Calling on Kuma Sequoia owners... (also BK Princess)

[JohnDeer]

I've figured out the way to load the stove while utilizing the side openings around the cat, not that big of a deal, and with the front I leave it open for air flow and window clarity.

You actually get window clarity with a cat stove? I thought this was hard to achieve, or consistently achieve.

 

[BigBadVoodooDaddy]

Very, very useful BBVD.

St. Helens, Oregon, is my locale, for any future stove shoppers who may be interested in climate-matching.

I have 22 acres with large outbuildings, so can stack wood wide, deep and under cover. Also have teenagers (for a few years) with strong backs.

Will no longer worry about stove size (Sequoia) at this point.

The 10-hour (real world) burn time of the Sequoia vs the roughly double burn time for the Blaze King Princess is interesting. The difference is not entirely academic, but the Princess' literature clearly aims that stove at homes up to 2,000 square feet--clearly smaller than the Sequoia.

You say that if I burn it nice and hot (800-1000 degrees) I'll barely have any ashes left. That's good. But also wondering if I burn hot like this whether the heat production will overheat the family room in which the insert will be placed.

Can you clarify, do you have the Sequoia insert, or the freestanding model?

Anyone claiming a 20+ hour burn time for a stove is talking about fully choked down and barely lit mode. What I am talking about is 10 hours of full on HEATING THE WHOLE HOUSE burn time or the actual burn time to do something useful and not keeping flames lit in the stove.

 

[kuma.jason]

Thanks, Jason. And thanks for your patience with my phone calls and emails over the past 2 weeks.

No worries. I'm looking over your email now. Also, running some other numbers between the Sequoia and the Princess. I'm hoping to get a little better understanding of how Blaze King determines the BTU input listed on their website. If @BKVP is around maybe he can give some direct insight. BTU's per pound maybe?

Jason

 

[begreen]

You actually get window clarity with a cat stove? I thought this was hard to achieve, or consistently achieve.

Not always. It depends on how the stove is run. If on a low setting the glass can darken up, but if the stove is run at a higher heat output then the creosote on the glass is burned off. This is common in a larger home where the stove needs to put out consistent high heat.

 

[BigBadVoodooDaddy]

Do most people install a block-out plate at the bottom end of the masonry chimney in the vicinity of the former damper, or just a cap at the top?

I've capped the top, the stove takes in the air from the back so you want some air coming in. If you look at one of my posts I hooked up a flex hose to make it draw ambient air from the room a bit more.

Yes, if you keep the front of the window clear of obstructions you can see the fire just fine in the stove. It's all about air flow and the "window wash" feature of the stove does a good job if you load the wood correctly.

As I said, there are intricacies to every single stove and you'll spend time playing with it for the first couple of months but after that you'll do great.

Oh, also make sure you get the digital remote cat temp sensor instead of the standard one that comes with the stove.

 

[BKVP]

No worries. I'm looking over your email now. Also, running some other numbers between the Sequoia and the Princess. I'm hoping to get a little better understanding of how Blaze King determines the BTU input listed on their website. If @BKVP is around maybe he can give some direct insight. BTU's per pound maybe?

Jason

Precisely Jason. Looking the carrying capacity of weight of fuel based on a specified m.c., equals gross input. That value multiplied by the HHV efficiency. Then divide that by both low burn times and high burn times equals Btu's over the consumer selected burn rate.

 

[rwhite]

I'm guessing if both stoves were choked down the advantage for the princess is the self adjusting thermostat which probably allows it to choke down further but open when needed to keep cat active. I'm guessing that the kuma is set where it will only choke down so far to keep the cat active. All that said with 3000 sqft you may not be able to turn a BK down and still get enough heat, so if your running it on a 10-12 hour reload then you've gained nothing over the KUMA. There is probably an advantage to the BK in shoulder season? These are just guesses on part. I'm new to the cat world and still learning how the different manufactures operate.

 

[kuma.jason]

Thanks Chris! Can you share what M.C. you spec? And, are you using +/- 8500 btu/lb?

 

[BKVP]

Thanks Chris! Can you share what M.C. you spec? And, are you using +/- 8500 btu/lb?

8,600/lb 18% m.c.

 

[BKVP]

And by the way, Merry Christmas to you, Dad and mom.

 

[kuma.jason]

And by the way, Merry Christmas to you, Dad and mom.

Thanks, and same to you.

Can you tell us how you list firebox ft3? We list what's reported in the EPA data.

 

[Highbeam]

I'm guessing if both stoves were choked down the advantage for the princess is the self adjusting thermostat which probably allows it to choke down further but open when needed to keep cat active. I'm guessing that the kuma is set where it will only choke down so far to keep the cat active. All that said with 3000 sqft you may not be able to turn a BK down and still get enough heat, so if your running it on a 10-12 hour reload then you've gained nothing over the KUMA. There is probably an advantage to the BK in shoulder season? These are just guesses on part. I'm new to the cat world and still learning how the different manufactures operate.

When running the BKs at high settings you still have the superior efficiency. True, the stoves offer a low burnrate unmatched by anything else in the market but they are no slouches at higher outputs. That wide range of available output, thermostatic regulation, and superior efficiency are BK exclusives.

 

[BKVP]

We use the EPA (test report) calculated firebox size.

 

[begreen]

BKVP how does the EPA (test report) firebox size get calculated?

 

[BigBadVoodooDaddy]

When running the BKs at high settings you still have the superior efficiency. True, the stoves offer a low burnrate unmatched by anything else in the market but they are no slouches at higher outputs. That wide range of available output, thermostatic regulation, and superior efficiency are BK exclusives.

So I am not sure how you would calculate the superior efficiency. Princess LHV is 88% and HHV is 81% versus Sequoia LHV 91% and HHV 84%. Additionally Sequoia has a bigger fire box and can put about twice as much heat at full blaze than the Princess. The main advantage of the Princess over Sequoia is the ability to keep the low burn going longer but for a large home, that really doesn't matter unless you are going to choke the stove down while you are out of the house working and then turning it up when you get home. The problem with that is the fact that in 8 hours the house gets to be pretty darn cold and takes a couple hours to heat up which is a drag.

 

[mellow]

I can for sure say the SC25 is too small for that amount of area, if you want to heat a section of that big house then yea it will work great. To heat that size house you will have to be putting out some heat, hope you can figure out another way to spread that as HVAC returns only do so much, especially if they are not insulated.

 

[begreen]

BKVP how does the EPA (test report) firebox size get calculated?

Edit: Found it:
3.5 Height means the vertical distance extending above the loading door, if fuel could reasonably occupy that space, but not more than 2 inches above the top (peak height) of the loading door, to the floor of the firebox (i.e., below a permanent grate) if the grate allows a 1-inch diameter piece of wood to pass through the grate, or, if not, to the top of the grate. Firebox height is not necessarily uniform but must account for variations caused by internal baffles, air channels, or other permanent obstructions.
3.6 Length means the longest horizontal fire chamber dimension that is parallel to a wall of the chamber.

 

[Highbeam]

So I am not sure how you would calculate the superior efficiency. Princess LHV is 88% and HHV is 81% versus Sequoia LHV 91% and HHV 84%. Additionally Sequoia has a bigger fire box and can put about twice as much heat at full blaze than the Princess. The main advantage of the Princess over Sequoia is the ability to keep the low burn going longer but for a large home, that really doesn't matter unless you are going to choke the stove down while you are out of the house working and then turning it up when you get home. The problem with that is the fact that in 8 hours the house gets to be pretty darn cold and takes a couple hours to heat up which is a drag.

Wow, congratulations Kuma. I didn't realize that they achieved that high rating. I will slink away now and read up on the Kuma line. Thanks!

 

[rwhite]

So I am not sure how you would calculate the superior efficiency. Princess LHV is 88% and HHV is 81% versus Sequoia LHV 91% and HHV 84%. Additionally Sequoia has a bigger fire box and can put about twice as much heat at full blaze than the Princess. The main advantage of the Princess over Sequoia is the ability to keep the low burn going longer but for a large home, that really doesn't matter unless you are going to choke the stove down while you are out of the house working and then turning it up when you get home. The problem with that is the fact that in 8 hours the house gets to be pretty darn cold and takes a couple hours to heat up which is a drag.

I guess that is what I was getting at. Do you see the inequalities diminish as both stoves get turned up. I have know idea. Or even when the stoves are turned down can you load the kuma with less wood (although you may have to load more often) and get the same burn rate lb for lb? Don't get me wrong, I'm a week into using the princess and love it. I just don't have enough info on other stoves to say it's the best thing since a pocket.

 

[BigBadVoodooDaddy]

Wow, congratulations Kuma. I didn't realize that they achieved that high rating. I will slink away now and read up on the Kuma line. Thanks!

I spent 6 months researching this thing in and out... all the competition and every other stove that people put up. Read up my initial two posts I put in about the stove. I couldn't find anything that comes close. Pound for pound Kuma kicks butt and there isn't anything that comes close to it!

 

[BKVP]

So I am not sure how you would calculate the superior efficiency. Princess LHV is 88% and HHV is 81% versus Sequoia LHV 91% and HHV 84%. Additionally Sequoia has a bigger fire box and can put about twice as much heat at full blaze than the Princess. The main advantage of the Princess over Sequoia is the ability to keep the low burn going longer but for a large home, that really doesn't matter unless you are going to choke the stove down while you are out of the house working and then turning it up when you get home. The problem with that is the fact that in 8 hours the house gets to be pretty darn cold and takes a couple hours to heat up which is a drag.

Compare it more to a King model...

 

[BKVP]

BKVP how does the EPA (test report) firebox size get calculated?

The EPA certified labs calculate the firebox size. The size of the firebox is used in the emissions calculations and therefore is critical.

 

[lsucet]

that really doesn't matter unless you are going to choke the stove down while you are out of the house working and then turning it up when you get home. The problem with that is the fact that in 8 hours the house gets to be pretty darn cold and takes a couple hours to heat up which is a drag.

Hi, i don't think that is an accurate statement. looks the situation that i have and before anything i have to tell you that my princess is freestanding not an insert. I am at the ranch just on weekends but lately for the last a few weeks temps being dropping and the lower temp i saw on multiple weather stations i have is 11df. because of that i get off from work and make a trip over there every day, 35 minutes trip one way and refilled the stove, char the wood etc,etc,etc. then i comeback into town and repeat the same next day. i am monitoring the lowest temp in different rooms with the weather stations around the house. house is approximately a little over 2300sf. I am on a 24hrs schedule and the lowest temp are one back room and upstairs between 63 and 66df. Stove room,kitchen,and three more bedroom between 69 and 76df. and other parts of the house that i am not monitoring but it feels comfortable.

The house was a small modular house easy 60 or more years old with addictions with some kind of weird floor plan. also additions done back in the days with horrible insulation.
For the last three years i have some remodeling done and i still working on it finding some details here and there with a thermal image camera.
yes i run it low, that is the only way of getting long burn time but the house is staying at reasonable temperature thanks to the way the stove works and the control over it including with softwood.

I can tell you anything about your stove cause i not even seeing one of those but i can tell you that blaze king stoves till today they are all that. the reason i am running it including when i am not there is to see wood consumption, heat retention, etc etc etc, cause one day i am planning to live over there. i am sorry for disagree with your statement bu it is not accurate.

 

[BigBadVoodooDaddy]

The EPA certified labs calculate the firebox size. The size of the firebox is used in the emissions calculations and therefore is critical.

I would agree in the free standing context, in both my and John Deere case we're talking inserts so princess is the closest we can match

 

[BigBadVoodooDaddy]

Hi, i don't think that is an accurate statement. looks the situation that i have and before anything i have to tell you that my princess is freestanding not an insert. I am at the ranch just on weekends but lately for the last a few weeks temps being dropping and the lower temp i saw on multiple weather stations i have is 11df. because of that i get off from work and make a trip over there every day, 35 minutes trip one way and refilled the stove, char the wood etc,etc,etc. then i comeback into town and repeat the same next day. i am monitoring the lowest temp in different rooms with the weather stations around the house. house is approximately a little over 2300sf. I am on a 24hrs schedule and the lowest temp are one back room and upstairs between 63 and 66df. Stove room,kitchen,and three more bedroom between 69 and 76df. and other parts of the house that i am not monitoring but it feels comfortable.

The house was a small modular house easy 60 or more years old with addictions with some kind of weird floor plan. also additions done back in the days with horrible insulation.
For the last three years i have some remodeling done and i still working on it finding some details here and there with a thermal image camera.
yes i run it low, that is the only way of getting long burn time but the house is staying at reasonable temperature thanks to the way the stove works and the control over it including with softwood.

I can tell you anything about your stove cause i not even seeing one of those but i can tell you that blaze king stoves till today they are all that. the reason i am running it including when i am not there is to see wood consumption, heat retention, etc etc etc, cause one day i am planning to live over there. i am sorry for disagree with your statement bu it is not accurate.

I would say the comparison is not really equal. He is going with the insert option which limits the radiant heat benefit severely. In the insert mode the convection heat capability is paramount.