NE WOOD BURNER
Minister of Fire
- Dec 30, 2012
- 754
Check out the EPA OWB that are required now in many states. A bit more than your owb range you mentioned. Non epa are in your owb range.
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Check out the EPA OWB that are required now in many states. A bit more than your owb range you mentioned. Non epa are in your owb range.
Chris, most people I've spoken to in Virginia anyway have never heard of a wood gasification boiler. I happened to stumble across a Greenwood ad and then this site on-line, otherwise would have never heard of them either. Many around here have OWBs however. For one, there are dealers around and you can drive by and see OWBs every time you are on Rte 220. A lot more publicizing needs to be done. Almost everyone I've talked top about our Solo Innova is interested even the OWB boiler owners, so its not a lack of interest. If you could run ads like GEICO does, every minute of every day, things might be different. Gasifiers are like a well kept secret.
Mike
Mike
maple1
Minister of Fire
Really? My indoor gasser is around $5500 list. I have seen Ekos advertised for much less than that. What OWBs are priced at half of that? The CB in the first post is around 3 times that.
The EKO is on the low side.
What others cost less than $6000? I'm shopping right now!
I'm still new to wood boilers. Michigan doesn't require EPA OWBs as far as I know.
Most OWB owners I've spoken to don't want to hear anything about a gasser -- something about too much work to cut and split wood -- then they stick their head back in the sand. A quick google search of "wood boiler review" brings up plenty of info about alternatives. This Hearh.com thread is the third result. And a "wood boiler" google search brings up lots of gassification boilers.
Poetically timed, just left a friend's house and was talking to his neighbor down the road, he had an OWB and
3 tri axle loads of logs
...he just bought from the logger down the road for $ 1,800..he was happy as a clam, said he got a good deal on his wood supply for the next 2 years
I could not stand it..I opened my trap and told him in my system that would be 6-7 years. After I gave him the gasser particulars...he said it wasn't worth it..all that splitting and stacking and moving..I tried explaining that splitting 5-6 cord a year even in smalls, beats the hell out of dealing with 12-15 cord a year...he shrugged it off with no intelligible reply..
Next I brought up the finite and conservation aspect of future wood burning..that didn't go well at all.
It is evident the media brain washing has worked well...if one mentions conservation they equate it with liberalism...Conservatives practice conservation I retorted...Has English been taken out of the school curriculum along with Civics????..I pretty much wasted my time....So there you have it.
I think Mike nailed it.
Scott
- Oct 3, 2007
- 1,539
Over at AS, the amount of cords burned per year is akin to bragging rights, ie: "Yep, burned 12 cords this year-WOO HOO
"
NE WOOD BURNER
Minister of Fire
- Dec 30, 2012
- 754
Well this lady now owns this E-classic at what ever she paid for it. I would hope someone close to her has knowledge of how to achieve the most of this unit.
I almost pulled the trigger on this unit but was not able to justify in my mind with what I have seen for life expectancy of these units. Of the 5 I saw in operation none where burning dry wood. So now I wonder if the life expectancy would not be longer if dry wood was used. So in that regard I think its hard to compare.
As for a dollar comparison I got a quote for a Froling with storage no install for the same money. but I will need to build a building for it and pay taxes on the building.
If I build a building then I get carried away and lokk at the Garn or switzer.
I still believe an indoor gasser set up like an e-classic for outside would be a great seller. The key is to offer storage options with it.
I almost pulled the trigger on this unit but was not able to justify in my mind with what I have seen for life expectancy of these units. Of the 5 I saw in operation none where burning dry wood. So now I wonder if the life expectancy would not be longer if dry wood was used. So in that regard I think its hard to compare.
As for a dollar comparison I got a quote for a Froling with storage no install for the same money. but I will need to build a building for it and pay taxes on the building.
If I build a building then I get carried away and lokk at the Garn or switzer.
I still believe an indoor gasser set up like an e-classic for outside would be a great seller. The key is to offer storage options with it.
NE WOOD BURNER
Minister of Fire
- Dec 30, 2012
- 754
"Econoburn used to or still does sell a unit just like you describe"
Yes, but they are not white tagged for NH. unless that has changed
Yes, but they are not white tagged for NH. unless that has changed
That's government for you. You can install the boiler inside a shed but not if it comes in it's own shed? Even though it's far more efficient then a white tagged CB!
NE WOOD BURNER
Minister of Fire
- Dec 30, 2012
- 754
You see my issue. I have looked at this very hard. I can always hook up in my basement but if Im still carrying wood inside and downstairs. I may as well keep my wood stoves and save the money.
The econoburn is about $12,500 with out additional storage. it is a closed system looks interesting, but I posted a while back and didnt get many users to reply.
If i recall the indoor was $2000 cheaper.
The econoburn is about $12,500 with out additional storage. it is a closed system looks interesting, but I posted a while back and didnt get many users to reply.
If i recall the indoor was $2000 cheaper.
I am do glad when I visit the forum here in that I can mention what I
have been trying to explain to many others on "The Other Forum".
I have described in great detail the advantages of using firebrick as
method of storing thermal energy and as a source of heat energy
radaiting back into the firebox to keep the fire at higher temperature
and as result reduce smoke.
In my case I have locally made wood and coal boiler that has shaker grates
which I filled half full of firebrick after I installed a12 by 12 by 2 inch piece of
channel iron for the firebrick to rest on. Granted I lost half the volume of the
firebox which originally was 12 by 24 by 36 inches in size and the flue is a
rear exiting 8 inch diameter. The problem is the chimney as it is an 8 by 12
clay liner chimney that barely clears the roof line(yes I will be correcting that
this summer with a 24 inch extension. The other thorn in the side is the fact
that the oil boiler and the wood and coal boiler share the same chimney-
Waiting on my brothers plumber to bring a used(good condition) power exhauster
to install it for me.
SO I have been explaining how thermal mass can benefit the end user because the
water is a source of heat energy that can be used and hot water takes less time to
bring up to temperature to no avail as every one has lots of wood-I do not and log loads
are extinct around here).
I belabored the point that if you have 2,000 thousand gallons of storage you have
2,000 gallons of thermal mass to take advantage of when heating a residence.
I also explained that the return water has useable heat energy that can aid in reducing
the energy required to bring the water back up to temperature as well.
I also went to great lengths explaining how filling these monstrocities half full or more with
firebrick as well as buring small splits permits the end user to get the most heat out of a
firewood stash. I also explained that several of the S members have large gallon capacities
of thermal storage inclusing one member that fills his boiler(old RR tank car) once a week with a skid steer
loader and has a clean burn because he heats several buildings with it.
After explaining this to a poster that was examining the purchase of one of these things
another poster stated to be "wary of Leon and Hearth.com and the OWB naysayers there"
I also explained to the person examining these bloody things that the builders of these things
have no desire to add thermal storage such as firebrick or more water capacity because it
would cost them more money to build them and reduce thier profit.
The CB design is inherently inefficient becuase of the rectangular firebox design, the lack of water
capacity to permit the boiler to burn a continous hot fire to reduce smoke to a minimum as well as
lacking shaker grates. The other negative is the design of the fireboxes interior above the hearth which
increases the area of fire box exposed to the hearth but will eventually suffer metal fatigue from
"Cavitation Corrosion" WHICH are the two dirty worfs you will never here them say becuase they
do not use boiler plate!!
have been trying to explain to many others on "The Other Forum".
I have described in great detail the advantages of using firebrick as
method of storing thermal energy and as a source of heat energy
radaiting back into the firebox to keep the fire at higher temperature
and as result reduce smoke.
In my case I have locally made wood and coal boiler that has shaker grates
which I filled half full of firebrick after I installed a12 by 12 by 2 inch piece of
channel iron for the firebrick to rest on. Granted I lost half the volume of the
firebox which originally was 12 by 24 by 36 inches in size and the flue is a
rear exiting 8 inch diameter. The problem is the chimney as it is an 8 by 12
clay liner chimney that barely clears the roof line(yes I will be correcting that
this summer with a 24 inch extension. The other thorn in the side is the fact
that the oil boiler and the wood and coal boiler share the same chimney-
Waiting on my brothers plumber to bring a used(good condition) power exhauster
to install it for me.
SO I have been explaining how thermal mass can benefit the end user because the
water is a source of heat energy that can be used and hot water takes less time to
bring up to temperature to no avail as every one has lots of wood-I do not and log loads
are extinct around here).
I belabored the point that if you have 2,000 thousand gallons of storage you have
2,000 gallons of thermal mass to take advantage of when heating a residence.
I also explained that the return water has useable heat energy that can aid in reducing
the energy required to bring the water back up to temperature as well.
I also went to great lengths explaining how filling these monstrocities half full or more with
firebrick as well as buring small splits permits the end user to get the most heat out of a
firewood stash. I also explained that several of the S members have large gallon capacities
of thermal storage inclusing one member that fills his boiler(old RR tank car) once a week with a skid steer
loader and has a clean burn because he heats several buildings with it.
After explaining this to a poster that was examining the purchase of one of these things
another poster stated to be "wary of Leon and Hearth.com and the OWB naysayers there"
I also explained to the person examining these bloody things that the builders of these things
have no desire to add thermal storage such as firebrick or more water capacity because it
would cost them more money to build them and reduce thier profit.
The CB design is inherently inefficient becuase of the rectangular firebox design, the lack of water
capacity to permit the boiler to burn a continous hot fire to reduce smoke to a minimum as well as
lacking shaker grates. The other negative is the design of the fireboxes interior above the hearth which
increases the area of fire box exposed to the hearth but will eventually suffer metal fatigue from
"Cavitation Corrosion" WHICH are the two dirty worfs you will never here them say becuase they
do not use boiler plate!!
maple1
Minister of Fire
I don't think rectangular fire boxes & lack of shaker grates detract from efficiency?
Also not sure firebrick stores a lot of energy - it is more of an insulator. Although it no doubt gets hot next to a hot fire.
Also not sure firebrick stores a lot of energy - it is more of an insulator. Although it no doubt gets hot next to a hot fire.
maple1
Minister of Fire
- Oct 3, 2007
- 1,539
That's probably the nicest thing I've ever heard said about Hearth.com over there...
Usually posts about this site involve profanity and some reference to Obama supporters, sheeple, communists, and words questioning the collective sexual orientation of the members here 
Can't we all just get along?That's probably the nicest thing I've ever heard said about Hearth.com over there...
Someone needs to schedule a Hearth and ArboristSite get together.
I don't know what kind of OWB owners some of you might be running into. The ones I've known from work readily shared their experience with their units, as I was interested in their experiences with wood-burning, and I've had the same response in kind. On the other hand I wasn't trying to say mine was better, They could draw their own conclusions. We were all trying to get off the oil/propane/natural gas bandwagon that was punishing us all financially. I could afford a newer more efficient technology, that's all. Not everyone can afford a gasifier, at least where I live. After shopping around, I guesstimate the average OWB available locally goes for considerably less than the average gasser, which I had to order from New Hampshire.
Its not a competition, and people of course are going to be defensive over something they have put a lot of time and effort into. I bet nobody here would want to have some geothermal system owner blowing smoke in their faces. So lighten up. People who do something less well than you don't need a good bashing, and are hardly stupid. I'll wager that lady who got hosed on her CB Unit would have welcomed some varying suggestions from any of us rather than to have wasted her hard earned money due to slick salesmen or not knowing about better alternatives. I was looking at CB Units myself at first. I happened to learn a little more, mostly on this site. But I've never met a single person whose ever heard of Hearth.com. much less wood gasifiers, or done any research on-line on wood boilers. We should be spreading the word until lots of people know about this technology. Then it will deservedly take hold, and not be a niche product.
(And we can help Chris Hoskin, Mark from Ahona, the Cozy Heat guy, and the rest of the dealers become the multi-millionaires they deserve to be.)
By the way, if we need to tighten up any of those Arborsite people, please let me know.
Mike
Its not a competition, and people of course are going to be defensive over something they have put a lot of time and effort into. I bet nobody here would want to have some geothermal system owner blowing smoke in their faces. So lighten up. People who do something less well than you don't need a good bashing, and are hardly stupid. I'll wager that lady who got hosed on her CB Unit would have welcomed some varying suggestions from any of us rather than to have wasted her hard earned money due to slick salesmen or not knowing about better alternatives. I was looking at CB Units myself at first. I happened to learn a little more, mostly on this site. But I've never met a single person whose ever heard of Hearth.com. much less wood gasifiers, or done any research on-line on wood boilers. We should be spreading the word until lots of people know about this technology. Then it will deservedly take hold, and not be a niche product.
(And we can help Chris Hoskin, Mark from Ahona, the Cozy Heat guy, and the rest of the dealers become the multi-millionaires they deserve to be.)
By the way, if we need to tighten up any of those Arborsite people, please let me know.
Mike
Sorry about my typos-the letters are worn off the key board
and I am unable to use the edit funtion.
Central Boiler will never get involved with an indoor hydronic
boiler maker becuase of theire use of Stainless steel and
"thier" boiler design would not get any takers. I will post a
image of a Burnham boiler to show you all later
and I am unable to use the edit funtion.
Central Boiler will never get involved with an indoor hydronic
boiler maker becuase of theire use of Stainless steel and
"thier" boiler design would not get any takers. I will post a
image of a Burnham boiler to show you all later
maple1
Minister of Fire
I'm still trying to get my head around the idea that an indoor gassifier + storage is so much more expensive than an OWB. That OWB quoted in the first post is around double the cost of my boiler & storage. What OWB can you get for $3500-4000?
BoilerMan
Minister of Fire
I still think it's an unwillingness for people to recognize the fact that there are different ways to do something. Some people are happy to have minimal processing and burn more wood, do I feel that way, no. If they have access to lots of wood, I'm not too worried there is some type of wood-consuming mongering and the whole country will become like Hati, deforested desert. Are we worried about some kind of ban on wood-burning due to the billowing smoke from OWBs, and that turning into us having to go back to oil? We are set on our boilers and their efficiency, they are set on their lack of oil bills and are (usually) ok with burning copious amounts of wood (compaired to high efficiency users). They think we are nuts and we think the same of them. It's like alot of things in life, we need to try and see things from someone else's perspective, even if it goes against what we believe. That way we can understand where they are comming from, and maybe we can show them why we believe what we believe. And it is their right to have their own opinion, just as we do. I like Fords, they like Chevys etc.
It was said on the first page that we should have laws banning OWBs, that sounds like liberalism to me. We can't ban all things that we don't like, offset laws, sure, don't choke your neighbor with woodsmoke, but banning no. If I want to own 100 acres and live right in the middle and have an OWB and not bother anyone, I should be free to do so. That same thing should not happen in a subdivision or urban setting, that just makes everyone mad.
'Nough said, the soap box is free now..............
TS
It was said on the first page that we should have laws banning OWBs, that sounds like liberalism to me. We can't ban all things that we don't like, offset laws, sure, don't choke your neighbor with woodsmoke, but banning no. If I want to own 100 acres and live right in the middle and have an OWB and not bother anyone, I should be free to do so. That same thing should not happen in a subdivision or urban setting, that just makes everyone mad.
If they are totally ignorant, then let them be. I for one am about as conservitave as they come, trust me. We need to be realistic, and I for one believe that if we can use domestically produced oil and and not import huge amounts of energy, we'd be much better off. That means less gov't restriction on just about everything, and more conservitism to get there. Being a good steward, and being stupid are two different things. Coal isn't in the ground to leave there, and trees don't grow for us to hug. The O voters hang out in the AshCan for some good political debate. I do frequent there.That's probably the nicest thing I've ever heard said about Hearth.com over there...
'Nough said, the soap box is free now..............
TS
Hi Maple1,
Here's what I was thinking when I posted those numbers:
(broken link removed to http://holland.craigslist.org/fod/3706476097.html)
(broken link removed to http://swmi.craigslist.org/hsd/3773077948.html)
(broken link removed to http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/for/3787094813.html)
I made reference to my previous neighbors who installed OWBs and both had yards full of smoke.
I think they had the smaller model here and I want to say they were in the $5k range a few years ago when I asked about them.
(broken link removed to http://hawkenenergy.com/products/furnaces/)
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