It would take a very lofty price hike in cats for me to switch back...and that is highly unlikely...I already have one new cat in reserve and another on order..they will both be vac sealed and stored properly until called to duty...then there is the one freebie I will cash in on from BK...I am set for inexpensive heat for a very long time....no worries here.
Cat price - point of diminishing returns?
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The op has two questions. Like most full timers that have switched from noncat to cat I realized a wood savings of more than 25%. That's more than a cord per year with a market value of 250$. All of the other benefits like less time loading, constant output, less pollution, are a bonus. If I spent more than 250$ per year on cats I would have to weigh those bonus benefits before switching back. I still own a noncat, they work, not as well but they work. Fortunately my cat cost is currently about 75$ per year so I come out way ahead.
I keep zero spare cats on hand. It would be more logical to keep a spare refrigerator on hand just in case. These cats die slowly with plenty of warning.
I keep zero spare cats on hand. It would be more logical to keep a spare refrigerator on hand just in case. These cats die slowly with plenty of warning.
I thought about not keeping any on hand....but the thought of price hikes and the possibility of our current supplier changing....spurred me to to go ahead and grab a couple...they aren't eating anything waiting.It seems that every time I find something that works they change it! lol
Doesn't hurt a bit to have a spare if you don't mind tying up the cash. I have some extra fuel and oil filters for the diesel truck too. I just like to keep my little green soldiers working for me.
One more thought... once you own the cat stove and love it, switching back represents a significant cost. You're somewhat committed. This cat cost analysis would be best done before you buy any stove. In all the decades that they've been making cat stoves, the catalysts prices seem to have held steady. We have seen shortages, supply chain disruptions, and technology improvements but honestly I would worry most about the manufacturer just deciding to stop making your specific cat model.
Rearscreen
Minister of Fire
Bypassing and without are different. I was at the Woodstock owners picnic one year and on the floor was a used but dismantled PH. I asked the technician working on it what was up with the stove. He said that the owner had run it without the cat installed and warped something inside.
On bypass I get secondaries.
All this talk about replacement catalysts made me curious what is the warranty on the catalyst in my new stove. Looks like 2 yrs for any issue, and a third year for deterioration of the stainless substrate. Replacement list price currently $175, which strikes me as reasonable even if it only lasts five years. Also noticed that in the EPA certification documentation it says it is illegal to operate the stove with the catalyst removed (aside from practical considerations), but I don't think there are any catalyst police lurking anywhere. 
jetsam
Minister of Fire
All this talk about replacement catalysts made me curious what is the warranty on the catalyst in my new stove. Looks like 2 yrs for any issue, and a third year for deterioration of the stainless substrate. Replacement list price currently $175, which strikes me as reasonable even if it only lasts five years. Also noticed that in the EPA certification documentation it says it is illegal to operate the stove with the catalyst removed (aside from practical considerations), but I don't think there are any catalyst police lurking anywhere.
The catalyst police live under your woodpiles, and they charge you in wood every time you burn with no cat.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Blaze King Chinook 20, Sirocco 20, and Ashford 20 are all 1.8 cu.ft.
Most Woodstock stoves are tiny. The keystone, paladin, are time tested and very small. Even the fireview measures out to be surprisingly small. The problem is usually that we want bigger cat stoves. In a cat stove the firebox size is more a measure of the fuel tank capacity and less a measure of heat output.
According to Woodstock. Very reputable forum members with tape measures have discovered they are actually much smaller.
If I had a cat stove I'd buy a few cats before the price goes up which it will.
That's common, mfgs list total space. Actual usable on the Woodstocks is about 10% less I think at least I seem to recall Dennis saying it was more like 2 cu ft usable. Same with BK, they measure right up to the glass and the cat takes up some volume too.
Bootstrap
Burning Hunk
I can find none of those as inserts. And that means they wont fit in my fireplace.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
They’ve been about the same price ($150-$250, depending on your stove model) for years, decades really. Factoring inflation, I’d have to believe their cost has been on a steady downward trend for 30 years.
RandyBoBandy
Minister of Fire
$200.00 on amazon to replace my cat. Which I feel I could replace 2 a year before the price of cats offsets the price of the extra firewood I would need if I was running a non cat stove. I have never ran a tube or baffle stove so I don’t really have concrete statistics to go by on this matter, just what other users are reporting. I went from an old fisher (still in service in barn) to my encore. With my almost 24/7 operation I should end up around 3 full cords or less on the year. We spent a week at the cabin, I was out west for a week, thanksgiving was out of town as well as Christmas. Other than that the stove is running non stop.
It’s not typical a cat burns up in a year under normal burning conditions so it is probably safe to say switching from a cat to a tube is not likely to happen. I will be switching to another cat stove someday when I’m done fiddling with this encore.
It’s not typical a cat burns up in a year under normal burning conditions so it is probably safe to say switching from a cat to a tube is not likely to happen. I will be switching to another cat stove someday when I’m done fiddling with this encore.
This for the most part has been my observation based on my research thus far. This space is naturally begging for a price increase.
You really think.you are saving $400 worth of wood with an encore over a good tube stove? I would bet you arent saving any. With a bk yes you would save some but not $400 even then.
Why is it begging for a price increase? If the suppliers are making enough profit at the current price why would they raise prices? The market is really pretty small they dont want to risk loosing much of it. I am sure there is room for increases but how much?
Because of greed. Probably could get away with a +30% increase with no market disruption in my opinion.
You dont work in the field and hear people complain when you tell them they need a new cat. Or see the number of cat stoves with no cats in them.
Honestly the regulars on thos site are not at all representative of the average wood burner. Most of us that are here all the time are a little fanatical about it and will pay to have things right. Many others either cannot or will not pay.
RandyBoBandy
Minister of Fire
By no means am I comparing my encore to a BK. But yes in my situation I believe my dated encore Is more fuel efficient than a tube stove. In the dead of winter no, I’m running pretty hard and filling 2 full loads with a small load in between. But shoulder seasons are long to and I can get away with loading once a day. Firewood is also expensive in my area. Up to $100.00 a face. Fortunately I haven’t had to buy any firewood in a long time.
So you think you would use 44% more wood with a tube stove? What are you basing that on?
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