Burning issues burning up w/hearth.com users

[elkimmeg]

Asking them to support us will really draw the lines .7 gph is beyond their fanatical minds and thinking. We do not want to educate them too much
When one goes to battle one must know and understand one's enemy as well as one knows him/her selves. Think of it as a card game of rummy. If you are holding the ace of trump, one does not want to waste on duce. You want to hold it to draw out their highest trump card and if they have the Ace you want to minium its impact. Assume they feel they are in the right .Do not feed them too much, that can be used against us. I think we are dealing with some bright people, that after initial setbacks they will re group. Also they will find our forums and disect information here and use it against us. Twist it to support their views. I know i would and I'm not the brightest interlectual here . What we want to do is feed enough to cause them to self doubt. We want to direct them to thinking that you know responsible clean EPa burning is ok. The other approach is to let them wallowin the own superiority thinking and not chanllenge it and build our own defences. In other words monitor what going on but keep a low profile. My .02 but I like neanderthals

 

[keyman512us]

Green:

Elk brings up some really good points. If we go in like wood commandos, we will be ignored and eventually banned and they will regroup better protected against attacks to their podium. Better to politely tear apart the false statements, give a little on the small points and then impress them that there are wood burners that like a clean planet as much as they do, maybe more. I am not too worried about the global warming angle. We have a lot of facts on our side and wood burning is carbon neutral, which can’t be said about the fossil fuel alternatives.

I'm leaning more towards 'your side' on this...However, The "Whack job" hosting that site... unfortunately is the 'majority representation' of the 'American mentality'.

The bit about using electric vs. a wood stove thread? The advocation of "windmills" how much you wanna bet 'boadi' changes his/her' tune if someone proposed putting them in his/her backyard? Yeah 'boadi' is crying for the battle...but isn't willing to "fight the good fight"...instead of "boadi-the one eyed brown eye" going after woodburners why doesn't he/she advocate "everyone in earshot of G-D's voice...call up your congressman/senator and demand wind and solar power for all..." You ain't going to find that being advocated...the little communist host of that forum "has an agenda" and it isn't bringing alternative energy to the table...that host knows damn well to 'get as many shots in' before the "orginazation" takes em' off their soapbox.
"OHH Boadi...you advocate shutting down my stove and using an electric heater...but what about the trainloads of coal being shot into huge coal boilers to make electricity??...how is that better for the enviroment?"
Yeah I'd like to see the "solar and wind" farm to supply New England's heating needs built with her house in the center! Talk about a "pipe dream".

 

[restorer]

Well, I'm here to tell you if someone stuck a wind farm next to me, I would have a problem. Not with the environmental issues or the conservation, but the noise. Anyone remember the grim riper? Scares the heck out of me. That swoosh would twist me in a month. Wind farms need to be away from people, but there are places around the world. They have no people, because even the most foolish of us will not opt for the constant wind that exists there.

Green:

Elk brings up some really good points. If we go in like wood commandos, we will be ignored and eventually banned and they will regroup better protected against attacks to their podium. Better to politely tear apart the false statements, give a little on the small points and then impress them that there are wood burners that like a clean planet as much as they do, maybe more. I am not too worried about the global warming angle. We have a lot of facts on our side and wood burning is carbon neutral, which can’t be said about the fossil fuel alternatives.

I'm leaning more towards 'your side' on this...However, The "Whack job" hosting that site... unfortunately is the 'majority representation' of the 'American mentality'.

The bit about using electric vs. a wood stove thread? The advocation of "windmills" how much you wanna bet 'boadi' changes his/her' tune if someone proposed putting them in his/her backyard? Yeah 'boadi' is crying for the battle...but isn't willing to "fight the good fight"...instead of "boadi-the one eyed brown eye" going after woodburners why doesn't he/she advocate "everyone in earshot of G-D's voice...call up your congressman/senator and demand wind and solar power for all..." You ain't going to find that being advocated...the little communist host of that forum "has an agenda" and it isn't bringing alternative energy to the table...that host knows damn well to 'get as many shots in' before the "orginazation" takes em' off their soapbox.
"OHH Boadi...you advocate shutting down my stove and using an electric heater...but what about the trainloads of coal being shot into huge coal boilers to make electricity??...how is that better for the enviroment?"
Yeah I'd like to see the "solar and wind" farm to supply New England's heating needs built with her house in the center! Talk about a "pipe dream".

 

[Jay Shank]

Elk brings up some really good points. If we go in like wood commandos, we will be ignored and eventually banned and they will regroup better protected against attacks to their podium. Better to politely tear apart the false statements, give a little on the small points and then impress them that there are wood burners that like a clean planet as much as they do, maybe more. I am not too worried about the global warming angle. We have a lot of facts on our side and wood burning is carbon neutral, which can't be said about the fossil fuel alternatives.

People like these do do care for facts. The care about what effects them. The will cry global warming from wood burning( load of crap).They only worried about the world the can see. The need to come to Pa a take a York county Pa and take the tour. 1 stop ppl coal burning electric pant Brunners Island, Next we Waste management's incinerator. and for final stop 3 mile island nuke plant (production is very low emision but the spent stuff is nasty).plus all the factory and such.


These people could care less about the the really nasty stuff but lord forbid the get a whiff of my stove a I reload.There so worried about air quailty I wonder how many of them have Suvs.

 

[begreen]

There is definitely selective culling of posts occurring on the site. I noticed my poll on SUV ownership disappeared today. A little too close to home perhaps?

 

[restorer]

Hawkeye,
Isn't York the home of the twenty-four hour glowing pellet? That lasts for weeks, or is it months? :roll: They are safe in South Dakota, San Diego and unknown parts of rural New York. Hmmmm, how many mental institutions in UpState NY?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

I just checked out that site...
54 users...moderator is from South Dakota? Sounds like he has a problem (neighbor) and wants to get a little "soap box squad" going. Glad he (or she) don't live here.

I did find something disturbing though:

wow we agree on something. Get those OWB's banned. there terrible. lucky for most there rare.

Poster was "MSG" over there...I sure hope it wasn't our MSG...I give him more credit than that.

While a few OWB owners are giving "all" a bad rap...the same can be said "stove" owners too... regardless of whether or not they have EPA cert. models...it isn't what you got...but how you use it.

Regardless of how people feel towards OWB's (one way or the other)...if they do get "outlawed" it sets a dangerous precedence...keep that in mind folks when you share your feelings on OWB's.

Today it's OWB's...tommorow? Who knows. But that site goes to show they aren't afraid to 'start small'...It makes me laugh though...there are people out there that want to go after stoves too!

And yes, in case you are wondering, I have a wood fired boiler, it is outside...that doesn't make it an OWB though...because I guarantee 9 out of 10 "stoves" make more smoke and soot than I do!
Just like guns...OWB's aren't the problem...it's whose hands they fall into.

i will own up to that comment. Its no seceret that im not a fan of OWB's. I dont think they have any place (yet) in a suburban setting. I could be wrong, but its my opinion, and im realy glad my nighbor doenst use one to heat even though there more then 1/4 mile away. Thursday i will see if any of the technology has changed.

 

[keyman512us]

There is definitely selective culling of posts occurring on the site. I noticed my poll on SUV ownership disappeared today. A little too close to home perhaps?

YA THINK! Green?

Churning-issues isn't a forum...it's a "cheerleaders homepage"....I wouldn't waste the time or effort...the host isn't interested in opinions...just wants an 'audience'.

People like that over there scare me...not because of their views...just because the thought "they may breed"...and vote!

 

[Jay Shank]

Hawkeye,
Isn't York the home of the twenty-four hour glowing pellet? That lasts for weeks, or is it months? :roll: They are safe in South Dakota, San Diego and unknown parts of rural New York. Hmmmm, how many mental institutions in UpState NY?

Yes it is. But everyone know 3 mile island.But there are also 2 other nukes with in a 4 hour drive. I have some very nice picture of the cooling tower tower of 3 mile island. I see it as I water ski past inthe summer and glaze on it red blinking lights while I enjoy a beer around my fire pit at my island get a way

Jay

 

[Jay Shank]

Warren looks good if you want to run with it or I will but I have a lot going on. Talked to Katie Couric today she thinks what we are doing with the stove donor swaping imake great press
she will let me know if they are interested. Amazing they got her on the phone (I told a white lie to get connected but it worked)

explain..please..

 

[restorer]

Warren looks good if you want to run with it or I will but I have a lot going on. Talked to Katie Couric today she thinks what we are doing with the stove donor swaping imake great press
she will let me know if they are interested. Amazing they got her on the phone (I told a white lie to get connected but it worked)

explain..please..

See his new thread. Pretty amazing.

 

[restorer]

Warren,
Just read the Webmaster/god's response to your post. Scary! Will you paste and copy to the forum, my stealth mode won't work with my limited skills? What a head case. Fellow forum members, you be the judges.

 

[wg_bent]

Warren,
Just read the Webmaster/god's response to your post. Scary! Will you paste and copy to the forum, my stealth mode won't work with my limited skills? What a head case. Fellow forum members, you be the judges.

Odd, I don't see any reply there from him. Only from bodhi. The title is Can you help

 

[restorer]

Warren,
Just read the Webmaster/god's response to your post. Scary! Will you paste and copy to the forum, my stealth mode won't work with my limited skills? What a head case. Fellow forum members, you be the judges.

Odd, I don't see any reply there from him. Only from bodhi. The title is Can you help

He's the site owner. Note the little "g" in my response. That's who threatened me and banned me. His response is weird.

 

[wg_bent]

Warren,
Just read the Webmaster/god's response to your post. Scary! Will you paste and copy to the forum, my stealth mode won't work with my limited skills? What a head case. Fellow forum members, you be the judges.

Odd, I don't see any reply there from him. Only from bodhi. The title is Can you help

He's the site owner. Note the little "g" in my response. That's who threatened me and banned me. His response is weird.

Sorry, I didn't notice he was the moderator...What the heck is he talking about?

 

[begreen]

do we know bodhi/god is a man?

 

[DriftWood]

Bodhi is attained only by the accomplishment of the Paramitas (perfections), when the Four Noble Truths are fully grasped, and when all karma has reached cessation. At this moment, all greed (lobha), aversion (dosa), delusion (moha), ignorance (avijjā), craving (tanha) and ego-centered consciousness (attā) are extinguished. Bodhi thus includes anattā, the absence of ego-centeredness.... Bodhi is always present and perfect.... It is sometimes described as complete and perfect sanity, or awareness of the true nature of the universe. After attainment, it is believed one is freed from the cycle of Samsāra: birth, suffering, death and rebirth

The real question is why is one using such a name with a ego-centered consciousness that makes one think of being a all knowing and all banning G-D.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi

I did not put the faces into this post they are not in the wiki, where did they come from? (Has a higher power spoken?).

 

[Eric Johnson]

I'm guessing that one of the Four Noble Truths has something to do with the evils of wood smoke.

I wonder how he/she/it feels about incense.

 

[Andre B.]

The accented a character in the text strings (avijjā) (attā) is evidently confusing the forum software and it is putting a ; in front of the ) which gets you the winking smiley.

 

[DriftWood]

The accented a character in the text strings (avijjā) (attā) is evidently confusing the forum software and it is putting a ; in front of the ) which gets you the winking smiley.

OK who put the bug into the software and why did it show up now? I have posted an alert for the Webmaster.

 

[Harley]

Bodhi is attained only by the accomplishment of the Paramitas (perfections), when the Four Noble Truths are fully grasped, and when all karma has reached cessation. At this moment, all greed (lobha), aversion (dosa), delusion (moha), ignorance (avijjā), craving (tanha) and ego-centered consciousness (attā) are extinguished. Bodhi thus includes anattā, the absence of ego-centeredness.... Bodhi is always present and perfect.... It is sometimes described as complete and perfect sanity, or awareness of the true nature of the universe. After attainment, it is believed one is freed from the cycle of Samsāra: birth, suffering, death and rebirth

The real question is why is one using such a name with a ego-centered consciousness that makes one think of being a all knowing and all banning G-D.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi

I did not put the faces into this post they are not in the wiki, where did they come from? (Has a higher power spoken?).

Thanks, Drift... that really explains a lot about the attitude

 

[Eric Johnson]

I think we should get a software dealerto check it out.

 

[erikdhafaB]

I did a quick google of burning issues and their parent company, clean air revival, inc, and their 'wood smoke health information' is being used all over the web.

Just a couple of examples

The US EPA: (broken link removed to http://www.epa.gov/woodstoves/Documents/Candidate/wood_smoke_health_effects.pdf)

The American Lung Association: http://www.burningissues.org/ala.htm

Childrens Rights.org: (broken link removed to http://www.childrensrights.com/cbr.htm)

And for you Mass. woodburners: http://www.masscleanair.org/mainlinks/health.htm

The forum 'goderator' may look like a lone nutcase with a beef against his/her neighbor's OWB and a small audience, but the organization behind it is certainly getting their message out.

Clean Air also sponsors other projects like the American Association for Fuel Cells

 

[restorer]

I did a quick google of burning issues and their parent company, clean air revival, inc, and their 'wood smoke health information' is being used all over the web.

Just a couple of examples

The US EPA: (broken link removed to http://www.epa.gov/woodstoves/Documents/Candidate/wood_smoke_health_effects.pdf)

The American Lung Association: http://www.burningissues.org/ala.htm

Childrens Rights.org: (broken link removed to http://www.childrensrights.com/cbr.htm)

And for you Mass. woodburners: http://www.masscleanair.org/mainlinks/health.htm

The forum 'goderator' may look like a lone nutcase with a beef against his/her neighbor's OWB and a small audience, but the organization behind it is certainly getting their message out.

Clean Air also sponsors other projects like the American Association for Fuel Cells

I checked the first two references. The EPA document uses data from ten to fifteen years old. The second looks like a position paper. What really bothers me is the documents are from their website. They are not complete and make vague references. I realize there are lots of chemicals released in burning, but what concentration? How many PPM and what is the accepted threshold levels. Throwing out chemical names and linking them to diseases is not causation. Listing effects on health and not explaining the level of exposure is like saying, "If you breathe air you will die, because it's full of chemicals." Remember the ALA has an agenda, too. They do press for the best air quality and are never satisfied. The problem is the impression created that there is a relationship between the two organizations and they are on the same level and agenda. I don't think any of these groups would appreciate being misquoted or quoted out of context.

 

[restorer]

Driftwood:
Freee-aaakkk-eeeddd me out! Man did I have a 60's DejaVu. I think I need a drink. Maybe two, maybe doubles. I never did drugs, but I thought I was having a flash back. Took me a while to realize you weren't giving an off the top extemperanious stream of consciouness fantasy.

Let's try another tact with the lesser god. Can we find out who he really is. I think it's a he, because the she is the luny from New York. "If we can reveal him, we can cleanse him", from the book of Karma, 1135. (I will not reveal my source)

Bodhi is attained only by the accomplishment of the Paramitas (perfections), when the Four Noble Truths are fully grasped, and when all karma has reached cessation. At this moment, all greed (lobha), aversion (dosa), delusion (moha), ignorance (avijjā), craving (tanha) and ego-centered consciousness (attā) are extinguished. Bodhi thus includes anattā, the absence of ego-centeredness.... Bodhi is always present and perfect.... It is sometimes described as complete and perfect sanity, or awareness of the true nature of the universe. After attainment, it is believed one is freed from the cycle of Samsāra: birth, suffering, death and rebirth

The real question is why is one using such a name with a ego-centered consciousness that makes one think of being a all knowing and all banning G-D.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi

I did not put the faces into this post they are not in the wiki, where did they come from? (Has a higher power spoken?).