Cat / Non Cat

[North of 60]

A+ and amen Todd.

 

[mellow]

I find the fire quite active with a Cat stove, I like how it just bursts into flames. I have an older cat stove with old cats that I ran for most of the season last year, made me a believer in Cat stoves, if this small stove with old cats can put out that much heat I can't wait to find a newer stove with newer Cat technology in it, Like a Buck or optimally a Blaze King Princess.

I have yet to figure out how to embed a youtube video on this site so here is a link to a video of my Cat running showing active flames: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ceaV_kOuqM

 

[Highbeam]

There's a few seperate threads worth of info going on here.

The HS EQ stove is a big dog. It has a 4.0 CF firebox which is the biggest non-cat that I have seen but certainly not the biggest stove available. It makes 120,000 btu which is the highest I could find but only 20% more than the PE summit or BK King which roll in at 97k. You could also say that the summit only puts out 16.7% less than the EQ for some fun with math... The 8" flue allows you to select from the large cat stoves on the market and I would be all over a BK king if I had that flue. The HS EQ is right at 4000$ and I don't know of a more expensive stove.

I agree with Todd that a real 24/7 burner most often has the stove on a low or the lowest setting. The higher settings are for warm up in the morning or for when it is extra bitter cold out. Overnight and during the day I cruise my stove nice and low while trying to stay clean with it.

To the OP, don't rule out the cat stoves and definintely don't rule out stoves with ceramic baffles. The ceramic top baffles are way different than the ceramic interiors of some of the VCs and other downdraft designs. Many many stove brands have the ceramic baffle (roof) and after shoving almost 12 cords through my non-cat with a ceramic baffle I have not broken it.

All of the cat stoves are rated for very small areas. Even the biggest BK king is only rated for 2000 despite throwing 97000 btu. I'm not sure what to make of it except that I am confident that you can heat 2000 SF with the BK king.

The PEs are good and that T5 is a gem.

 

[jakehunter]

Thanks,

What are good Cat stoves?

 

[Todd]

Thanks,

What are good Cat stoves?

Woodstock, Blaze King, Energy King, Country Flame, Buck

 

[karl]

Let me clarify my low burn statement. I said cats can burn at a lower rate than a non cats but you rarely want to burn that low. Non cats can burn pretty low too, just not as low as a cat, but still plenty low enough. On my Summit I use two settings. Wide open to get a fire going and almost completely closed once it is going. I do gradually close it down. You might need it closed more in the shoulder months. This is where a cat could have an advantage. However, I have found the mass in my stove works quite well. I throw a half load of pine or poplar in it, get the thing hot, and then leave it alone for hours. It puts outs heat for a long time.

As for the secondaries on a cat. I saw the video. It looks nice and peaceful, but nothing like the 'stairing in to the fires of hell' show you get from a non cat.

With a 2000 square foot house, I would look into a 3 cubic foot cat stove. You get long burn times and it won't heat you out of the house.

Of course my house isn't the best for insulation and this is the year I'm going to do something about it. I'm going from 40 year old r-29 bat in the attic to r-50 and from r-nothing in the floor to hopefully r-29. I'm hoping I'll be on here complaining about how the Summit is now too big for the house.

 

[jakehunter]

Thanks,

Our home was built 2 years ago. It is very confusing on the SF of a wood stove. I belive 2000SF is where I should be.

 

[SolarAndWood]

SF is a guideline at best. BTUs are much more relevant but even they are misleading to the uneducated/unexperienced (as I was). Quality of wood, where you live, how your house is built, sited, what your wife likes, prevailing winds, how hard of a winter etc have a profound impact on how your stove performs relative to your expectations/goals.

 

[jakehunter]

Thanks, great information. But, I am still alittle confused. The closest PE dealer in 3 hours away is that smart buy? Harmon I have not been able to get anyone to coment on the Harmon Oakwood other than the firedome system. Is it hard to control does it last????? The other problem I have is the englander and the drolet are great stoves from what I have read. So, why would I or anyone else buy any other stove hugh price difference. I believe that I have not came accross as to why but, someone here knows. Please help.




Thanks,

 

[Highbeam]

If you like the looks of the englander stove then buy it. It's a great deal on a very functional stove that is just plainer looking than the others. The big englander is a very effective no-frills non-cat stove. The "dealer" support is replaced by manufacturer support which is available at their website, over the phone, or even right here on the hearth.com as the tech guys are members here.

Please don't settle for a stove that you don't want just because there is a local dealer. The dealer that I bought my hearthstone from was going out of business and I found excellent service straight from the manufacturer.

 

[Slow1]

Please don't settle for a stove that you don't want just because there is a local dealer. The dealer that I bought my hearthstone from was going out of business and I found excellent service straight from the manufacturer.

I'll second this! Think of it this way - if you buy a quality stove, install it properly and operate it well then you should not need dealer service for the most part. Any advice you may need can be found either on the phone, email, or here. If you need parts (warranty etc) then you will need your dealer, but then you can always have it shipped to you... Now, naturally there is going to be that rare occasion when a quality stove from a good company will have a warranty issue and it would be nice to have a good dealer that will come out and just 'solve the problem' but it seems that level of service is getting more and more rare...

 

[karl]

Give Tom at chimney sweep online a crack at selling you one. He's a member here and I remember along time ago he sold one to a person on here that wasn't qualified to operate a thermostat on a furnace. Through phone calls and a lenghty thread in here, she was a happy camper.

 

[firefighterjake]

Thanks,

What are good Cat stoves?

wonder if CONSUMER REPORTS rates them. here u might get biassed opininons

Consumer Reports is useful . . . but there are some things they don't evaluate . . . I don't believe you will find woodstoves there except in very generic articles describing some models and how some of the new stoves burn differently than the older stoves.

Wood splitters is another product they don't evaluate.

 

[Wood Duck]

I think the OP was initially asking for advice on choosing a stove that would be safe to operate, since he hasn't burned wood before. My two cents is that either cat or non-cat stoves are probably equally safe to operate, and neither is really complicated in terms of the controls or the standard operating procedures. I think anyone who cares enough to be asking questions and joining this forum is going to be able to safely operate a wood stove. I would recommend that the installation be done properly, with a nice big hearth, plenty of clearance, a good chimney, etc., and that you burn dry wood and check the chimney often for creosote. Start slow, and watch a few fires from beginning to end so you understand how much wood and air your stove can handle without getting too hot, and you should be fine. Burning at peak efficiency with minimum wood use, optimal indoor temp., etc. is an art that takes years to master (depending on how finicky you are about results), but operating safely is not, in my opinion, particularly difficult. You managed to log onto the internet and read this post - wood burning is a lot less complicated.

 

[jakehunter]

Thanks, for the info. I am understanding alot more thanks, to this site. I will not be able to build a hearth not enough room. I was going to go with a stove board that is larger than required.

Thanks,

 

[firefighterjake]

I think the OP was initially asking for advice on choosing a stove that would be safe to operate, since he hasn't burned wood before. My two cents is that either cat or non-cat stoves are probably equally safe to operate, and neither is really complicated in terms of the controls or the standard operating procedures. I think anyone who cares enough to be asking questions and joining this forum is going to be able to safely operate a wood stove. I would recommend that the installation be done properly, with a nice big hearth, plenty of clearance, a good chimney, etc., and that you burn dry wood and check the chimney often for creosote. Start slow, and watch a few fires from beginning to end so you understand how much wood and air your stove can handle without getting too hot, and you should be fine. Burning at peak efficiency with minimum wood use, optimal indoor temp., etc. is an art that takes years to master (depending on how finicky you are about results), but operating safely is not, in my opinion, particularly difficult. You managed to log onto the internet and read this post - wood burning is a lot less complicated.

Well said WD.

 

[firefighterjake]

Thanks, for the info. I am understanding alot more thanks, to this site. I will not be able to build a hearth not enough room. I was going to go with a stove board that is larger than required.

Thanks,

You're in a good place Jakehunter . . . and yes, reading and asking questions here is very helpful.

About the hearth . . . I think you might have some terms mixed up. The hearth is the floor protection. . . it doesn't have to be big or bulky, depending on how you design it or build it. You can build your own hearth (portable or fixed) relatively easily and cheaply and it can be flush to the nearby floor, a few inches high or even a foot or more in height -- it all depends on your R value needs and what you want for a design.

Buying a listed stove board can be done . . . and there are some nice ones out there . . . and going with a size larger than required is something I highly recommend (for those inevitable ash/ember spills, the mess, etc.) . . . but if you go this route (vs. building your own hearth) make sure the floor protection is both listed and has the proper R value for your stove. As you will find, some stoves only require ember protection (none to little R value requirements) while some stoves require fairly high R value requirements . . . which may or may not be met with a stove board bought in a store.

 

[Slow1]

On the subject of hearths / hearth pads - I highly recommend that you go larger than required. I went with minimum spec with first stove and found that it would have been much nicer to have a bit more space to not only stick things but there were a few times that I had sparks fly (I don't know what wood that was, but every time I opened the door it was like fireworks!) and I would have felt much happier if there were a few more inches in front of that door.

My original pad was a factory made 48x48 (was only a couple inches larger than min required) that was maybe an inch or so thick. With new stove I filled the whole area well beyond required with my pad and made it taller - about 5" just for looks and so we could sit on the edge if we wanted to. It also in our case helps to make it a bit more obvious to the kids that they aren't to step on it "part of the danger zone" to stay away from.

I found making my own pad to be easier than expected and I spent quite a bit less on this larger and nicer pad than I did on the original one that was manufactured. I have never done tile work before - it wasn't that hard to learn on the fly. I imagine that someone with talent/skill could really do it quickly!

 

[Arlo]

any secondary burn that routes the exhaust to the rear of the stove is junk, cat or not. the best cat stoves i have ever run into are the woodstocks, as their cats are underneath the stove top, thus routing all that usable heat to a spot on the stove where it (generally) works the heat into the room and not the back of your hearth (they are also cast iron housings for the cat, which i will get into the housing in a minute!)... some of the Old and new CDW stoves routhe the exhaust in the same fashion, but there are too many parts in there for my liking... a good non cat stove with a simple tube style system and a baffle will work great for you. Most of these top load stoves you see out there (with the "firedome, afterburn or everburn et all" rear secondary) systems were all designed by old VC engineers... this must be a pretty good gig for them, cause they had one idea about 20 years ago and keep shooping it around and peddling it to all these companies that want to build a stove to compare to the VCs. ask the sales guy to let you touch the secondary burn chamber in these rear routing cat and non cat stoves which introduces 2ndary air or holds the cat in place, just touching the fragile fiber crud in the back, and seeing how you have to handle it several times a year to clean it, will turn you off from these units.

I feel opinions are like a-holes. Everyones got one No offense to you summit, just makin a joke. But seriously, keep that in mind when your are deciding on your cat or not cat stove. I'm about to give you opinion.

Summit mentions above that all stoves that re-route the exhaust to the rear of the stove are junk, well, I don't agree. I think it really depends on your stove and whether it is cast-iron or steel, whether it is correctly sized, who makes it and where it will be placed (in a fireplace hearth or on a platform hearth). I own a Jotul F600 cat model which is a rear-diversion cat stove. I also have a heat deflector shield to deflect heat away from wall. Traditionally rear diversion stoves need more clearance from walls creating intrusion into the room (one reason they are not liked). Some models are speced to use a heat shield (must be manufactured approved) My Jotul is set up for this. Anyway this stove absolutely cooks and I can't see it ever being refered to as junk. It will outperform many other stoves and is built solidly. Further more Summit stated "needing to clean the cat several times a year". NOT TRUE! I clean mine once a year. If you burn seasoned wood or at least semi seasoned wood, and you wait until the stove is up to temp before you turn the cat on (open the diversion) there is no need to clean the cat more than once a year. The catalytic combuster (not the stove, my stove is over 10 years old) usually last 5 years then you have to buy a new one for about $150.00. I have heard of people getting ten years out of one. This is not alot of money when you think about it. To clean the cat, all you need to do is soak it in white vinegar for a day and then air dry it, don't scrub them, they get fragile as they age. As far as the insulation around it, yes its delicate but its also sorounded by cast iron plates so the only time its exposed is when you are doing maintinance, all it takes is being gentile when handling the cat once a year. Don't be a caveman. As far as top loading, I love mine. There is nothing like coming in with an armful of wood, stepping on a top loader lift pedal and dropping the wood in. No ashes dropping out of the door, no wood wanting to roll out. So basically my TOP LOADER, REAR CAT stove has made me very, very happy for the last two years of burning. I think summits use of "all" when refering to "some" stoves is no help to you and does you no good when investigating stoves. Without a doubt there are bad stoves of all designs, its up the forum members to share their unbiased information based on experience.

The cat stoves in "my opinion" are slightly better than non-cat stoves since they are more controlable, burn cleaner (not all, but most of the good names), give longer burn times and are far prettier to watch when burning.

So I have to disagree with Summits post. From time to time you find a Jotul f600 cat model (they no longer make them due to being to expensive to make) on craigs list. I have been keeping my eye out, for if I do find one I would snatch it up to use in my timber frame.

Either way you go, you will be happy if you stick with a good name. I agree with Summit that woodstocks are a quality product, but I lean towards Jotul since they have been doing it along long time. Anyway I hope this helps. I do agree with the others about staying away from VC, not alot of good recent history there.