Cat or No

[Green Energy]

I have no complaints about the DW cat stove I used for 20 years. Shutting the bypass damper is no more complicated than fine tuning the primary air adjustments to maintain secondary burn on my non-cat stove, and the bypass is probably a little simpler. (But I am still getting used to my new stove and not turning down the air too quickly.)

For me, it comes down to cats have better slow/low burn abilities and non-cats have better glass visibility and light shows.

GE

 

[summit]

Many of you have hit the nail right on the head in relation to my view on CAT stoves: New guy comes into the store, wants to buy a stove to replace his Fisher/All nighter, etc... I am most def not gonna sell him a CAT stove, as a CAT sale is gonna result in about a 1/2 doz calls from him on how the stove isn't burning right, black glass, etc... I think some CAT stoves have their place. Most notably for people like the CAT fans here that have the time and wherewithall to babysit the thing and play with it untill the CAT is at the right temp, and the dials are all adjusted right, etc. CATs are more sensitive to wood quality, as well.
The other reason I don't push CAT stoves is this: we run a stove rebuilding/repair biz in addition to selling new stoves, chimneys, liners, etc... 90% of all the stoves that need rebuilding? You Guessed it: CAT stoves. And the parts needed have an expensive retail price tag... A new CAT goes from 150-280, warped housings and dampers ofter require the cast pieces around them replaced as well... and then there is the Housing for the CAT I see in most CAT stoves (notable exceptions are old CAT englanders and woodstock) which is fragile, lightweight, and expensive... Now many non cat top loaders have similar chambers with fragile pieces like this in them too, and to prove i am not a hypocrite, I am not a fan of these systems, either (although I think Harmans do the best job with these for ease of access, cleaning, etc.).

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I fully admit that the wood wasn't the best quality. I was learning to burn and had the same trials and such everybody did. Wife was learning to burn even more than I was. We're happy with the non cat.

If I got a deal on a cat I'd probably go for it. No reason not to. Cats seem to be better suited for the seasoned burner versus the green one.

Matt

 

[Slow1]

... I think some CAT stoves have their place. Most notably for people like the CAT fans here that have the time and wherewithall to babysit the thing and play with it untill the CAT is at the right temp, and the dials are all adjusted right, etc.

I have to take exception to this statement - Babysit? Adjust dials? Huh? I don't think that waiting 30-40 minutes from cold start to engage the cat with one air adjustment and nothing else really counts as babysitting. And i have no dials to adjust anywhere. Also, once cat is engaged I don't even touch my stove again for 3-7 hours to adjust anything. So, from cold start I touch my stoves controls 3 times until next reload. 1- reduce air to 1/2 after kindling is started, 2&3, close cat damper and set air for burn (at approx 1) for the burn once up to temp. Is it really much less than this for a non-cat?

CATs are more sensitive to wood quality, as well.

This may well be the case although I wonder if this too is a bit overblown. Note the recent post of someone who said they have to run a 1 1/2 air in their fireview if less than well seasoned wood is burned. I wonder just what his wood tests out to be and how overall performance has been. I'm wondering if indeed one can compensate for less seasoned wood with more air just as you can with non-cats. I can't yet form a firm opinion or draw conclusions here.

90% of all the stoves that need rebuilding? You Guessed it: CAT stoves. And the parts needed have an expensive retail price tag... A new CAT goes from 150-280, warped housings and dampers ofter require the cast pieces around them replaced as well... and then there is the Housing for the CAT I see in most CAT stoves (notable exceptions are old CAT englanders and woodstock) which is fragile, lightweight, and expensive...

It seems the issue here is not the cat technology itself, rather it is either the stove designs you are seeing come through your shop, or the people burning the stoves.

I'm sure that there are a lot of consumers out there buying stoves that never burn them right - cat or non-cat. Perhaps in general the non-cat is more tolerant of these folks and as such is easier for a dealer to support (i.e. no support calls). In that respect I can see why they would be 'better' for the dealer. However, that doesn't mean that the technology is exclusively of value to the niche of 'serious on hearth.com 24/7' burners. I expect that there is a significant market segment out there who can appreciate and would properly operate their cat stoves. The challenge for a dealer then is to take the time to get to know their customers and steer them toward the right technology to meet their needs.

 

[North of 60]

Many of you have hit the nail right on the head in relation to my view on CAT stoves: New guy comes into the store, wants to buy a stove to replace his Fisher/All nighter, etc... I am most def not gonna sell him a CAT stove, as a CAT sale is gonna result in about a 1/2 doz calls from him on how the stove isn't burning right, black glass, etc... I think some CAT stoves have their place. Most notably for people like the CAT fans here that have the time and wherewithall to babysit the thing and play with it untill the CAT is at the right temp, and the dials are all adjusted right, etc. CATs are more sensitive to wood quality, as well.
The other reason I don't push CAT stoves is this: we run a stove rebuilding/repair biz in addition to selling new stoves, chimneys, liners, etc... 90% of all the stoves that need rebuilding? You Guessed it: CAT stoves. And the parts needed have an expensive retail price tag... A new CAT goes from 150-280, warped housings and dampers ofter require the cast pieces around them replaced as well... and then there is the Housing for the CAT I see in most CAT stoves (notable exceptions are old CAT englanders and woodstock) which is fragile, lightweight, and expensive... Now many non cat top loaders have similar chambers with fragile pieces like this in them too, and to prove i am not a hypocrite, I am not a fan of these systems, either (although I think Harmans do the best job with these for ease of access, cleaning, etc.).

BLAH BLAH BLAH
There ya go, putting words in other peoples mouths again. Re count/read the posts . I like your explanation of fiddling with dials and things, you make it sounds like a minimum 4th class engineer is required for a CAT stove. You pretty much see things that you only want to hear. Until you HAVE either run a NEWER Fireview,Buck, BK etc.. Id say your shorting yourself on your business opportunities. Maybe you will have to come up north to show the 10-1 CAT stove owners why we switched and have our Naps, PEs etc... out in our garages disconnected. There is a market for people that seriously heat with wood... REALLY!



A NOTE TO OTHER READERS: I know both types of stoves are fine and will work for all peoples types of situations. I am open to that. What I cant stand is narrow minded input to a type/style of heating that may be beneficial to some readers for their heating application and can be ruled out by a person that has a title of wood stove salesman/installer for only 9yrs.
By the way GREAT THREAD Summit.

 

[Todd]

we run a stove rebuilding/repair biz in addition to selling new stoves, chimneys, liners, etc... 90% of all the stoves that need rebuilding? You Guessed it: CAT stoves. And the parts needed have an expensive retail price tag... A new CAT goes from 150-280, warped housings and dampers ofter require the cast pieces around them replaced as well... and then there is the Housing for the CAT I see in most CAT stoves (notable exceptions are old CAT englanders and woodstock) which is fragile, lightweight, and expensive... Now many non cat top loaders have similar chambers with fragile pieces like this in them too, and to prove i am not a hypocrite, I am not a fan of these systems, either (although I think Harmans do the best job with these for ease of access, cleaning, etc.).

I bet 99% of those are VC stoves? I think their design is flawed with all those extra parts and refractory which are doomed from the start along with their new non cat downdrafters. There are cat stoves out there that are more durable and user friendly.

 

[summit]

we run a stove rebuilding/repair biz in addition to selling new stoves, chimneys, liners, etc... 90% of all the stoves that need rebuilding? You Guessed it: CAT stoves. And the parts needed have an expensive retail price tag... A new CAT goes from 150-280, warped housings and dampers ofter require the cast pieces around them replaced as well... and then there is the Housing for the CAT I see in most CAT stoves (notable exceptions are old CAT englanders and woodstock) which is fragile, lightweight, and expensive... Now many non cat top loaders have similar chambers with fragile pieces like this in them too, and to prove i am not a hypocrite, I am not a fan of these systems, either (although I think Harmans do the best job with these for ease of access, cleaning, etc.).

I bet 99% of those are VC stoves? I think their design is flawed with all those extra parts and refractory which are doomed from the start along with their new non cat downdrafters. There are cat stoves out there that are more durable and user friendly.

yup, alot of them are VC and Dutchwest Cat stoves, but we do run into a fair amount of woodstock units that need a total rebuild of the baffle/damper systems around the Cat (although, that being said, I grew up running a woodstock Fireview, and find their system to be superior for a cat stove because of the Fireview's easy top access to the Catalyst).
However, my affinity for noncat stoves is not just because of the parts/repair end... once again, I find the noncat stoves generally produce a cleaner chimney at the end of the year than the CAT systems do: we sweep a lot of chimneys and this is what I have found from my personal dealings with these systems.
also, for north of 60: glad you like the thread, but my experience is more than just in sales/ installs. Rebuilds, service, building hearths, chimneys (both masonry and prefab), dealing with coal, wood, gas, pellets, multifuel... If you could see my cell bill at the end of the month from the hundreds of calls I get from folks (both customers of mine and others who are not) and the results they get from talking to me to solve their issues, you may have a bigger appreciation for my "short" 9 yrs of experience... I've done it all: the NFI, CSIA and CTEP . Not trying to toot my own horn, but my record speaks for itself... BTW, I can see why you dig the BK over the old Napoleon.. as I have said in posts before, Napoleons are good for two things: boat moorings and scrap steel: they are the KIA of the stove industry... disposable.
I understand thereare many dedicated CAT users here, who achieve good results, and I know the numbers game that goes along with the efficiency and burn times.. I'm just sayin the non cat is simplier to use and is an easier system to achieve top results with. Not all non Cats are awesome, there are junk ones out there (just as there are junk cat stoves).. but I'll take a simple tube burner any day over a CAT. My summit is able to achieve 10 hour burns on a full load, just like my jotul firelight and lopi endeavor before it... The old woodstock fireview would do it, too, but I didn't appreciate any extra gain in heat output over the course of that long burn (other than the soapstones staying warm), any more or less hot coals in the a.m., and the glass never stayed clean when we did that long overnight CAT burn...
Please also understand, I am not promoting alot of these "downdraft" rear burn non cat stoves (with, as i have said before, the exception of the Harman system)... I don't really like those, either... I'm talkin a nice tube burner system here...

 

[Backwoods Savage]

So I'll just kick in on the creosote and black glass:

I cleaned our chimney after 2 full seasons of burning (and we burn 100% with wood). We didn't even get a cup of soot and no black creosote.

Our glass does not turn black and we are not afraid to turn the stove down. Most times during winter months we are at 1/4 of the way to 1 on the dial. To get any less we'd have to shut it down completely. Glass stays clean and so does the chimney.

 

[Todd]

[quote author="summit" date="1259530605]
I understand thereare many dedicated CAT users here, who achieve good results, and I know the numbers game that goes along with the efficiency and burn times.. I'm just sayin the non cat is simplier to use and is an easier system to achieve top results with. Not all non Cats are awesome, there are junk ones out there (just as there are junk cat stoves).. but I'll take a simple tube burner any day over a CAT. My summit is able to achieve 10 hour burns on a full load, just like my jotul firelight and lopi endeavor before it... The old woodstock fireview would do it, too, but I didn't appreciate any extra gain in heat output over the course of that long burn (other than the soapstones staying warm), any more or less hot coals in the a.m., and the glass never stayed clean when we did that long overnight CAT burn...
Please also understand, I am not promoting alot of these "downdraft" rear burn non cat stoves (with, as i have said before, the exception of the Harman system)... I don't really like those, either... I'm talkin a nice tube burner system here... [/quote]

You must of burned the older Fireview 201 model? It was basically the same as the Classic but had a window with no air wash. The new 205 mod is more efficient, has an excellent air wash and double pane glass, my glass stays absolutely clean for about a month or so then needs a damp paper towel to wipe off a thin white film. I also get meaningful heat up to 12 hours with full loads of good hardwood.

Another question for you, I'm curious about the recent thread where cracks were found in some members PE stoves. Have you seen anything similar or had to deal with welding repairs?

 

[summit]

[quote author="summit" date="1259530605]
I understand thereare many dedicated CAT users here, who achieve good results, and I know the numbers game that goes along with the efficiency and burn times.. I'm just sayin the non cat is simplier to use and is an easier system to achieve top results with. Not all non Cats are awesome, there are junk ones out there (just as there are junk cat stoves).. but I'll take a simple tube burner any day over a CAT. My summit is able to achieve 10 hour burns on a full load, just like my jotul firelight and lopi endeavor before it... The old woodstock fireview would do it, too, but I didn't appreciate any extra gain in heat output over the course of that long burn (other than the soapstones staying warm), any more or less hot coals in the a.m., and the glass never stayed clean when we did that long overnight CAT burn...
Please also understand, I am not promoting alot of these "downdraft" rear burn non cat stoves (with, as i have said before, the exception of the Harman system)... I don't really like those, either... I'm talkin a nice tube burner system here...

You must of burned the older Fireview 201 model? It was basically the same as the Classic but had a window with no air wash. The new 205 mod is more efficient, has an excellent air wash and double pane glass, my glass stays absolutely clean for about a month or so then needs a damp paper towel to wipe off a thin white film. I also get meaningful heat up to 12 hours with full loads of good hardwood.

Another question for you, I'm curious about the recent thread where cracks were found in some members PE stoves. Have you seen anything similar or had to deal with welding repairs?

we've sold over 200 PE's in the last 2 yrs, never a weld problem, or any problem for that matter....

 

[snowtime]

When we decided to move up from our old smoker there were a few considerations that I think most who do not get snowed in most years would worry about. On the non-cat front too many of the baffles were easy to damage those burn tubes could be damaged by over zealous loading also. We wanted a stove that we could not damage even though we are careful loaders. Top loaders were a no no the less moving parts the better. That is why we picked the T6. The cat was ruled out because we felt that Murphy's Law would make it act up when we were snowed in so we would have to keep a spare.
As far as having a good fire set to a leave it position I think that relates to the competence of the burner not so much the stove. If we decide to go skiing in the morning and did not run a fire over night both my DW and I can have a cold start fire hot and air lever backed down after 20 to 30 minutes thats fast enough for us. I do not doubt some are faster but to compare we would have to use same wood etc. Of course both types can be great but only if you buy the best of the bunch.

 

[53flyer]

Cat vs. Non- Cats sure seem to have a lot of reasonable arguments for those long burn times but it also seems like there's a meaningful difference between the effectiveness that different manufacturers have with their use of cat technology. Between manufacturer's data and, more importantly, actual user data from places like this forum, there's a sense that some are doing a "significantly" better job with cat technology than others. Specifically, BK stoves seem to have the longest burn times among Cat stoves in general (noted by people here who actually use them, not just what BK says). The stove temps referenced by Cat owners irt these long burn times (generally referenced as useful burn temps) seem the same as temps referenced by non-cat owners irt their burn times (around 200-300°). BK's just appear to be at those useful temps much later in the burn cycle...

Another question for you, I'm curious about the recent thread where cracks were found in some members PE stoves. Have you seen anything similar or had to deal with welding repairs?

we've sold over 200 PE's in the last 2 yrs, never a weld problem, or any problem for that matter....

That should be no big surprise to anyone... Why? Because 1) No one should expect to see reports of problems when the very locations of these problems dictate a fairly in-depth manner inspection and 2) 99+% of stove owners will never look close enough to find those cracks without being told exactly where/how/what to look for.

Look at the example of Hog's crack discovery from Sisu's thread: For the first 3-4 posts Hog was quite confident he didn't have any problems like Sisu was experiencing. Then he looked again and what do you know? Hog is an experienced burner who does yrly maintenance & inspections but even he had to take another look to actually find the cracks. Most of the other PE owners who found cracks in that thread only did so because they read that thread (and therefore knew to look in the first place).

The odds seem extremely high that if those 200+ PE's were all inspected you'd find at least 5-10+% had the same problems but just haven't been identified. It goes back to the whole proactive vs. reactive discussion of that thread. In other words, if a proactive approach were taken irt informing PE owners of what to look for it's extremely likely that many more stove problems would be found. Of course, if such an inspection did-in-fact result in many more weld claims, it would create a headache for dealers/PE. However, if there's no concern that an actual problem would be identified by looking then it shouldn't be a big deal to recommend specific area(s) be looked at closer by stove owners on their next maintenance/inspection of their stoves. They do this sort of thing in aviation all the time to check a type or model of aircraft for a potential problem. Sometimes a problem isn't found but other times it's verified and a corrective fix results that makes those, and sometimes all, aircraft better. Have any of the PE dealers on this forum informed all their PE customers of the exact areas/problems identified in Sisu's 15+pg thread so they could look for these problems with their own stoves???

Just my 1.5 cents and I'm sure I'll hear (again) about how nobody wants to take steps like this "until they know" IF there IS a problem. I'm used to this sort of reaction because it's the typical denial/procrastination response you get from someone until something "bad happens" at which point you see those same people acting/saying "we want to assure people that we are taking steps to...etc, etc.".

Related statement irt procrastination- That's a big reason why society gets into so much trouble on so many fronts (nobody wants to take care of a problem until it's hits them in the face). Strange, because it almost always costs a lot more to fix something later than sooner... One of many examples: When interest on our national debt is so great that we can barely afford to pay it you'll finally see substantial steps taken to remedy the problem. At which point it'll cost us many multiples more to fix in the form of higher taxes and a much lower standard of living :shut:. Too bad we never seem to learn and people typically won't step up before hand. Sorry about that little side track...

 

[fattyfat1]

Many of you have hit the nail right on the head in relation to my view on CAT stoves: New guy comes into the store, wants to buy a stove to replace his Fisher/All nighter, etc... I am most def not gonna sell him a CAT stove, as a CAT sale is gonna result in about a 1/2 doz calls from him on how the stove isn't burning right, black glass, etc... I think some CAT stoves have their place. Most notably for people like the CAT fans here that have the time and wherewithall to babysit the thing and play with it untill the CAT is at the right temp, and the dials are all adjusted right, etc. CATs are more sensitive to wood quality, as well.
The other reason I don't push CAT stoves is this: we run a stove rebuilding/repair biz in addition to selling new stoves, chimneys, liners, etc... 90% of all the stoves that need rebuilding? You Guessed it: CAT stoves. And the parts needed have an expensive retail price tag... A new CAT goes from 150-280, warped housings and dampers ofter require the cast pieces around them replaced as well... and then there is the Housing for the CAT I see in most CAT stoves (notable exceptions are old CAT englanders and woodstock) which is fragile, lightweight, and expensive... Now many non cat top loaders have similar chambers with fragile pieces like this in them too, and to prove i am not a hypocrite, I am not a fan of these systems, either (although I think Harmans do the best job with these for ease of access, cleaning, etc.).

wow, just wow. Customer service and good salesmen know their product and can help potential customers make an informed descision on what stove would be right for them. you are only hurting yourself. I touched my stove twice today. once to load it this morning, and once two hours later to turn down the thermostat. that was 13 HOURS AGO. HOW'S THAT FOR FIDDLING. MY HOUSE HAS A 3 DEGREE TEMP SWING TODAY, AND ITS 3200 SQ FT. is that loud enough for ya????????? Thank God for the internet, if people depended on dealers like you for stove purchasing info, half of all woodstove buyers out there would have a stove not suited for their home.

Cheers.

 

[Wet1]

But 20+ hour burns with useful heat is a crock.

BB, how many btu/hour does it take before heat is quantified as "useful"?

 

[BrotherBart]

But 20+ hour burns with useful heat is a crock.

BB, how many btu/hour does it take before heat is quantified as "useful"?

Since I don't have anything to measure BTU output anymore than anybody else does I go by heat of the stove. I consider my stoves putting out useful heat until they get under 200 degrees surface temp.

 

[[email protected]]

I've recently changed my mind about some of this. I use electric baseboards for supplemental heat, and I installed programmable electronic thermostats on them so they wouldn't cost me too much. Usually the house never falls to the setback temperature overnight anyway, so the heaters are off all night whether I have a fire in the stove or not. So why leave a fire burning overnight?

So now I build smaller fires that run on more or less full draft, one in the morning to get the house up to temperature, and one in the early evening if it's cold out. Since I work at home, I don't have a mid-day setback programmed into my baseboards, but stoke the fire from time to time as needed to keep the baseboards off.

I basically never have a full woodbox except when the house is cold, first thing in the morning, so I'm never in the position of closing the draft on a full load of unburned wood. So who needs a cat? Even an airtight stove seems like overkill for this method.

I talk about the thermostats on my blog, by the way. Amazing how much they changed my thinking about heating.

 

[BrowningBAR]

I've recently changed my mind about some of this. I use electric baseboards for supplemental heat, and I installed programmable electronic thermostats on them so they wouldn't cost me too much. Usually the house never falls to the setback temperature overnight anyway, so the heaters are off all night whether I have a fire in the stove or not. So why leave a fire burning overnight?

So now I build smaller fires that run on more or less full draft, one in the morning to get the house up to temperature, and one in the early evening if it's cold out. Since I work at home, I don't have a mid-day setback programmed into my baseboards, but stoke the fire from time to time as needed to keep the baseboards off.

I basically never have a full woodbox except when the house is cold, first thing in the morning, so I'm never in the position of closing the draft on a full load of unburned wood. So who needs a cat? Even an airtight stove seems like overkill for this method.

I talk about the thermostats on my blog, by the way. Amazing how much they changed my thinking about heating.

If I used electric baseborads for heat my electric bill would be $500-600 a month. If I built small fires I would burn through more wood and I would be adding wood every hour to two hours to maintain the stove temperature.

 

[Wet1]

But 20+ hour burns with useful heat is a crock.

BB, how many btu/hour does it take before heat is quantified as "useful"?

Since I don't have anything to measure BTU output anymore than anybody else does I go by heat of the stove. I consider my stoves putting out useful heat until they get under 200 degrees surface temp.

So are you saying you don't believe a modern cat wood stove can't have surface temps over 200 degrees after 20 hours (without reloading)?

 

[Slow1]

I've recently changed my mind about some of this. I use electric baseboards for supplemental heat, and I installed programmable electronic thermostats on them so they wouldn't cost me too much. Usually the house never falls to the setback temperature overnight anyway, so the heaters are off all night whether I have a fire in the stove or not. So why leave a fire burning overnight?

I can go with this - makes sense if you don't need the heat then don't burn. Although I rather like not having to build a new fire so having a low burn for longer (just spreading the heat out over time) then not having to build a new fire works better for me it is a personal preference.

So now I build smaller fires that run on more or less full draft, one in the morning to get the house up to temperature, and one in the early evening if it's cold out.

This is where you lose me. To run any stove (cat or non-cat) at full draft for the whole burn is generally a waste of fuel. I suppose if you are saying that you aren't getting the stove up to temperature to achieve secondary burn (in non-cat) or to light off a cat then it would seem those really are small fires and beg the question of why even bother?

Since I work at home, I don't have a mid-day setback programmed into my baseboards, but stoke the fire from time to time as needed to keep the baseboards off.

Seems like more work, but then again it can be enjoyable too I suppose. Again, personal preference. Even working from home I have a preference to load the stove once then let it go all day and not think about it again (and never have my backup heat kick in either).

I basically never have a full woodbox except when the house is cold, first thing in the morning, so I'm never in the position of closing the draft on a full load of unburned wood. So who needs a cat? Even an airtight stove seems like overkill for this method.

I talk about the thermostats on...

I too have programmable thermostats. I don't have electric baseboards, rather I have a three zone forced air system. Obviously nowhere near the flexibility of setting each room to individual temperatures that you would have. However, I agree that programmable is the way to go. But bottom line is that I still desire to not use my backup heat at all if possible as my wood heat is significantly less expensive (about 1/3 the cost this year). I have the stove centrally located and it is in the space that we use the most - i.e. I'm not heating a big part of the house that we aren't using just to try and get it where we do need it.

However, this whole discussion is a tangent to the topic at hand - Cat or not doesn't have much to do with this does it? It seems you are somewhat saying you don't really need your stove much and are satisfied with utilizing your baseboard electric for a significant amount of maintaining the comfort in your home. Thus it doesn't really matter if your stove is efficient or performing well or not.

 

[Slow1]

But 20+ hour burns with useful heat is a crock.

BB, how many btu/hour does it take before heat is quantified as "useful"?

Since I don't have anything to measure BTU output anymore than anybody else does I go by heat of the stove. I consider my stoves putting out useful heat until they get under 200 degrees surface temp.

So are you saying you don't believe a modern cat wood stove can't have surface temps over 200 degrees after 20 hours (without reloading)?

I'm lost - too many negatives in there, can someone translate?

 

[[email protected]]

So are you saying you don’t believe a modern cat wood stove can’t have surface temps over 200 degrees after 20 hours (without reloading)?

I'm saying that when I don't need any heat at all during the middle of the day, a long burn time doesn't help me. When I don't need any heat at all overnight, a long burn time doesn't help me. When I'm not home, keeping the house warm doesn't help me. In short, in mild climates, where you usually don't need heat 24 hours a day, long burn times aren't helpful.

So my thinking is that a cat is a way of extracting high efficiencies from long-burn-time fires, which mostly don't apply to me. So I haven't replaced the cat in my 12-year-old Oregon Woodstove.

 

[53flyer]

So are you saying you don't believe a modern cat wood stove can't have surface temps over 200 degrees after 20 hours (without reloading)?

I'm lost - too many negatives in there, can someone translate?

It's just a re-write mistake. Wet accidentally left both don't & can't in the sentence. He intended to write:
1)"...you don't believe...can have..."
OR
2) "...you believe...can't have..."

I don't think BB wants to talk about it though because he's already mentioned that he doesn't believe in the 20+ hr burn times (with surface temps >200deg) that some of the forum's burners have discussed getting. I believe someone was recently writing about stuffing their BK full of hard wood and getting around 40hrs right? I seem to remember them writing about having an active cat but don't recall if they mentioned the surface temp but if the cat's active doesn't that pretty much indicate the surface temp would've been >200?

 

[53flyer]

So are you saying you don’t believe a modern cat wood stove can’t have surface temps over 200 degrees after 20 hours (without reloading)?

I'm saying that when I don't need any heat at all during the middle of the day, a long burn time doesn't help me. When I don't need any heat at all overnight, a long burn time doesn't help me. When I'm not home, keeping the house warm doesn't help me. In short, in mild climates, where you usually don't need heat 24 hours a day, long burn times aren't helpful.

So my thinking is that a cat is a way of extracting high efficiencies from long-burn-time fires, which mostly don't apply to me. So I haven't replaced the cat in my 12-year-old Oregon Woodstove.

Why wouldn't it help you to be able to use less wood? You mentioned burning inefficiently with the draft left open most of the time (which burns up your wood faster). If you burned the typical way a cat stove is supposed to operate you'd burn less quantity wood right? Why wouldn't that help?

 

[SolarAndWood]

Why wouldn't that help?

There are many ways to go about heating your home and many factors that influence the strategy one chooses. Zoned heating especially with cheap electric rates combined with throwing some wood in a stove that has paid for itself many times over doesn't seem like a bad strategy in a mild climate.

 

[SolarAndWood]

I believe someone was recently writing about stuffing their BK full of hard wood and getting around 40hrs right? I seem to remember them writing about having an active cat but don't recall if they mentioned the surface temp but if the cat's active doesn't that pretty much indicate the surface temp would've been >200?

Yes. That was in a King stuffed with 2 year seasoned locust and a low burn.