Blaze king Sirroco 20 help

[weatherguy]

Sounds like the a drafting problem and unseasoned wood Laura. If your wood is dry and the draft is pulling good you should have that stat on low and the cat active for 10 hours. Sometimes just adding 2-3 feet makes all the difference in the world, not having double wall is just another thing not in your favor.
So: 1) wood
2)draft
3)pipe

All three of those have to be correct for the stove to work properly.

 

[begreen]

Thanks laura. That helps and confirms a suspicion I had. Your low night time temps were chilly on the 18th-20th, but your daytime temps are balmy, almost 60F. You are not getting enough draft and the wood is suspect. With stronger draft you would get more heat at a lower thermostat setting. One year oak is worthless for fuel. It takes a few years to season. Madrona takes at least 2 years. With stronger draft the stove may be more tolerant of oak. I suspect that the dealer's chimney is taller maybe?

Here is what I would try. It's cheap and should be pretty conclusive. Have the dealer remove the barometric damper. It is unnecessary and a potential source of leakage. Then have the dealer remove the cap and cram a 3-4' piece, crimp down, of single wall pipe into chimney. It will look like sin, but this is just for a day or so of testing. Get yourself a load of construction scraps (dry 2x4 and 2x6 cut offs), or some pallets and cut them up into stove sized wood. Start a fire and once the wood is going well and the stove cat is over 500F, close the bypass. As the cat temp rises, close down the thermostat to about 1.5 on the dial. I think you will have good heat. If this works, buy some pine or some known dry wood like this and save the oak for next year.:
(broken link removed to http://chico.craigslist.org/grd/4250761092.html)

 

[HotCoals]

- 95415 its in the 30's at night, can get down to high 20's, this week supposed to be in 40s.
- low ceilings, stove in ~400 sf room. 2 adjoining rooms both < 400sf that are 3 steps up (so thinking was no problem to heat them ), original owner/builder did an amazing job in the 50's with insulating it. 1 past owner's remodel has caused lots of drafts. I used plastic on old wood windows and weatherstripped doors, caulked up obvious holes. Other rooms are closed off and I have door drafts sealed. At most am trying to heat up 1200sf.
- flue total is ~13-14' has a cap
- fuel i bought was 1 year seasoned oak doesn;t burn hot. But I had a bit of older oak and madrone for experiments and as mentioned before dealer brought his seasoned oak which works fine in his sirocco 30.

With the outside temps you have that stove with good wood should heat you out of the room!
If you are burning through a near full load of wood in 3 or 4 hours all the heat has to be going up the flue.
I'm going with a faulty by-pass linkage.
I don't know about your stove put on my king I can easily hear the by-pass being closed and can feel the resistance a lot right at the end of closing it.

 

[HotCoals]

Thanks laura. That helps and confirms a suspicion I had. Your low night time temps were chilly on the 18th-20th, but your daytime temps are balmy, almost 60F. You are not getting enough draft and the wood is suspect. With stronger draft you would get more heat at a lower thermostat setting. One year oak is worthless for fuel. It takes a few years to season. Madrona takes at least 2 years. With stronger draft the stove may be more tolerant of oak. I suspect that the dealer's chimney is taller maybe?

Here is what I would try. It's cheap and should be pretty conclusive. Get the barometric damper off. It is unnecessary. Then have the dealer remove the cap and cram a 3-4' piece, crimp down, of single wall pipe into chimney. It will look like sin, but this is just for a day or so of testing. Get yourself a load of construction scraps (dry 2x4 and 2x6 cut offs), or some pallets and cut them up into stove sized wood. Start a fire and once the wood is going well and the stove cat is over 500F, close the bypass. As the cat temp rises, close down the thermostat to about 1.5 on the dial.

I think you're right . For sure I would remove that damper.
I just don't understand how she can burn through a load in 3 or 4 hours and the room is at best 70?
She claims the dealer brought her great wood even.
I just feel by reading what she has posted the heat is all going up the flue.
But it does sound like poor wood on the surface.

 

[begreen]

I'm going with a faulty by-pass linkage.
I don't know about your stove put on my king I can easily hear the by-pass being closed and can feel the resistance a lot right at the end of closing it.

Good suggestion HotCoals. She indicates that the cat temp was at 100% for a sustained time. Will the cat get up to full temp with the bypass open?

 

[HotCoals]

Good suggestion HotCoals. She indicates that the cat temp was at 100% for a sustained time. Will the cat get up to full temp with the bypass open?

Yep..if your burning hot enough it will. At least on my stove it will.

 

[Rickb]

mine will too. But it should be pretty easy to feel if the bypass is opening and closing.

 

[HotCoals]

Her stove being new and doing such a lousy job makes me think something is really wrong with the stove.
The draft must be somewhat ok for her to burn through a load in such a short time. I hear nothing from her saying she is getting a back draft or puffing.
Wood will still be suspect just the same.
Apparently her cat is lighting off and even if it did not she should get more heat then what she is seeing from burning a load in that short time.
I don't know what she considers a load is though...for all I know it could just be 3 small splits.

 

[begreen]

Thanks for the feedback. I haven't had the pleasure yet of running a BK.

Laura, the easiest thing for you to do right now is to gather some construction scraps like 2x4s or 4x4s from a local carpenter or building site. Once the fire has started load it up at least half full. That will eliminate the wood as an issue. Try HotCoals suggestion with the bypass damper test. If it is not engaging correctly this would explain the lack of real heat from the stove. Your chimney is marginal, but not terrible for a cat stove. It should be working better than it is. But you mild daytime temps are also reducing draft, thus my suggestion for a temporary extension to the flue.

 

[HotCoals]

mine will too. But it should be pretty easy to feel if the bypass is opening and closing.

Right.
I just want to eliminate or know that the by-pass is the problem. Should be easy to conclude.
I know she seems to think it is fine. But where is all the heat going?

 

[Rickb]

The heat is going up the flue cause she is burning it wide open. She is saying basically the stove is going out when set to low. Which would indicate wet wood, bad draft, other......

I am burning marginal wood at best 20-25% and min e doesn't go out but I have a lot of chimney.


I think at this point she needs to go to lowes/HD spend 5 bucks on 2 - 8 foot 2x4's ask them to cut it down to 14-15inch pieces load the stove 3/4 full run on high till up to temp shut the stove down and see if it runs or goes out. If the stove goes out then I think the automatic temp control(IE alien tech) is not working right.

 

[HotCoals]

Thanks for the feedback. I haven't had the pleasure yet of running a BK.

Laura, the easiest thing for you to do right now is to gather some construction scraps like 2x4s or 4x4s from a local carpenter or building site. Once the fire has started load it up at least half full. That will eliminate the wood as an issue. Try HotCoals suggestion with the bypass damper test. If it is not engaging correctly this would explain the lack of real heat from the stove. Your chimney is marginal, but not terrible for a cat stove. It should be working better than it is.

I agree she needs to do what you are saying with the wood. We have to know that the wood is not the biggest problem. Otherwise it will be fruitless to try and figure this out without being there.
The thing that bothers me is the fact the dealer was there. You would think he would have made sure the by-pass was working fine. Which leads me back to poor wood..even though he brought wood that burns fine in his own stove. But yet the place won't heat up with fairly warm temps?
I can only conclude that the dealer dropped the ball some with this situation. If we can't resolve this from here she needs to get someone else in there.
I feel her stove if all is right will be a great heater for her with the info she has provided.

 

[begreen]

If I was closer I would do a road trip. Love northern CA.

 

[HotCoals]

The heat is going up the flue cause she is burning it wide open. She is saying basically the stove is going out when set to low. Which would indicate wet wood, bad draft, other......

I am burning marginal wood at best 20-25% and min e doesn't go out but I have a lot of chimney.


I think at this point she needs to go to lowes/HD spend 5 bucks on 2 - 8 foot 2x4's ask them to cut it down to 14-15inch pieces load the stove 3/4 full run on high till up to temp shut the stove down and see if it runs or goes out. If the stove goes out then I think the automatic temp control(IE alien tech) is not working right.

Well I think the t-sat is ok. The fire gets stronger on high so I don't think it is wound backwards.
I'm sure that stove has a idle hole that should keep her going fine but draft could be a issue...but yet even on high she can't get the room above 70?
Surely you are right..it could all come down to wood and having that barometric damper in place...that damper could kill her draft at low burn crazy bad. Letting room temp air into your woodstove flue is a very bad idea imo..maybe worse then a reclaimer if that is possible.

 

[Highbeam]

The bypass "linkage" is not a linkage at all. More likely she is flipping it the wrong way or doesn't know how to lock it down.

Dealers of BKs are often hardware store type places and I would certainly not expect the majority of them to be capable of much more than selling the product.

I vote for wet wood plus single wall (with bends and a baro!) making poor draft. Picture of interior and exterior would help along with a door open view of the loaded stove so we can see how much wood is getting in there.

 

[HotCoals]

The bypass "linkage" is not a linkage at all. More likely she is flipping it the wrong way or doesn't know how to lock it down.

Dealers of BKs are often hardware store type places and I would certainly not expect the majority of them to be capable of much more than selling the product.

I vote for wet wood plus single wall (with bends and a baro!) making poor draft. Picture of interior and exterior would help along with a door open view of the loaded stove so we can see how much wood is getting in there.

Well mine has linkage.
I tend to agree with you but where is the heat going when she burns up a "load" in 3 to 4 hours?
But yes..her load might just be 3 or 4 smaller splits of lesser wood and who knows what the "dealer" brought for wood.

 

[begreen]

The dealer owns a Sirocco 30 so I would hope that he knows how to operate the bypass when he tested the stove. Lose the barometric damper, they are used for overdraft typically, not underdraft.

If you can post some pictures of the installation we may be able to spot something else with the flue.

 

[laura bv]

I would try to stay encouraged. You have a issue but once corrected it should work very well. My 20 is heating my whole finnished area in my basement(about 750sqft) with enough heat left to keep the main floor around 69-70 as logn as the lows are above 20ish.

Your air leak is not in the stovepipe/chimney side. It will be in the box itself or the primary air control.

OK. Will try, but I've been trying for several weeks now. Thanks for this bit as I didn;t want to have to get back up on the roof this week.

 

[laura bv]

ok.

So then when you close the by-pass with the door open smoke does come into the room?

No not really, smoke into the room is not an issue.

 

[HotCoals]

No not really, smoke into the room is not an issue.

Well with the door open and the by-pass closed it should smoke the room. At least on a king it will . But like i said I don't know your stove.
Does the by-pass lever click into the closed position solidly?

 

[laura bv]

The dealer owns a Sirocco 30 so I would hope that he knows how to operate the bypass when he tested the stove. Lose the barometric damper, they are used for overdraft typically, not underdraft.

If you can post some pictures of the installation we may be able to spot something else with the flue.

 

[laura bv]

T
There is no barametric damper. It was something I was researching as the trouble shooter PDF that I posted a link to mentioned it. It was the ONLY item on their list for problem with wood burns that I have not ruled out.

 

[HotCoals]

Laura,
Tell us what you consider a load of wood to be. A pic of the stove loaded would be better yet.

 

[laura bv]

You should never have it on high really unless your starting a new fire or just added wood. On high you will burn through wood very fast and all your heat is going up the flue. Try to turn it down and let it run as low as you can go. With dry wood and a hot coal bed you should be able to have almost no flame and it will run for 10 hours that way.

On high because it can't function well or for very long on anything lower than high. Of COURSE I would LOVE to turn it down, save wood and get those advertised 20 hour burns.

 

[laura bv]

L

Laura,
Tell us what you consider a load of wood to be. A pic of the stove loaded would be better yet.

Loaded before the dealer's visit was exactly as stated in the manual: Left to right, back to front. I could fit 3 medium to large-ish logs. Dealer's loads was that plus front to back as much could fit right up to the window (dangerous to open door with coals right up to the door). I also mentioned to him that flames under the CC could damage it according to the manual. But...