Slow1 said:
The Fireview is just a itty bitty baby compared to Hearthstones Equinox which weighs in at 700lbs. If Woodstock would just come out with something about the size of the Mansfield, It would be a huge seller.
Cat / Non Cat
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The Fireview is just a itty bitty baby compared to Hearthstones Equinox which weighs in at 700lbs. If Woodstock would just come out with something about the size of the Mansfield, It would be a huge seller.
The Equinox puts out 120K? Any idea what it puts out at minimum air? Seems like a big simple stove, just what I am looking for. What is the downside? Anything else compare to it?
I am more than happy to move a 700lb stove once if it performs as advertised.
I am more than happy to move a 700lb stove once if it performs as advertised.
the only downside that i know of is that it runs on a expensive 8" flue. Other then that, its pure bad ass. We burned one for display last season.
I already run 8" and it will sit in the middle of a 1000 sq ft room. I'm looking for something that's bombproof, gets me by until the boiler is in and looks good with a fire in it thereafter. Does anything else put out that kind of heat?
no thats the mansfield. the display i am talking about was in the showroom of my old employer. I sure miss being a hearthstone dealer, that line is one of the best in the industry.
So definitely meets the bombproof test? I'm definitely burnt out on my two VC cats. They did not stand up to being run 24/7 from October to May often wide open. To be fair, they paid for themselves many times over and kept us warm.
Are they 24/7 friendly? Shove wood in when convenient, dump ash when the fire is low when necessary, etc?
With a stove that puts out 120K, I might be able to skip the boiler if I can get the circulation right. Then, put the money into solar dhw.
Are they 24/7 friendly? Shove wood in when convenient, dump ash when the fire is low when necessary, etc?
With a stove that puts out 120K, I might be able to skip the boiler if I can get the circulation right. Then, put the money into solar dhw.
the stove is built like a tank. it has a huge side load that can take a huge round. the stove will hold about three bundles of wood that you get from the grocery on one load. The stove will hold a pine fire most of the night and into the morning. If there is a stove on the market designed to be burned 24/7, its the equinox. Here is the vent free model (broken link removed to http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/wood-stoves/stove-details?product_id=1) 
I was pretty amused with the photography on their website. Thanks again for the insight...I'll take a look at them tomorrow.
yea they need some work in the marketing department. That side load drops down which helps keep the mess off the floor. In your situation, with a 8" flue already installed, i dont know what else to consider. Anything else you would pick for the most part would run sub par on 8". There is to much cost associated with running a 6 inch flue to fit most of the other options. You are fortunate that you need a 24/7 heater, and you happen to have the correct size flue for one of the largest, if not the largest epa stove on the market.
Some other extra large firebox stoves with 8" flues to consider are Blaze King, Country Flame, and Buck. They are cat stoves but not the same design as VC.
The 13 foot chimney is going to be a problem for cat or non cat stoves. Most manufactuers want 15 feet or more. Don't worry you can put an extenstion on the chimney, just make sure that exposed portion is insulated. Ideally, all of it should be insulated.
As far as cat versus noncat, they both are good stoves. I have a Pacific Engery Summit. It's a non cat and is very easy to use. You can search on here, nobody has problems with them other than the baffle gasket. We have concluded that they are expendable, and they only cost a buck or so to replace each year. I ran mine a whole year without one and no problems. I would recomend looking at PE products.
Here's the deal on the cat non cat thing. Cats can burn at a lower rate than non cats. Sounds good, but rarely are you going to want to burn a stove that low. What you need is a stove with atleast a 2 cubic foot firebox. If you have a really small house than go with a bigger cat rather than a smaller non cat. That way you get the overnight burn without the over heating. If you have a bigger house, then it doesn't matter.
Lastly, the non cats will give you a beautiful fire to look at. The cats will look like a cigar burning.
As far as cat versus noncat, they both are good stoves. I have a Pacific Engery Summit. It's a non cat and is very easy to use. You can search on here, nobody has problems with them other than the baffle gasket. We have concluded that they are expendable, and they only cost a buck or so to replace each year. I ran mine a whole year without one and no problems. I would recomend looking at PE products.
Here's the deal on the cat non cat thing. Cats can burn at a lower rate than non cats. Sounds good, but rarely are you going to want to burn a stove that low. What you need is a stove with atleast a 2 cubic foot firebox. If you have a really small house than go with a bigger cat rather than a smaller non cat. That way you get the overnight burn without the over heating. If you have a bigger house, then it doesn't matter.
Lastly, the non cats will give you a beautiful fire to look at. The cats will look like a cigar burning.
Thanks, What would be some good products I should look at PE and Woodstock and? My house is 2000SF. I believe from reading I should be looking for a non cat with out all the ceramic baffle's. I do not have a problem working on the stove but, who wants to spend a bunch of money and fixing the stove all the time.
There is a woodstock / harmon dealer in my area but, they are not helpful at all. They want to sell the stove but, not install it I have checked with insurance and they want it professionaly installed.
Thanks,
There is a woodstock / harmon dealer in my area but, they are not helpful at all. They want to sell the stove but, not install it I have checked with insurance and they want it professionaly installed.
Thanks,
jakehunter said:
Travis Industries makes two quality brands: Lopi and Avalon. My Lopi Endeavor uses a combination of steel and firebrick in the baffle. We've only had the stove one season, so I can't really comment on how well this combination holds up over time. But even with stoves that use other materials, I've not read anything on here that would indicate they need constant repair/replacement or that any are overly complicated to repair/replace.
If you do go with a non-cat plate steel stove, there are many quality manufacturers out there: Travis (Lopi/Avalon), Englander, Quadrafire, Pacific Energy, etc. Others will suggest more, I'm sure.
One feature I love about our Endeavor (also featured on the Lopi Liberty) is their use of a bypass damper. This is not to be confused with a bypass on a cat stove, but it sort of does the same thing. When I start a fresh fire or get ready to load wood onto a coal bed, I open the bypass damper by pulling a little metal rod on the right side of the Endeavor. This opens up a hole in the baffle, allowing exhaust to go straight up the chimney, thus bypassing the baffle. Not only does it assist with restarting fires quickly/keeping smoke out of the house, but it's great when it's time to clean the flue - nothing to move in the baffle! Just pull the bypass open, sweep, and shovel out the ash.
Jake, one thing people haven't mentioned is the heat cycle of cat versus non-cat, they have only talked about length of the burn cycle. With a non-cat the only way to keep the stove top at a reasonably constant temperature is to keep feeding it every couple of hours which kind of defeats the clean burn philosophy.
jakehunter said:
Call around - my stove(s) have been professionally installed by non-dealer sweep. One doesn't have to be associated with a shop to be a professional, licensed/insured installer. Check with the better sweeps in your area and you are sure to find someone. If you are lucky you will find a sweep who doesn't do installs - he'll sure have an opinion on all the installs around and may well point you to who does the better work (at least in his opinion).
As to dealers - you sure you found a woodstock dealer? My understanding is that they only do direct....
Not so random thoughts . . .
Vermont Castings: I would personally steer clear of this brand. Some folks here love 'em . . . and it seems as though an equal amount hate 'em. As for myself, not even figuring in the sometimes challenging aspect of running them . . . any brand that continually goes broke and then refuses to honor a past warranty is not a good investment in my opinion.
Brands: Take Slow's advice. Check out the Stove Make and Models section here . . . stove owners are pretty honest about stoves for the most part. I mean, I love my Jotul Oslo, but I'll be the first to tell you it's not without a fault or two. Also, if you don't get a good "vibe" from one stove dealer, try another . . . remember you're buying customer service, not just a woodstove. There are many very, good brands of stoves out there and perhaps a few that are not so good.
Professional Installation: I had to have my stove professionally installed to make the insurance company happy . . . even though installing these things is wicked easy. If you find a stove and dealer you like, but can't get them to do the install check around to see if any professional sweeps also install stoves. In some cases it may even be cheaper to have a professional sweep do the job rather than the dealership . . . and you make the insurance company happy.
Pagey: As usual, some great and informative posts.
Over-Firing: Any stove can over-fire . . . learning how to load the fire, when to load the fire, how to control the fire load and air flow will come to you in time with practice.
Why I went with a Non Cat: I did some research and went with a non-cat since I wanted a simpler system (I'm a pretty simple guy . . . one could say almost simple to the point of being a simpleton or an idiot), my friend had a VC with an early generation cat that gave him all kinds of issues and I didn't want to have to replace the cat every so often and I had heard that while well seasoned wood is important in any modern stove it is very, very important with the cats and I was a bit concerned with my wood supply in the first year. That was then . . . today, after having read a whole lot more and hearing personal stories from users of both types of stoves, I think I could safely say that while I still would have a preference for non-cats I would certainly not fear cat stoves and would in fact not rule out a cat stove just because it has a cat in it (unless of course the cat in the stove is a mountain lion . . . in which case I would want to have a chainsaw nearby so I could take care of it.
)
Safety: The safety of the stove and house begins with you as the operator. I think I can safely say (in my present day job) that most fires caused from woodstoves can be more or less attributed to operator error . . . i.e. someone tries to get a stubborn fire going with gasoline, someone fails to install the stove with proper clearances/floor protection, someone fails to burn seasoned wood-chimney is full of creosote from no cleaning-chimney fire results, someone loads the firebox to the gills-leaves the air flow wide open-then leaves the stove unmonitored, someone disposes of their ashes in a cardboard box, plastic bucket, etc. and places it in the garage, on the wood porch, deck, etc. Make no mistake . . . running a woodstove is different than running an oil furnace or even a pelletstove . . . it's definitely not a "set it and forget it" sort of operation where you just adjust the thermostat on the wall after having an oil delivery or loading up wood pellet hopper . . . but that said, it's not really that hard to learn how to run a stove safely either.
Any stove (cat or non cat) can safely give you an overnight fire . . . depending of course on the size of the firebox and other factors. Will you worry the first night you attempt an overnight burn? Yes. Will you sleep in the same room as the stove on the couch on that first night? Probably. Will you wake up every hour or so to check on the fire and the temp? Most likely . . . but by the end of a burning season when you've developed safe burning practices and have learned to trust yourself and the stove you will be able to leave the house or go to sleep at night and have few worries about the woodstove.
Vermont Castings: I would personally steer clear of this brand. Some folks here love 'em . . . and it seems as though an equal amount hate 'em. As for myself, not even figuring in the sometimes challenging aspect of running them . . . any brand that continually goes broke and then refuses to honor a past warranty is not a good investment in my opinion.
Brands: Take Slow's advice. Check out the Stove Make and Models section here . . . stove owners are pretty honest about stoves for the most part. I mean, I love my Jotul Oslo, but I'll be the first to tell you it's not without a fault or two. Also, if you don't get a good "vibe" from one stove dealer, try another . . . remember you're buying customer service, not just a woodstove. There are many very, good brands of stoves out there and perhaps a few that are not so good.
Professional Installation: I had to have my stove professionally installed to make the insurance company happy . . . even though installing these things is wicked easy. If you find a stove and dealer you like, but can't get them to do the install check around to see if any professional sweeps also install stoves. In some cases it may even be cheaper to have a professional sweep do the job rather than the dealership . . . and you make the insurance company happy.
Pagey: As usual, some great and informative posts.
Over-Firing: Any stove can over-fire . . . learning how to load the fire, when to load the fire, how to control the fire load and air flow will come to you in time with practice.
Why I went with a Non Cat: I did some research and went with a non-cat since I wanted a simpler system (I'm a pretty simple guy . . . one could say almost simple to the point of being a simpleton or an idiot), my friend had a VC with an early generation cat that gave him all kinds of issues and I didn't want to have to replace the cat every so often and I had heard that while well seasoned wood is important in any modern stove it is very, very important with the cats and I was a bit concerned with my wood supply in the first year. That was then . . . today, after having read a whole lot more and hearing personal stories from users of both types of stoves, I think I could safely say that while I still would have a preference for non-cats I would certainly not fear cat stoves and would in fact not rule out a cat stove just because it has a cat in it (unless of course the cat in the stove is a mountain lion . . . in which case I would want to have a chainsaw nearby so I could take care of it.
)Safety: The safety of the stove and house begins with you as the operator. I think I can safely say (in my present day job) that most fires caused from woodstoves can be more or less attributed to operator error . . . i.e. someone tries to get a stubborn fire going with gasoline, someone fails to install the stove with proper clearances/floor protection, someone fails to burn seasoned wood-chimney is full of creosote from no cleaning-chimney fire results, someone loads the firebox to the gills-leaves the air flow wide open-then leaves the stove unmonitored, someone disposes of their ashes in a cardboard box, plastic bucket, etc. and places it in the garage, on the wood porch, deck, etc. Make no mistake . . . running a woodstove is different than running an oil furnace or even a pelletstove . . . it's definitely not a "set it and forget it" sort of operation where you just adjust the thermostat on the wall after having an oil delivery or loading up wood pellet hopper . . . but that said, it's not really that hard to learn how to run a stove safely either.
Any stove (cat or non cat) can safely give you an overnight fire . . . depending of course on the size of the firebox and other factors. Will you worry the first night you attempt an overnight burn? Yes. Will you sleep in the same room as the stove on the couch on that first night? Probably. Will you wake up every hour or so to check on the fire and the temp? Most likely . . . but by the end of a burning season when you've developed safe burning practices and have learned to trust yourself and the stove you will be able to leave the house or go to sleep at night and have few worries about the woodstove.
Thanks, guys you are correct there is no woodstock dealer in my area it was a hearthstone/Harmon. I have been doing some reading on the Pacific Energy T5 very nice stove no dealers in my area. Any problems with the T5??
Thnaks,
Thnaks,
jakehunter said:
From what I've read, I don't think you can go wrong with any of PE's products. Whether you choose from their plate steel or cast iron lineup, both seem to use PE's steel firebox construction, which seems to be one of the best on the market as far as quality and durability go. I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but PE seems to have a really rugged firebox design that is just hard to beat. I'm thinking they use the same design on most of their stoves. Again, others with more PE knowledge will know how many of their designs share the same firebox.
Thanks, the woodstock fireview stove is very nice but, it's only rated at 1600 SF. Is this the actual BTU or can it heat a 2000SF house?
I think that the SF rating is very conservative - basically I'm betting they want to be sure that nobody can come back and say it wouldn't meet that spec.
Compare BTU ratings on the EPA tests - note how stoves with lower BTU outputs (peak and/or sustained) are marketed as higher SF by other companies? Makes you wonder... there really isn't a standard conversion out there that I'm aware of.
I plan to heat well over 1600sf - will see how it goes Then again, my standard is 65* not 80* like some folks.
Compare BTU ratings on the EPA tests - note how stoves with lower BTU outputs (peak and/or sustained) are marketed as higher SF by other companies? Makes you wonder... there really isn't a standard conversion out there that I'm aware of.
I plan to heat well over 1600sf - will see how it goes
Then again, my standard is 65* not 80* like some folks.
Be careful with the SF ratings. They can get you into a lot of trouble if your goal is to heat the whole house with wood exclusively no matter what the weather is doing.
karl said:
I burn my cat stove on low most of the time not rarely. Once your house is up to temp you don't need the full or even half the BTU output of the stove. The low burn rate also works very well in the spring/fall shoulder seasons.
As far as the fire goes, I have plenty of secondary bursts going on, but not quite as extreme as a non cat.
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