Boiler Special $19700.00 plus 15% tax

[mikefrommaine]

Here is some priceless advice being offered on that other forum regarding OWB sizing.

Definitely get stainless, water-cooled door and no legs. Heatmor is probably the best. I agree that you should get the next size bigger than you think you need. 200,000 will do most homes. If you heat the pool, get twice that.

(broken link removed)

 

[heaterman]

Here is some priceless advice being offered on that other forum regarding OWB sizing.

It's probably a good thing I don't visit that site......could get ugly.......

 

[BoilerMan]

Scott, I have to admit I was tired and the rant was a bit unsupported. By ignorance, I meant over at AS and their name calling, I guess I'm used to that in my in-laws being farmers and "burned wood all their lives" mentality, literally buckets of creosote removed from their chimneys monthly..... I'm for voluntary education as well, but the classes would be ill-attended I'd think, at least around here. The "burned all my life" mentality again. I read this thread last night with my wife's Kindle so wasn't going to reply with that. I've been pondering some of your points today as I cleaned my boiler (rainey day project) between Mother's day events. Europe and the US have much different landscapes and trees as well. I was also thinking that is everyone stopped burning oil, NG, LP, or coal, and we all burned wood we would have some serious deforestation issues. If we all burned one source of fuel for all out needs we'd have some serious shortage issues, economics and efficiency such as with OWB and other seemingly overpriced things that I have no way to quantify why one would buy such a thing. It is interesting how all of this plays into the human psyche and the thought of Mike's post on OWB sizing, even worse! Ah well interesting thread indeed! I truly love these type of threads and the different perspectives, to get a balanced arguement we need.....dare I say...... some OWB fans to chime in......... waiting for lightning strike...........

TS

 

[Frozen Canuck]

we need.....dare I say...... some OWB fans to chime in......... waiting for lightning strike...........


TS

Don't think anything like that even exists after season 3. I know after I used 22 cord the first season & 25 the second....well the last word you could use to describe me was "fan". I am sooooo glad that "thing" is just sitting in the yard now catching dust. They do make sort of an interesting art deco motif for north america though. Scattered throughout farm country like old thrashing machines.The thrashing machine however performed as advertised, these "things" not even close.

 

[leon]

It's probably a good thing I don't visit that site......could get ugly.......

Hey Heaterman,

I have been responding to the very thread we are discussing on AS.
I enjoy explaining why they dont work very well for sure, as well as
explaining how a lot of firebrick makes great thermal mass to the deaf ears
on AS and (insert blasphemy here)how coal will heat a large herd of buildings
with less work.

 

[heaterman]

Hey Heaterman,

I have been responding to the very thread we are discussing on AS.
I enjoy explaining why they dont work very well for sure, as well as
explaining how a lot of firebrick makes great thermal mass to the deaf ears
on AS and (insert blasphemy here)how coal will heat a large herd of buildings
with less work.

Got a link?

 

[arbutus]

BoilerMan,

I'll give you my opinion, based totally on observation and not at all on experience.

OWB vs Gasser:
Initial cost: Entry level OWB is less than an entry level Gasser
Wood consumption: Gasser uses half? the wood of an OWB to produce the same net heat
Ongoing maintenance: OWB (no tubes to clean)
Lifespan: ??? Probably gasser

Particlulate emissions are something few buying OWBs truly care about.
A yard full of smoke is an annoyance to most, but it beats paying for propane or oil, which is why most are burning wood.

 

[leon]

Got a link?

hope this works:

(broken link removed to http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/236072-3htm#post4320369)

 

[leon]

Got a link?

hope this works:

(broken link removed to http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/236072-3htm#post4320369)

 

[heaterman]

BoilerMan,

I'll give you my opinion, based totally on observation and not at all on experience.

OWB vs Gasser:
Initial cost: Entry level OWB is less than an entry level Gasser
Wood consumption: Gasser uses half? the wood of an OWB to produce the same net heat
Ongoing maintenance: OWB (no tubes to clean)
Lifespan: ??? Probably gasser

Particlulate emissions are something few buying OWBs truly care about.
A yard full of smoke is an annoyance to most, but it beats paying for propane or oil, which is why most are burning wood.

True, a yard full of smoke is just an annoyance .......until their kids develop asthma or they get chronic bronchitis from it.
One study I read (NYSERDA?) equated the emission from a residential OWB to having something like 400 packs of cigarettes smoked in your yard every day. Even when they aren't smoking to beat the band they are still pounding out a lot of particulates and most people don't understand that. Smoke is just the visible part of emissions.

 

[heaterman]

hope this works:

(broken link removed to http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/236072-3htm#post4320369)

Nope....my 'puter says page not found

 

[skfire]

Scott, I have to admit I was tired and the rant was a bit unsupported. By ignorance, I meant over at AS and their name calling, I guess I'm used to that in my in-laws being farmers and "burned wood all their lives" mentality, literally buckets of creosote removed from their chimneys monthly..... I'm for voluntary education as well, but the classes would be ill-attended I'd think, at least around here. The "burned all my life" mentality again. I read this thread last night with my wife's Kindle so wasn't going to reply with that. I've been pondering some of your points today as I cleaned my boiler (rainey day project) between Mother's day events. Europe and the US have much different landscapes and trees as well. I was also thinking that is everyone stopped burning oil, NG, LP, or coal, and we all burned wood we would have some serious deforestation issues. If we all burned one source of fuel for all out needs we'd have some serious shortage issues, economics and efficiency such as with OWB and other seemingly overpriced things that I have no way to quantify why one would buy such a thing. It is interesting how all of this plays into the human psyche and the thought of Mike's post on OWB sizing, even worse! Ah well interesting thread indeed! I truly love these type of threads and the different perspectives, to get a balanced arguement we need.....dare I say...... some OWB fans to chime in......... waiting for lightning strike...........

TS

If we all burned wood, it would be over very quick, especially with most accepted burning methods.
I think our energy situation is dangerous at best, especially the lack of any infrastructure geared to the next fuel source..oil and gas will not be around for a long time. This last push is for milking the heck out of all its worth..and see below regarding "domestic energy"...money above all...where is their patriotic spirit?
(broken link removed)
Thank you for the great points Boiler Man

 

[arbutus]

True, a yard full of smoke is just an annoyance .......until their kids develop asthma or they get chronic bronchitis from it. One study I read (NYSERDA?) equated the emission from a residential OWB to having something like 400 packs of cigarettes smoked in your yard every day. Even when they aren't smoking to beat the band they are still pounding out a lot of particulates and most people don't understand that. Smoke is just the visible part of emissions.​

How does an EPA tagged OWB and a gasifier that cycles, such as a Wood Gun, or anything with out storage, compare in terms of particulates?

Having a wood heatsource in a detached building is a big plus for me, because I thought both of our wood stoves did a good job of spewing ash indoors at our previous house (old smoke dragon and 2007 Pacific Energy).

I'll also add that I happily use a burn barrel, when the wind is right, but Michigan was thinking about clamping down on those due to particulates a couple years ago.

 

[leon]

Heaterman,

I am sorry about that but I copied it exactly :^(,

Anyway you can go to the AS site and it is on the
firewood and wood heating pages two or three pages down.

 

[leon]

The particulates issue us another beast i have been trying to
eliminate describing how a water scrubber would work eliminating the
unburned particulates from exiting a stack using a water trap exactly like
the ones used for diesel exhaust gas scrubbers where in the exhaust would
be piped into a water bath then the only thing exiting an exhaust pipe
would be steam.

You would use more water of course but the stack exhaust would be
steam and only steam.

The basin would be made of mild steel and would be water tight of course
and it would have to be cleanable with a gasketed lid after the water was drained to
waste.

I do not see this happening though as it would cost more to make a OWB BUT the benefits of
simple steam as an exhaust plume would outweigh the negatives in dealing with particulates
as there would be none. As always hope springs eternal.

 

[mikefrommaine]

Nope....my 'puter says page not found

Try this

(broken link removed)

 

[heaterman]

Try this

(broken link removed)

Got it. Added a comment.

After reading through that thread I can see what the prevailing wisdom is there..........


EDIT: Added another post there, we'll wait and see if I get flamed.

 

[heaterman]

How does an EPA tagged OWB and a gasifier that cycles, such as a Wood Gun, or anything with out storage, compare in terms of particulates?

Having a wood heatsource in a detached building is a big plus for me, because I thought both of our wood stoves did a good job of spewing ash indoors at our previous house (old smoke dragon and 2007 Pacific Energy).

I'll also add that I happily use a burn barrel, when the wind is right, but Michigan was thinking about clamping down on those due to particulates a couple years ago.

Truth be known..........there's not a lot of difference in actual performance as far as the off or low demand idling is concerned. Lot's of manufacturers will tell you different but real world tests are proving otherwise. Even the high brow Euro models don't do all that well when cycled off and idled. Storage is key to burning clean and keeping things at max efficiency. Anyone telling you differently is just blowing smoke (pun intended)

 

[mikefrommaine]

Added another post there, we'll wait and see if I get flamed.

They ignored my attempt to instigate.

 

[maple1]

You guys are bad.

Some interesting reading though.

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

So why do people keep buying these things? It is my understanding the Central sells more boilers each year than all the high efficiency indoor equipment suppliers combined. What is the message that is resonating so strongly with homeowners? Obviously something I've thought a lot about, but I would really appreciate any feedback on this. Thank in advance. Chris

Chris,
The main thing is that attractive is that the unit is outside and near the wood storage.
A buyer ready to pull the trigger for this type of central heating can make one phone call in my area and have financing and the product delivery date with all neccessry accesories for install. Fairly easy install pad for boiler,lines to house, electric

Indoor requires much research(planning), more labor (can't do in one weekend)

Now if the indoor guys could put together for Example: 25' storage container with a properly sized indoor gasser with water storage plumbed and wired. educate the buyer on batch burning now You will have the market. providing you can put it all together within the price of the new gasser OWB. Two weekends and it can be installed. include 100' of thermopex or logstar and a heat exchanger.

My point is that after researching this site I like the indoor boilers the best for longevity and wood consumption. the problem that I have is; that I do all the leg work to come up with a system and all the prices are still at full retail for this setup plus It will take much longer to install.
Your products, product knowledge and installs are proven.

Scenario: 3000 s.f. cape including basement. FHA furnace 2x6 construction(1986) entrance to basement is a standard bulkhead with dormer and 30" access door and one flight of stairs. Propane hot water tank(40gal)
future barn to be 32 x40(2x6 walls 10 high cieling) radiant in floor.

Challenge for indoor guys: sell me on a complete stand alone indoor system for outdoors that I can install in 1-2 weekends.

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[leon]

If you have a shed or one car garage for this system its going to be easy

Harmon SF-360 wood and coal boiler 42 gallons with hot water coil.
8 by 8 lined chimney or round chimney pipe 2 feet above roof line of home.

You could use the smaller SF-240 wood and coal boiler and save even more money

Air scoop with one automatic vent to vent air from system at the first storage tank.

Automatic air vents in the top of the 4 storage tanks.

five boiler drains for the Boiler and storage tank.
four boiler drains to bleed air from top of storage tanks when filling system with cold water
prior to firing.

Backflow preventor for water feed loop from potable water supply to boiler inlet in home.

Water pressure regulator for water feed to boiler.

4 New Horizons storage tanks @ 490 gallons each 1960 gallons capacity
5 pop off valves- one on boiler and four on storage tanks mounted on top of storage tanks
1 or 2 loops of X number of feet of 13.00 thermo Pex from garage/shed to home
for domestic hot water and hydronic heat OR simply avoid a domestic loop.

Install one pump inside the home to create a continuous heating loop from boiler to home
and back to boiler to prevent freeze damage

2 aquastats for overheat protection and hydronic heat service.


The use of schedule 80 threaded pipe fittings to connect to the storage tanks in
series using unions and pipe dope after the tanks are set on 6 by 6 PT beams to keep them above ground
and then to the $13 thermopex (only if you cannot solder like me).



OR you could simply use one steel stove pipe, an 8 inch flue tile, one 490 gallon tank and the SF360 and see how that pony runs for the first season.

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

Leon,
That boiler is a non-gasser?

 

[BoilerMan]

Leon, I had a New Yorker WC130, with shaker grates. I wanted to have the option to burn coal, to say the least, I was not impressed on how the underfire air burned wood. Coal yes, but it is really a coal boiler also rated for wood. I operated it with storage and burned it hot and wide open. Still smoked a considerable amount but let enough heat up the flue I had no creosote issues. I ran the stack at 350-400F. Having said that I now have a gasser on the same system with storage and although the cleaning is a bit more I save about 25% on wood, mind you I ran the NY as efficient as a water jacked box can possibly be run. Neither of my systems idle.

TS

 

[maple1]

You can get a decent gassifying boiler for less than or not more than the cost of that Harman - pretty sure that one wouldn't be on my radar...