most stoves were "simple" cast iron or steel boxes, using a surface thermometer may have been perfectly acceptable. Given the fact that both secondary air and catalytic solutions are now in use and that both processes are capable of generating massive exothermic reactions, I think any "expert" who recommends a surface thermometer to a consumer to "help him drive his stove" is doing the community and the industry a disservice.

We would all do well to prevent the perpetuation of unsuitable technologies that are simply historically entrenched into our woodburner DNA. Things change, the world moves on. New technologies require the application of new methods of control. Here we are, close to 20 years after the initial EPA rules went into effect, still recommending obsolete controls to new woodburners who simply don't know any better.

 

[thechimneysweep]

Gryf: Just for the record, as a reasonably intelligent and informed stove user, it would be my assumption that if overfire is specified at 600, that I could run it safely consistently at or close to 500 (I should be so lucky...) without a problem, and that the occasional brief spike to 550-600 would also not be a problem, only a reasonably extended (say an hour or so) period at 600 would cause real trouble.

Gryf, I think you can set your mind at ease. Here's the overfire caution from your owner's manual:

Monitor the stove temperatures with a stove thermometer (available from your dealer) placed on the top center stone of the stove. The thermometer could read as high as 500°F(260°C) on High Burn and 200-300°F(93-149°C) on low burn. Maintaining temperatures in excess of 600°F(316°C) will cause the stones to crack and other damage to the stove.

You have posted that your Tribute likes to cruise at 400, and occasionally spikes at 450. I'd say you have nothing to worry about.

You've also mentioned that your stove only heats about half of your old, 1300 sq.ft. house in a cold climate, which sounds about right. In this thread https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/31049/#327970 Jeff says he's heating about the same size house as the OP, which is described as 1400 sq.ft.

Later in that thread, Jeff states:

We have fair insulation and push the temp up in the evening to hold the house over night. So far it works fine. My wife complains it’s to hot when we push the temp up in the evening, but that’s what it takes, with a small stove, even a small soapstone stove.

On the day Jeff posted, Dec. 14, the temperature in his area, SW Nebraska, ranged between a high of 9f and a low of -10f, with winds gusting at 47 mph.

So, Jeff is heating a 1400 sq.ft. house with only fair insulation in below zero weather with his 1.2 cu.ft. Tribute, to a level where his wife complains it's too hot.

Gryf, you have experience with the Tribute. Do you think the above scenario would be remotely possible with a top surface temperature below 600 degrees? Now factor in the considerable evidence that Jeff's stove is being overfired: a warped door, a cracked top casting and a 1-1/4" thick slab of soapstone cracked all the way through.

The reason I originally posted to this thread was my perception that Hearthstone, and Jim Casavant (who is a sweet dude), were unjustly getting beat up over this matter. Rest assured that Hearthstone has access to the same information I mention above, and would have every right to respond to Jeff's complaints as stated in the owner's manual:

Do not over-fire the stove.
Damage done by over-firing will void the warranty.

Instead, Hearthstone is sending Jeff a new door/door frame assembly, a new rear stone, and a new top casting at no charge. To me, this is above and beyond customer service, and is one of the reasons I've remained a Hearthstone dealer all these years.

 

[karl]

My concern with the deal is the statement that the warranty if from the date of purchase. Most warranties are like that. However, If you purchased this stove from a dealer and the dealer installed it, then your purchase date is the date of installation. You may have put a deposit down, but if you made the final payment the day they put it in, thats the purchase date.

 

[Todd]

Jeff may not even know he's been overfiring. His thermometer may not be accurate?

 

[johnnywarm]

there are allot of new stove owners out there this year then ever.why are we not seeing the cracking and warped doors on stoves that are steel,cast in its class ??


It appears the soap stone stoves are fragile at best.