consequences of setting up wood stoves/ chimneys incorrectly/ differently....

[rumme]

I think what im trying to say is that just because certain laws/codes exist in some areas, doesnt mean that all areas are gonna be held to those specifics and that the people not held to those specifics, are inhereintly more dangerous with the things they engage in.


I have two fire extinguishers near my woodstove and have a total of 6 fire alarms in my house, 1 of which is only a few feet away from my woodstove.


A good example would be how we dont have laws to get our vehicles inspected. I can see where many people would claim this is very dangerous and would result in a high rate of accidents/ fatalities compared to other states that have mandatory inspection laws on the books. But I think the stats would show that this claim is not true . And of course the funny thing is, many people who may claim having a system where inspections arent neccessary, is so dangerous, would be the first ones to forgo the vehicle inspection process if THEY thought they could get away with it .

 

[dvellone]

Regarding the earlier debate on whether we should be discussing the pitfalls to alternative ideas or installations, I think that there are some approved installations that are far from ideal and it would be nice to know the associated pitfalls prior to spending a lot of money on materials and labor.

My example;

Selkirk offers a through-the-wall and outside run as one of it's installation outlines. I chose this when I first installed my Jotul f100. I also had a horizontal run from the back of the stove to the outside "tee" that was within the max recommended run.

I would strongly recommended against this approved and code compliant install as the draft was poor, the creosote buildup rapid and on the coldest nights when the hottest stage of the burn had passed the draft would die down there not being enough heat generated by the tiny stove to keep the stovepipe run adequately hot - I always woke in the am with large unburned coals and sometimes a charred piece of wood. My firewood was very well seasoned. Whenever we let the stove go cold the draft reversed filling the house with the odor of creosote.

Once I moved the run indoors and straight up from the top of the stove it ran beautiful, and I only needed to sweep once a season. No reverse draft, no unburned coals.

Luckily, I was able to do all the labor myself. Someone that has to pay a contractor for an install would suffer the expense of two installs and a removal. That is a pitfall!

I also see many new masonry chimneys going up on the outside of the house. There aren't any codes against this but it's far from the best design. I'd want to know that before potentially spending up to 5 figures. Some townships don't require insulation in the chimney either.

 

[mike1234]

... Fortunately I have a spring fastened cleanout on the bottom of my chimney ...

Is this something you made, or can buy? Is it code? Is it safe? Do you have a picture of this? My stove pipe is pretty easy to clean anyway, but this would eliminate me squeezing back there to take out those 3 screws, and then putting it all back together.

 

[rumme]

... Fortunately I have a spring fastened cleanout on the bottom of my chimney ...

Is this something you made, or can buy? Is it code? Is it safe? Do you have a picture of this? My stove pipe is pretty easy to clean anyway, but this would eliminate me squeezing back there to take out those 3 screws, and then putting it all back together.

Is it code ?

well, I really dont know , but I dont see why It wouldnt be ..

I can easily explain it and how I made it.

My chimney is a square 8x8 steel chimney {O.D}

I simply cut out a piece of 8-1/4x 8 1/4"....... 1/8 " steel flat plate....and then welded a hinge to it and to the chimney that allows it to swing open when needed...I then welded half of a steel nail to the bottom of that steel plate and the other half of the nail to the side of my steel chimney near the bottom.....I then took a spring and slid both ends of it over both nails....it holds the cleanout flat plate firmly agasint the bottom of my chimney, but it allows easy access to get inside the chimney for cleaning or inspections...

 

[mike1234]

I don't weld, but I think I got to basic idea, and I have some welder friends, so maybe they can help me fabricate it. Still a picture would be nice!

 

[begreen]

OK Rumme Iam trying to help. Downsizing your flue to the correct specified cross sectional area will also help as it will increase your draft and give it less time to condense. I think an insulated correctly sized liner will take care of alot of your issues. Code aside :down: Brick it later for looks after your happy with your results.
Peace :coolsmile: N of 60

appreciate the tips....


for now im gonna stay with the 8x8 chimney. I currently dont have a problem with draft, it seems . I can get a fire going and keep it going for days with no problems.

the condensation problems I can deal with , at least for the current time. The smoke problems entering my home during windy days I cannot. I am putting on a vaccu stack wind blocker chimney cap. Supposedly these alleviate most wind problems asscoaited with chimneys/ downdrafts . They are reported to actually increase updraft on windy days by not allowing the wind to go down the chimney, but past the chimney top, creating a suction effect.

Could this be the consequence of removing the stop and allowing the stove's combustion air supply being too restricted? Or are you getting this problem regardless of air setting? Have you tried running it hotter with more air on those windy days to see if that improved performance and reduced smoking?

I'm also wondering what are the outside temps when this is happening?

 

[begreen]

... Fortunately I have a spring fastened cleanout on the bottom of my chimney ...

Is this something you made, or can buy? Is it code? Is it safe? Do you have a picture of this? My stove pipe is pretty easy to clean anyway, but this would eliminate me squeezing back there to take out those 3 screws, and then putting it all back together.

Is it code ?

well, I really dont know , but I dont see why It wouldnt be ..

I can easily explain it and how I made it.

My chimney is a square 8x8 steel chimney {O.D}

I simply cut out a piece of 8-1/4x 8 1/4"....... 1/8 " steel flat plate....and then welded a hinge to it and to the chimney that allows it to swing open when needed...I then welded half of a steel nail to the bottom of that steel plate and the other half of the nail to the side of my steel chimney near the bottom.....I then took a spring and slid both ends of it over both nails....it holds the cleanout flat plate firmly agasint the bottom of my chimney, but it allows easy access to get inside the chimney for cleaning or inspections...

Though clever, I wonder how much air leakage is there in the hinge? You need a tight seal on the flue assembly and cleanouts that don't allow outside air to spoil draft.

 

[rumme]

I would guess that any air leakage at my trap door is negligeable. The flat plate sits flush with the 4 sides of the bottom of the chimney and I made that flate cleanout plate slightly larger then the 8x8 O.D of the chimney dimensions.

I am quite certain my smoke problems are mainly wind related, to the point of purchasing a vaccu stack chimney cap. It arrived today and I welded it onto a 8 -1/4 " square steel box frame I fabricated, which will allow me to use a cutoff saw to take my current chimney cap off, and then just slide my whole box mechanism over the top of my chimney. I did it this way because it allowed me to do all my welding on the ground and then I can just slip this steel box assembly over my chimney which already has the vaccu stack welded to it. I didnt feel like the trouble of using my 12 volt welder and running all the cords to the top of my roof, etc..

 

[rumme]

OK Rumme Iam trying to help. Downsizing your flue to the correct specified cross sectional area will also help as it will increase your draft and give it less time to condense. I think an insulated correctly sized liner will take care of alot of your issues. Code aside :down: Brick it later for looks after your happy with your results.
Peace :coolsmile: N of 60

appreciate the tips....


for now im gonna stay with the 8x8 chimney. I currently dont have a problem with draft, it seems . I can get a fire going and keep it going for days with no problems.

the condensation problems I can deal with , at least for the current time. The smoke problems entering my home during windy days I cannot. I am putting on a vaccu stack wind blocker chimney cap. Supposedly these alleviate most wind problems asscoaited with chimneys/ downdrafts . They are reported to actually increase updraft on windy days by not allowing the wind to go down the chimney, but past the chimney top, creating a suction effect.

Could this be the consequence of removing the stop and allowing the stove's combustion air supply being too restricted? Or are you getting this problem regardless of air setting? Have you tried running it hotter with more air on those windy days to see if that improved performance and reduced smoking?

END QUOTE.....


I dont think removing the stop has had any ill effects. 95% of the time my stove is running perfectly. It reaches the recomeended 500-600 degree mark and when I fully shut the air intake, it will do its secondary burn like it should. The wind is my main problem..which is probably because I did not follow the 2-10 rule....but I could only find a 16 ft steel chimney, so I did the best I could. Im expecting that the vaccu stack will solve my wind/smoke problem. This is what it is designed to do, and its construction looks like it will accomplish the mission.

I'm also wondering what are the outside temps when this is happening?

I dont think removing the stop has had any ill effects. 95% of the time my stove is running perfectly. It reaches the recomeended 500-600 degree mark and when I fully shut the air intake, it will do its secondary burn like it should. The wind is my main problem..which is probably because I did not follow the 2-10 rule....but I could only find a 16 ft steel chimney, so I did the best I could. Im expecting that the vaccu stack will solve my wind/smoke problem. This is what it is designed to do, and its construction looks like it will accomplish the mission

 

[mnowaczyk]

I did a slammer installation of a stove i bought on craigslist (and still want to use), and was REALLY impressed with the heat. I'd taken the advice of my Chimney Sweep that it's ok to do a "slammer" installation (not connect the insert to the chimney liner). Within 30 hours of burn time, I got HUGE creasote buildup in the fireplace because the smoke cools as soo as it leaves the insert in that huge fireplace, and the area above the damper. Thank God my insert fan died so quickly. I was actually getting creosote buildup on the FRONT of my fireplace, just under the faceplate insulation. Fortunately my chimney appears to have great draft, and whatever fire was in the fireplace must have all been going up the chimney.

So now I'm looking to add over $1000 of chimney liner materials, and God knows how much in labor to get a liner installed. (I previously had a $5000 estimate.) Boo hoo. :-(