Burning issues burning up w/hearth.com users

[Harley]

I think A-Cfrom NY is going into overload at this point. S/He seems to be about the wackiest one there.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Unbelievable stuff. Its a real soap box for the uninformed over there! I'm not knocking clean air, but they have to get the all the facts right and clean up the air.

LMAO "Have you lived in India??? I have. They're burning cowchit. That is the biofuel that is being described. And they are poor beyond your belief. If you want to make a difference, come up with a way to burn dung cheaply and cleanly. That might actually make a difference." BeGreen

http://burningissues.org/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=30

They did seem to have a problem with discerning one biofuel from another. So when they started quoting and India study against the US environment, I had to speak up. If one of these burning issues folk spent a day in Delhi in the winter, they would have had a seizure. Their uncomfortable zone starts where our red alert zone ends. Their dangerous zone is beyond most American's comprehension. We have no equivalent.

i did a tour in korea whil i was in the army , they heat with what they call "andol" i think i spelled right but not sure, anyway its like a cake of some sort of charcoal or soft coal with a bunch of holes through it , about 8 to 9 inch round and about 6 inches thick , they burn it in a "pot belly" type stove built for the purpose, burns slow but hot kinda from the inside out, gawd does it ever stink! you can smell it for miles. we were barracked all the way across the airfield from "the ville" and you could smell it at night. im sure the indians (from india) have similar although probably more pungant, issues. i noticed they have no data listed on burning coal (probably because the sierra club prefers coal and oil to wood due to the fact they will have 1 less tree per woodburner to hug.
i looked over their data, its a crock! most of it is outdated, and importantly it does not deal with cloroflourocarbons, "smog" from burning refined fossil fuels (gasoline, diesel, etc. i got a kick out of their resident "engineer" who claims he is not receiving any funding from this group, his analogy about the person with the glassed in family room with the redwood jacuzzi and the woodstove seemed more upset with the loss of the redwood tree for the hot tub than he was about the "gas guzzling SUV" that the homeowner drove home. then the guy in charge "god" on the site who brags about riding his bike 2 miles to work every day (probably uphill both ways) talking about "electric cars" hoping they will become the norm, idiot evidently hasnt heard of fuel cell cars that exhaust water and apparantly nothing else. as for the "study" that epa apparantly did , what was the "control" in the experiment? was this long term controlled labwork? or was it just checking on joe six packs cat stove chimney with no regard on how, or whether, he maintained it? guy done pissed me off. i will be doing some poking around myself and while it may not be immediate, i will have a long drawn out post for him (which will likely be censored, but what the hell) if he doesnt allow it i'll just have to start a blog and provide a way around him.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Elk brings up some really good points. If we go in like wood commandos, we will be ignored and eventually banned and they will regroup better protected against attacks to their podium. Better to politely tear apart the false statements, give a little on the small points and then impress them that there are wood burners that like a clean planet as much as they do, maybe more. I am not too worried about the global warming angle. We have a lot of facts on our side and wood burning is carbon neutral, which can't be said about the fossil fuel alternatives.

People like these do do care for facts. The care about what effects them. The will cry global warming from wood burning( load of crap).They only worried about the world the can see. The need to come to Pa a take a York county Pa and take the tour. 1 stop ppl coal burning electric pant Brunners Island, Next we Waste management's incinerator. and for final stop 3 mile island nuke plant (production is very low emision but the spent stuff is nasty).plus all the factory and such.


These people could care less about the the really nasty stuff but lord forbid the get a whiff of my stove a I reload.There so worried about air quailty I wonder how many of them have Suvs.

good point hawkeye,
the reason hey turn away from the industrial manufacture of electricity is that they do not want to give it up, but your woodstove does them no direct benefit, so they are willing to take that from you , and yes he likely has an escalade, but he rides his bike to work, probably drives to the bar (and home) each night though

 

[wg_bent]

o.k. Elk the post is finally seeing some replies, but still no reasonable answers. More spouting absolutes. Like no exposure to smoke is safe. I'll tell you guys... I'm sure glad its raining today. You know there's no safe amount of exposure to the sun either. And this CRT I'm looking at now... Crap I think I just felt cell mutate. My cell phone is going in the trash, I wonder about my ipod, then there's the PCB's in the Hudson that they're cleaning up (ever wonder where they put them? or how much energy it would take to incinerate 500,000 cu yards of mud) I lived in Endicott for years... That place is a super fund site for like 10 reasons, now it' leaching into the Susquehanna after the floods last year... or so they suspect... The particle board in homes, the pressure treating in decking (I make the kids levitate when they go out on it) and on and on and on.


I agree we need to work to improve things, but saying "no exposure" and All is nuts.

 

[elkimmeg]

Note they wre fast to point out an OWB caused a house fire some how 9 dead people is only equal they ignored the over taxed grid part of the statement did not address brown outs or the great NY black out. Learning to them is a one way street we tell you what to learn we only want to feed you our views and adgenda. We do not want to learn oposing views doing that becomes Techno can't deal with that bit its ok for us to use satistics
bodhi changed his god image to czar

 

[elkimmeg]

the guy opened another door the study he provides states that the used stoves were in unknown condition no records of chimneys haven been cleaned cat combustors cleaning or replacement information lacking and the study admits this, Occasions where routine mantance was done, the stoves preformed near original specs and some exceeded them
That' s why I'm here. I gald you pointed out that routine mantance is needed. I too support that. I'm here to help educate those owners to maintain their stoves to promote clean burning, just llike you suggested b introducing this study. We both agree the importance of a mantaince Program and I support you for bring it front center. I can help ,you to get the message out as to how to maintain stove mantance. The number one cause for degration is fly ash. Before the start of every burning season a through cleaning is requires. No different that auto mantance frequent oil changes and tunups I suupport you . After all we are working towards the same goals, cleaner air we breath. That is why I came here asking for support to remove smoking dragons of yesteryear to clean effecient a stove. It's comforting that we share common ground. I was begining to believe you were some off the wall fanatic. I mean Capatalizing shouting But Ifind you unbderstand the common premise of stove mantance promotes cleaner burning

The response from him should be priceless

 

[stoveguy2esw]

hmmm... lets see, click on a few links with me

link to CPSC about deaths caused by electric space heaters http://www.cpsc.gov/volstd/heater/heater.html

space heater caused fire here http://www.kxnet.com/getArticle.asp?s=rss&ArticleId=72577

carbon monoxide deaths, read top of page 5 http://www.cpsc.gov/LIBRARY/co03.pdf these are hard numbers "non fire related deaths"

this link shows that the required PPM "NOx" for electrical power generation plants in Ill. is about 75ppm, this companys intent is to keep this at 15ppm guess what the So2 (causes acid rain)is gonna be? (broken link removed to http://www.epa.state.il.us/air/permits/reliant.html)

how about the boston globe's report that the electrical companies are looking to use more oil and less gas to prevent brownouts and blackouts, at a cost of 50 more tons of particulate matter released , all to allow more people to use "clean" electric heat (broken link removed to http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/10/22/more_use_of_oil_eyed_for_power_plants/)

i could do this all night, one for the road If you've followed the issue, "you may have seen the list of fifty or so chemicals found in wood smoke. They all sound lethal, but it turns out that only a few are actually carcinogenic. Be aware, however, that the list is bogus because these are the chemicals that result from smoldering, not burning. "
this is a quote from this link (broken link removed to http://www.woodheat.org/environment/smoke.htm)

notice when you find this quote , the "list" link is from our old friends across the battleground

have fun reading, i'll do some more digging soon

 

[elkimmeg]

Mke use you military training know the enemy better than yourself. There are two ways to protect what we have (offense) disprove their BS (military terms on engagement)

Ok some had fun poking holes in their arguements even have them swaying to see what they missed in stove technology but this also could be a front.

There is another way non engagement build y up your defensive positions Align and present what we do in the best possible light. Get public oppinion supporting what we do. Do it now
and build upon. Alternative heating is looking mighty attractive as fosil fuel prices edge up oil today in my area $2.639 per gallon with predictions of $ 3.00 At
$3.00 that really hits home hard That lower cost Englander is looking mighty good.

Mike here is what you missed I forget the I we are using the Century that members donated the money to buy to attract the largest possible media coverage we can muster I mean a press release is being sent out to 20/20/ 60 minutes good morning America I have actually talked to Katie Couric. Ny times all major boston papers and tv news outlets promoting cleaner burning using bio logs swap out programs I am communocation with John kerry the coverage will be semnt to our govenor district senators and reps. That stove getting the exposure could have been an Englander Check out my last post concerning the Letter from John Kerry if you want proof of how far I am willing to push this. You know the next stove could be one of yours. Its not too late to get into this I would welcome you to actually assits me in getting it done Imagine if we susceed We need backup commitment to push forward and to prove this is not a one shot deal It could be your company front center. If this is pulled offf we all win including Englander. Pm me if this is to hot to answer on the forum