Calling on Kuma Sequoia owners... (also BK Princess)

[Highbeam]

So I am not sure how you would calculate the superior efficiency. Princess LHV is 88% and HHV is 81% versus Sequoia LHV 91% and HHV 84%. Additionally Sequoia has a bigger fire box and can put about twice as much heat at full blaze than the Princess. The main advantage of the Princess over Sequoia is the ability to keep the low burn going longer but for a large home, that really doesn't matter unless you are going to choke the stove down while you are out of the house working and then turning it up when you get home. The problem with that is the fact that in 8 hours the house gets to be pretty darn cold and takes a couple hours to heat up which is a drag.

Okay I did some reading. The biggest initial drag for the Kuma is the goofy 8" flue requirement, this isn't 1973, please use standard 6" flues. The second biggest drag is the unavailability of a low burn rate. I realize that some users like BBVD switch to a central furnace when temps climb up out of the 30s but many of us don't. I burn when it is 60 degrees out and really really use the heck out of the low burn rate. In fact, once you learn to KEEP your house warm you really don't need much other than the low burn rate with a normal sized house in our climate.

Let's just assume the princess and kuma have almost the same efficiency and firebox size.

The princes insert's available burn rates result in a burn time range between 27 and 9 hours, the kuma burn rates allow for no more than 12 hours of burn time. In other words the kuma is a heating monster whether you like it or not! Almost the entire range of princess outputs is lower than the Kuma.

The non-cats of this size have available burn times between 12 and 3 hours but with much lower efficiency so they don't deliver as much heat as the kuma. So what I think we have here with the Kuma is a very efficient, high output only, stove. It's like a non-cat without the inefficiency. Not a bad deal for someone heating a large home part time that already has a goofy 8" flue.

 

[Highbeam]

I was reading the 2016 EPA certified wood heaters list and see a Princess 35. New model?

 

[JohnDeer]

Akk!! Major bad discovery. I severely need help. Two weeks into this research project and just 2 hours ago, thanks to all of you, I was sold on the Sequoia. Then the local chimney sweep in my small town showed up to take a look at the situation. The steel damper and mortar ledge completely blocks any view of seeing up my masonry chimney, and the outside height plus 12/12 roof pitch combined with snow kept me from seeing down from the top end.

Running a fiber optic scope up past the steel damper shows a 6x10 oval clay tile liner. Not what I was expecting. I have a message in to Jason at Kuma but I think I am dead in the water concerning the Sequoia, which has an 8" round exit.

Does anyone know whether round-to-oval flex liner adapters exist? I don't know if 6x10 oval has the cross section equivalent to 8" round.

Insert groaning and bad language here.

The BK Princess is a very fine stove, but maybe a little like taking a 20 gauge goose hunting relative to my ft/2 and ft/3 equivalents.

Any other large catalytic inserts you fellas favor that might work with a 6" outlet?

The Osburn 2400 has a 3.0 ft3 firebox, rated to 2,700 ft2, but is noncat. I really don't want to "back up" that far in my newly developed conviction. Pull me out of my shock and depression if you have any ideas. Have to say that the natural convection of the Sequoia was a big selling item to me for times that we lose power.

Thanks everyone.

 

[JohnDeer]

I was reading the 2016 EPA certified wood heaters list and see a Princess 35. New model?

BKVP is this possible? A new Princess 35 INSERT...?

 

[jetsam]

Akk!! Major bad discovery. I severely need help. Two weeks into this research project and just 2 hours ago, thanks to all of you, I was sold on the Sequoia. Then the local chimney sweep in my small town showed up to take a look at the situation. The steel damper and mortar ledge completely blocks any view of seeing up my masonry chimney, and the outside height plus 12/12 roof pitch combined with snow kept me from seeing down from the top end.

Running a fiber optic scope up past the steel damper shows a 6x10 oval clay tile liner. Not what I was expecting. I have a message in to Jason at Kuma but I think I am dead in the water concerning the Sequoia, which has an 8" round exit.

Does anyone know whether round-to-oval flex liner adapters exist? I don't know if 6x10 oval has the cross section equivalent to 8" round.

Insert groaning and bad language here.

The BK Princess is a very fine stove, but maybe a little like taking a 20 gauge goose hunting relative to my ft/2 and ft/3 equivalents.

Any other large catalytic inserts you fellas favor that might work with a 6" outlet?

The Osburn 2400 has a 3.0 ft3 firebox, rated to 2,700 ft2, but is noncat. I really don't want to "back up" that far in my newly developed conviction. Pull me out of my shock and depression if you have any ideas. Have to say that the natural convection of the Sequoia was a big selling item to me for times that we lose power.

Thanks everyone.

I'm no expert, but there exist ovalized steel liners, and people do break out clay liners to get steel liners in.

 

[begreen]

heavy hammer measured the Sequoia at 3.0. That's probably not including the spaces next to the shield, which would be hard to fully utilize.

Usable space verified by jason @ Kuma.

 

[Highbeam]

I'm no expert, but there exist ovalized steel liners, and people do break out clay liners to get steel liners in.

There you go. Break out the silly clay liners. You aren't using them anyways if you are choosing an insulated liner. Another option, what I did, was to completely remove the stupid masonry chimney and fireplace and replace with a freestanding stove and class A chimney superior in many ways including earthquake resistance. Cheap too! Then you can get a more suitable, larger, stove that doesn't need power.

 

[BKVP]

I was reading the 2016 EPA certified wood heaters list and see a Princess 35. New model?

Stop Reading so much!!

 

[jetsam]

Or just knock down the old house and build a new, tight one around a huge central masonry heater!

Now we're really getting into stuff that can help the OP keep his house warm.

 

[jetsam]

Stop Reading so much!!

My wife is going to kill both of us. Me first, so look out when I stop posting here.

 

[BKVP]

Or just knock down the old house and build a new, tight one around a huge central masonry heater!

Now we're really getting into stuff that can help the OP keep his house warm.

And spend his money!!

 

[BKVP]

Akk!! Major bad discovery. I severely need help. Two weeks into this research project and just 2 hours ago, thanks to all of you, I was sold on the Sequoia. Then the local chimney sweep in my small town showed up to take a look at the situation. The steel damper and mortar ledge completely blocks any view of seeing up my masonry chimney, and the outside height plus 12/12 roof pitch combined with snow kept me from seeing down from the top end.

Running a fiber optic scope up past the steel damper shows a 6x10 oval clay tile liner. Not what I was expecting. I have a message in to Jason at Kuma but I think I am dead in the water concerning the Sequoia, which has an 8" round exit.

Does anyone know whether round-to-oval flex liner adapters exist? I don't know if 6x10 oval has the cross section equivalent to 8" round.

Insert groaning and bad language here.

The BK Princess is a very fine stove, but maybe a little like taking a 20 gauge goose hunting relative to my ft/2 and ft/3 equivalents.

Any other large catalytic inserts you fellas favor that might work with a 6" outlet?

The Osburn 2400 has a 3.0 ft3 firebox, rated to 2,700 ft2, but is noncat. I really don't want to "back up" that far in my newly developed conviction. Pull me out of my shock and depression if you have any ideas. Have to say that the natural convection of the Sequoia was a big selling item to me for times that we lose power.

Thanks everyone.

I've killed hundreds of geese with a 20 gauge! Take only frontal head shots and get real, real close in the decoy spread. One last tip, take some old guys with you...the young guns with their Mossberg Ultra Mags will ring your bell!

 

[Woody Stover]

don't know if 6x10 oval has the cross section equivalent to 8" round.

8" round is 50 sq.in. Might be pretty close. And you have a tall chimney, right? Interior chimney? Running the stove through the clay, might be a pain to clean compared to a round liner.

 

[Highbeam]

8" round is 50 sq.in. Might be pretty close. And you have a tall chimney, right? Interior chimney? Running the stove through the clay, might be a pain to clean compared to a round liner.

Would you suggest that he utilize the clay liner? A slammer install? Or is there another way to vent an insert into the clay tiles?

 

[begreen]

I was reading the 2016 EPA certified wood heaters list and see a Princess 35. New model?

It was listed as the Princess 35 in Jan 2015 too. The PEJ-1002 shows in 2014 with slightly higher emissions.

 

[Highbeam]

It was listed as the Princess 35 in Jan 2015 too. The PEJ-1002 was the earlier version with slightly higher emissions.

Both are listed. They may or may not be the same stove. Different btu rates too.

 

[begreen]

Yes, you're right. Only the PEJ-1002 is listed in 2014 with different specs again:

Blaze King Industries, Inc. Blaze King, Princess Catalytic PEJ-1002 ... 3.7 ... 8400-35400

In Jan 2015 it's listed as the PEJ-1006 with 2.4G/Hr. and 12000-35600 output btu/hr.
and Blaze King Industries, Inc. ... Princess 35 PE35 ... 2.1 ... 9200-29600

 

[BKVP]

Yes, you're right. Only the PEJ-1002 is listed in 2014 with different specs again:

Blaze King Industries, Inc. Blaze King, Princess Catalytic PEJ-1002 ... 3.7 ... 8400-35400

In Jan 2015 it's listed as the PEJ-1006 with 2.4G/Hr. and 12000-35600 output btu/hr.
and Blaze King Industries, Inc. ... Princess 35 PE35 ... 2.1 ... 9200-29600

You guys have better things to work on!

 

[begreen]

Nah, we love a good mystery.

 

[JohnDeer]

You guys have better things to work on!

Look. This is serious, BKVP. You have 30 days to come up with a 3.5 ft3 Princess model. You need to make this right. Call it the Fat Princess model.

Grins.

 

[JohnDeer]

Having had a number of conversations with Jason over at Kuma, I simply cannot sing their praises high enough. I haven't made my mind up yet concerning the right product for my particular need, but for those of you reading this thread in the months or years to come there is a pretty good chance you haven't turned over as many rocks and asked as many questions as I have to this point. And if you haven't figured it out yet by reading this thread, the members of hearth.com are simply indispensable for helping sort out stove facts and applications. As far as Kuma stoves go, I have rarely found more ethical, concerned or winsome people than the family and employees that build Kuma stoves. Depending on your technical requirements and aesthetic tastes you will be doing yourself a disservice not to consider this company's products. I own a business and rarely run into fellow business owners who run their company like these folks. Made in Idaho. Sandwiched between the Henry's Fork of the Snake River and the Grand Tetons there is a wood stove builder who cares deeply about the customer's experience.

 

[lsucet]

Having had a number of conversations with Jason over at Kuma, I simply cannot sing their praises high enough. I haven't made my mind up yet concerning the right product for my particular need, but for those of you reading this thread in the months or years to come there is a pretty good chance you haven't turned over as many rocks and asked as many questions as I have to this point. And if you haven't figured it out yet by reading this thread, the members of hearth.com are simply indispensable for helping sort out stove facts and applications. As far as Kuma stoves go, I have rarely found more ethical, concerned or winsome people than the family and employees that build Kuma stoves. Depending on your technical requirements and aesthetic tastes you will be doing yourself a disservice not to consider this company's products. I own a business and rarely run into fellow business owners who run their company like these folks. Made in Idaho. Sandwiched between the Henry's Fork of the Snake River and the Grand Tetons there is a wood stove builder who cares deeply about the customer's experience.

The same can be said for BKVP from Blaze King, Mike from Englander. They, including after sales stay in contact thru this forums and help their customers and respond to any issues.

It is hard to find companies that have personel that are willing to offer that service and go the extra mile. From a sales point or not, it's a plus. In somehow we have customer service from these companies 24/7. That says a lot

 

[begreen]

The folks at Woodstock have a good customer service as well.

 

[begreen]

Akk!! Major bad discovery. I severely need help. Two weeks into this research project and just 2 hours ago, thanks to all of you, I was sold on the Sequoia. Then the local chimney sweep in my small town showed up to take a look at the situation. The steel damper and mortar ledge completely blocks any view of seeing up my masonry chimney, and the outside height plus 12/12 roof pitch combined with snow kept me from seeing down from the top end.

Running a fiber optic scope up past the steel damper shows a 6x10 oval clay tile liner. Not what I was expecting. I have a message in to Jason at Kuma but I think I am dead in the water concerning the Sequoia, which has an 8" round exit.

Does anyone know whether round-to-oval flex liner adapters exist? I don't know if 6x10 oval has the cross section equivalent to 8" round.

Insert groaning and bad language here.

The BK Princess is a very fine stove, but maybe a little like taking a 20 gauge goose hunting relative to my ft/2 and ft/3 equivalents.

Any other large catalytic inserts you fellas favor that might work with a 6" outlet?

The Osburn 2400 has a 3.0 ft3 firebox, rated to 2,700 ft2, but is noncat. I really don't want to "back up" that far in my newly developed conviction. Pull me out of my shock and depression if you have any ideas. Have to say that the natural convection of the Sequoia was a big selling item to me for times that we lose power.

Thanks everyone.

6x10 oval is a very small flue size for a large fireplace. I come up with that being ~ 42 sq in. which would be for a tiny fireplace opening of 420 sq in. Doesn't sound right. Hope they measured correctly. Oval is also odd. 8x12 OD would be closer to a more common size, and area of ~ 67 sq in.

 

[jetsam]

Look. This is serious, BKVP. You have 30 days to come up with a 3.5 ft3 Princess model. You need to make this right. Call it the Fat Princess model.

Grins.

I want a 150 CF AutoKing insert, where you break out the back of the chimney to install the log loader.