Corona Virus
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Ashful
Minister of Fire
The entire world lived without TP for five to seven million years, before our ancestors here in Philadelphia popularized it a scant 100 years ago. We’ll be fine, people can get creative. The only thing that may suffer from it is the sewer system, depending on people’s product choices.
... and yes, I know there were several independent inventions of toilet paper from 1850 onward, and a few even going back to ancient times, but it took the manufacturing horsepower of the Philadelphia paper mills to eventually put it in every home, at an affordable price.
On FDA-bashing. FDA is not a barrier to addressing the problem in situations like this.
For more information:
FDA's Creative Application of the Law: Not Merely a Collection of Words by Fred H. Degnan.
and
When Lightning Strikes. A How-To Crisis manual With Classic Case Studies. Wayne L. Pines, Editor.
I know Wayne.
I was considering several jobs in 1990 when I was leaving Hoechst-Roussel Pharmaceuticals. I went to Colgate-Palmolive, in part because it was an opportunity to work with Craig E. Hammes, J.D. who was at J&J at the time of the Tylenol cyanide poisonings in the 1980s.
For more information:
FDA's Creative Application of the Law: Not Merely a Collection of Words by Fred H. Degnan.
and
When Lightning Strikes. A How-To Crisis manual With Classic Case Studies. Wayne L. Pines, Editor.
I know Wayne.
I was considering several jobs in 1990 when I was leaving Hoechst-Roussel Pharmaceuticals. I went to Colgate-Palmolive, in part because it was an opportunity to work with Craig E. Hammes, J.D. who was at J&J at the time of the Tylenol cyanide poisonings in the 1980s.
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I'd like to know more about this if you have a reference or just additional info.
My recall is sketchy and probably based on some PBS TV show (maybe NOVA) some years ago.
If you'd rather not diverge here a PM would be great.
A colleague at CL went to India in the mid-1990s. He was our statistician and went to teach a course at the Indian regulatory agency.
Looked out at the large field adjacent to the hotel in the morning. It was full of people squatting down. He had no idea what they were doing, and had to ask.
Grizzerbear
Minister of Fire
My wife did as well. We had plenty of meats but we needed to stock up on canned goods and such. The stores here look much like everywhere else....hard to get hand soaps and tp....luckily my wife already had a stockpile.
What the hell is a football scarf.....I'm screwed lol.
The trend i see now is not TP but Baby Wipes. Some families use these exclusively. No TP at all. We buy em by the case partly because we have a 2 yr old several days a week and everyone in the house use them to some extent. NO problem getting those yet , justgot a case delivered yesterday. We also get our TP by the 45 roll case at Sams . Sometimes 2 at time,daughter has allergies and uses it like kleenex.
I use one of those sawdust bucket loos where i have no running water or septic system . Takes some getting used to but its a great alternative ,once used for remote concert with hundreds of people successfully.
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Medic21
Minister of Fire
One report, I would hardly call anything out of China a study right now, shows the viruses rNa is still present. This is 100% inconclusive to as whether a pt is still contagious with it present.
Thread Derail, RE Baby Wipes and other wet wipes, in case others do not know, are a major issue with septic systems and plumbing in general. Within a few years I expect every house is going to end up with a macerator system required on the sewer outlet.
Now back to the gloom and doom.
Now back to the gloom and doom.
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Could err on the side of caution with the quarantine timeframe but hard to know how to take info from china ,who has recently stated publically they would like to see the us "Drown in a sea of Corona virus" . Does this sound like a country that wants to help with the devastation they caused on a global scale. Sounds more like they relish in the idea of our suffering. Makes you wonder ,was any of this planned?
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
On this off topic tangent, we don't flush baby wipes, we put them in the trash, which is probably wasteful. We could probably compost them now that I'm thinking about it. Toilet paper of any brand feels like sandpaper to me now after using wipes for several years. I'll never go back!
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
I think we could eek out two months of food with what we have on hand now, but I'd rather be able to get my usual weekly produce.
Thats the perfect cover story. You can bet the generals who do war game scenarios are looking closely at this. Flights going out had to be shut down from outside ,they should have done that ,unless they wanted it to spread.
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black smoke signals
Feeling the Heat
This was my approach to T/P after seeing T/P on Craigslist someone posting willing to trade 18 rolls of T/P for a car. We have no T/P in our homes (broken link removed to https://washlet.totousa.com/product/S550e-Modern)
Same here.
My issue is that I do a Carnation Breakfast Shake for breakfast most days. My wife does hot cocoa. Need milk.
Lunch just about every day is salad, yogurt, fruit, cheese.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
We do a lot of yogurt and vegetables. I think my dogs eat more meat than we do now.
Begreen, as I said I have family in health care in fact my daughter works in a Pediatric ICU and will be working with children sick with this virus. They've already implemented very stringent protocols for double gloving and double gowning, and then another protocol for removing those items. Another problem they are running into is a shortage of ICU containment suites, and this is at one of the largest if not the largest hospital in Michigan. They are working around the clock to add more. My wife in a Nurse Anesthetist, so will probably not be exposed at the same level as my daughter, but has had a surgery that left her with a diminished capacity to clear secretions. Her immune system is fine. I would be very interested in showing her the link or links where you got that information from. Thanks in advance!
I just read in the news, where baby wipes caused a huge clog in Philadelphia's sewer system (don't quote me on the city), and was quite expensive and time consuming to fix. Flushable wipes are really bad for your septic system.
Depends on the city. Out local Plants debris catchment system handle these along with all the other debris and landfills it. Some cities cant seem to so anything right including potable water that safe for the public. Wipes are not going away so they had better learn how to deal with them. Its not rocket science.
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I'm thinking the focus on the numbers by the general public is a bad approach/focus. It's creating the panic. The hoarding of t.p. Is a strange behaviour by the general public in North America as well. All it is showing is that people are very uncertain as to what to do and what is going to happen. These behaviors are ok as they are in fact correct and not really a burden on society. The real situation that has to be controlled is mass overload of the health system. The message that needs to be followed is that it's ok to be concerned, it's ok to be prepared, it's ok to try and point blame, it's ok to feel uncertain, it's ok to want toilet paper, but we all need to show some form of restraint to reduce chaos within the hospital. Our biggest realization of the public is that we have to take the fact that no one really knows what will happen or is happening, and that is a fact. The worst situation would be a movement of everyone wanting to be tested to see if they have it. Knowing will not change anything, besides possibly create the chaos. We need to accept that if/when you start to feel ill, the best management is to try and ride it out. The experience so far is leading to the fact you will be ok. Your judgement is required to assess when the situation is worsening to the point your life is on the line. There's no blood, but it's the same common sense situation of any injury, illness. Wether it's 10, 30, 80, %2 is no difference. Wether your likely or unlikely to get it is the situation unfolding. No one knows, but how will you react. The population must not resort to chaos. We have doctor's, equipment, service providers, toilet paper, bananas, that should be enough to get thru anything if we can stay as level headed as possible. Stay calm is my personal message to everyone. This is a coping experience of the masses. I'm in full understanding that it's not easy currently, nor looking better in the horizon, but accepting the fact that we must do our own personal part to stay calm is the key. We all know it, let's do it.
Sorry if I'm ranting, but I think we must start to focus on restoring calm if we have accepted that we have a problem. Triage skills required.
Sorry if I'm ranting, but I think we must start to focus on restoring calm if we have accepted that we have a problem. Triage skills required.
you are correct in health care overload, i have been in ER units just swamped by everyday problems ( me-life threatening condition) most are there because it is provided free to certain levels of the populace as mandated by the organizations tax fee status ( always cost me a significant amount and in no way am i well heeled)
Grizzerbear
Minister of Fire
Our sewer department has what's called a bar screen that catches the lions share of all trash that is flushed. It catches it and a auger drives it out to a compactor and spits it out into a waste can. Of course some fine debris makes it through but it catches a lot of it. The big problem is old clay and transite lines that crack easily and tree roots infiltrate and then these wipes, diapers, ramen noodle packages you name it.....get caught and compound the problem. I work for a water and street department in my town but we help the sewer department often and we see this a lot.
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