Blaze king problems. Short burns

[Jesse83]

On this pic let's say the very top is 12 so the needle is around 2 o'clock currently. I've only seen it go above 3 once. Most of the time it's around 12 and every hr or so it would bounce between 1 and roughly 11. Still in the active range. On average I would say the cat is at the 12 o'clock range.

 

[lsucet]

On this pic let's say the very top is 12 so the needle is around 2 o'clock currently. I've only seen it go above 3 once. Most of the time it's around 12 and every hr or so it would bounce between 1 and roughly 11. Still in the active range. On average I would say the cat is at the 12 o'clock range.

For what I understand plus was discussed on other thread is, that as long it is into the active zone it is ok. It doesn't need to be all the way at the end of the scale.

 

[jetsam]

If he's running the fan all the time, the cat probe is going to be read low. This doesn't actually mean the cat is cool.

Note the red-hot, glowing cat, and the lukewarm cat probe reading. That's a brand new cat, too- but the fan is on high.

(My PI is running at about 700°F stovetop temp at the moment; it is unseasonably cold here. The stove is pouring out heat. )

 

[Jesse83]

How do you get your glass so clean? Mine is black no matter what temp I run it at.

 

[black smoke signals]

Jesse your original post- Low burn times-not happy with heat output! Get a meter to check MC of the wood your using Lowe’s has them.

 

[jetsam]

How do you get your glass so clean? Mine is black no matter what temp I run it at.

It cleans itself anytime the thermostat is at medium or higher. You seem to have a cold firebox. I have to run, but here's a few possibilities:

1) Wet wood
2) Bypass not closing fully
3) Thermostat or air flapper not working right
4) Extremely poor draft

We can eliminate #4 because you'd have been asking why your room always fills with smoke when you start a fire.

I'm also ruling out #2 because I could heat my house and have clean glass with a dead cat (it just takes a lot more wood and more reloading).

Of the last two, wet wood is far and away the most likely. You can successfully heat with that stove using wet wood, but you need to operate it a bit differently (and buy a flue brush).

Late for work, I'll check in after. Could someone post the moisture meter/70F/fresh split litany for me?

 

[Marshy]

Easiest way to verify wet wood without a moisture meter is load the firebox full of kiln dried wood and see what happens to the performance. Go buy some 2x4 or 2x6 at Lowes and cut them up (non treated only) and burn them.

Double check your manual for troubkeshooting poor performance and follow it.

 

[twd000]

Are you closing the by pass handle until you hear a click?

question about the "click". I have not been pressing down on my bypass handle until it clicks, just enough that the weight of the bypass door holds it down. It's a two-step process to hear the "click", and I only do the first step. Reason being is that the dollar bill test indicated the door was fully closed after "step 1". When pressing it down to "step 2" (the click) the bypass door seemed to be shifting due to the cam action, and the dollar bill test indicates there are (small) gaps around the bypass door. Am I operating my bypass handle incorrectly by just allowing it to seal from its own weight? Stove performance is great in my opinion.

 

[Marshy]

question about the "click". I have not been pressing down on my bypass handle until it clicks, just enough that the weight of the bypass door holds it down. It's a two-step process to hear the "click", and I only do the first step. Reason being is that the dollar bill test indicated the door was fully closed after "step 1". When pressing it down to "step 2" (the click) the bypass door seemed to be shifting due to the cam action, and the dollar bill test indicates there are (small) gaps around the bypass door. Am I operating my bypass handle incorrectly by just allowing it to seal from its own weight? Stove performance is great in my opinion.

You are not operating it per the manuals instructions. You should probably reach out to @BKVP and see if that is normal or what they recommend. The cam action of the bypass lever should only add a slight amount of pressure to the bypass door and not cause it to rock or open a gap anywhere on the seal. It makes me curious how tight the adjustment is set on the cam to get it into the proper locked position.

 

[SuperJ]

question about the "click". I have not been pressing down on my bypass handle until it clicks, just enough that the weight of the bypass door holds it down. It's a two-step process to hear the "click", and I only do the first step. Reason being is that the dollar bill test indicated the door was fully closed after "step 1". When pressing it down to "step 2" (the click) the bypass door seemed to be shifting due to the cam action, and the dollar bill test indicates there are (small) gaps around the bypass door. Am I operating my bypass handle incorrectly by just allowing it to seal from its own weight? Stove performance is great in my opinion.

Mine does the same thing! If I use the full cam action the bypass shifts forward slightly and the back edge tips up, and will fail the dollar bill test. But if I let gravity and little tension on the bypass hold it, it seems to seal better. There is enough friction on the handle that I can apply about 1/3 the travel to full cam over and get a better seal. Full cam over and you can visibly see the back of the bypass lift up significantly. I'm guessing it's because the surface the bypass mates too must not be fully flat, or the bypass itself is not flat.

 

[twd000]

Mine does the same thing! If I use the full cam action the bypass shifts forward slightly and the back edge tips up, and will fail the dollar bill test. But if I let gravity and little tension on the bypass hold it, it seems to seal better. There is enough friction on the handle that I can apply about 1/3 the travel to full cam over and get a better seal. Full cam over and you can visibly see the back of the bypass lift up significantly. I'm guessing it's because the surface the bypass mates too must not be fully flat, or the bypass itself is not flat.

interesting that I'm not the only one. And you run your stove like this without problems? I have a bit more smoke coming out the chimney for the first 20 minutes than I would like to see, but I'm not sure I can attribute that to a incompletely-closed bypass.

 

[black smoke signals]

Just remember the BK Insert bypass is different from princess stove in how they are adjusted!

 

[RandyBoBandy]

It cleans itself anytime the thermostat is at medium or higher. You seem to have a cold firebox. I have to run, but here's a few possibilities:

1) Wet wood
2) Bypass not closing fully
3) Thermostat or air flapper not working right
4) Extremely poor draft

We can eliminate #4 because you'd have been asking why your room always fills with smoke when you start a fire.

I'm also ruling out #2 because I could heat my house and have clean glass with a dead cat (it just takes a lot more wood and more reloading).

Of the last two, wet wood is far and away the most likely. You can successfully heat with that stove using wet wood, but you need to operate it a bit differently (and buy a flue brush).

Late for work, I'll check in after. Could someone post the moisture meter/70F/fresh split litany for me?

Take a medium to large sized split indoors for a minimum 24 hours. Then split it again as close to center as possible. On one of the freshly exposed faces push the pins of your moisture meter into the wood parallel to the grain. Below 20% is what you are looking for. Below 18% is better. 15-16% is great. Anything over 20% is going to be a disappointing experience. More so with denser woods.

 

[ratsrepus]

this probably has nothing to do with what this thread is about, but here goes. my first post. I'm not a newby at wood burning. been doing it for 40 years. I have had 15 different stoves. recently my old dutch west junk went south on me. being that it was 17 years old I scrapped it and went with a BK princess. All I can say is WOW. Installed it in my 2 story 1800 ft shop and office. First burn was 14 hrs with large ash. I have read about BK's for many years and i guess what i have read is correct. I have a Jotul Oslo in the house and you can bet ILL be getting another BK to replace that next year. what a difference

 

[SuperJ]

interesting that I'm not the only one. And you run your stove like this without problems? I have a bit more smoke coming out the chimney for the first 20 minutes than I would like to see, but I'm not sure I can attribute that to a incompletely-closed bypass.

Mine seems to run ok, I've been meaning to inquire about it for a while.
Since there really isn't much of a pressure drop across the cat, I don't think the bypass seal is as important as the door seal. Just the weight of the bypass on the gasket is probably going to divert almost all the gases thru the cat. I'm not saying you should accept the defect if there is one though.

Based on your symptoms it's more likely the wood is the root cause of your issues. The kiln dried 2x6 test will reveal that.
My cat temperature is anywhere from 2-3oclock max, down to barely active. It doesn't reflect the heat output, since different stages of the burn rely more or less heavily on the cat. During periods of heavy off gassing, and low air intake settings the cat temp goes high, during later stages or sometimes when I turn up the air more of the combustion is occurring in the firebox and less in the cat so the temp goes down but stove output is still decent.

 

[twd000]

Mine seems to run ok, I've been meaning to inquire about it for a while.
Since there really isn't much of a pressure drop across the cat, I don't think the bypass seal is as important as the door seal. Just the weight of the bypass on the gasket is probably going to divert almost all the gases thru the cat. I'm not saying you should accept the defect if there is one though.

Based on your symptoms it's more likely the wood is the root cause of your issues. The kiln dried 2x6 test will reveal that.
My cat temperature is anywhere from 2-3oclock max, down to barely active. It doesn't reflect the heat output, since different stages of the burn rely more or less heavily on the cat. During periods of heavy off gassing, and low air intake settings the cat temp goes high, during later stages or sometimes when I turn up the air more of the combustion is occurring in the firebox and less in the cat so the temp goes down but stove output is still decent.

that cat probe behavior is similar to mine. Very active through the first 1/4 of the burn cycle, then dropping slowly to inactive after 8+ hours. As I mentioned, overall the stove runs great, and I agree that the bypass door pressure is probably enough.

I'll try to KD 2x6 test next time I make a run to Lowes. My wood has been drying top-covered for 18 months, but I can't guarantee it's all <20%.

 

[SuperJ]

If it's been top covered for 18months, I doubt my wood is any better than yours. I can get 24hrs+ on low without trying hard at all (caveat of a different free standing stove model).

The heat from that wood has to be going somewhere...
Can you do a smoke test around the edges of your shroud to see if a smouldering match gets it's smoke pulled inside(behind the shroud)?

I try and close my bypass as soon as I flames licking at the shield regardless of the cat temp probe position. It always takes off. Sometimes I crack the door to get it roaring, close the door, and then close the bypass for a supercharged fast takeoff. Your not leaving the stove on bypass for more than 15minutes are you?

 

[twd000]

If it's been top covered for 18months, I doubt my wood is any better than yours. I can get 24hrs+ on low without trying hard at all (caveat of a different free standing stove model).

The heat from that wood has to be going somewhere...
Can you do a smoke test around the edges of your shroud to see if a smouldering match gets it's smoke pulled inside(behind the shroud)?

I try and close my bypass as soon as I flames licking at the shield regardless of the cat temp probe position. It always takes off. Sometimes I crack the door to get it roaring, close the door, and then close the bypass for a supercharged fast takeoff. Your not leaving the stove on bypass for more than 15minutes are you?

I can get 24 hours burn time on low (in October or April) - but I rarely run that low b/c I need more heat in the house. I typically run the thermostat at about 30-50% setting, depending on outdoor temps.

My firebox volume is about 10% smaller than your Ashford 30.

I'll try the shroud test with a stick of incense this weekend. I do have a block-off plate, but I'm sure it's not perfectly air-tight.

 

[SuperJ]

I can get 24 hours burn time on low (in October or April) - but I rarely run that low b/c I need more heat in the house. I typically run the thermostat at about 30-50% setting, depending on outdoor temps.

My firebox volume is about 10% smaller than your Ashford 30.

I'll try the shroud test with a stick of incense this weekend. I do have a block-off plate, but I'm sure it's not perfectly air-tight.

If you can get 24hr burn times on low, I bet everything in in your firebox is fine (bypass, wood, thermostat, cat, etc).
I'd be looking externally...
Have you tried running with the convection deck installed (It will help direct the blower exhaust over the hottest part of the stove)? On a related note, does your shroud block the fans exhaust port on top?

 

[twd000]

If you can get 24hr burn times on low, I bet everything in in your firebox is fine (bypass, wood, thermostat, cat, etc).
I'd be looking externally...
Have you tried running with the convection deck installed (It will help direct the blower exhaust over the hottest part of the stove)? On a related note, does your shroud block the fans exhaust port on top?

my Princess is an insert, so the fans are built in (no external convection deck as an add-on). Sometimes I run the fans to quickly recover from a cold house, but mostly I don't use the fans. The shroud does not block the exhaust when I run the fans; I can feel the hot air blowing on my face.

I haven't figured out the fan's impact on efficiency. They certainly put out more BTU/hr at a given tstat setting, which shortens the burn time as you would expect.

 

[lsucet]

I have never been able to burn a full load on a short period of time like you guys with the BK. Last year I run my stove hard every weekend cause i was not there all the time, just on weekend most of the time. An old house along for a week or so. Every weekend I need to bring the house back to temp. 39 to 45 df inside. Never i went thru a full load of PINE that quick. With previous 3.2 cf stove without want to run it hard the burn time was maximum 5-6 hrs between reloads cause temp start dropping. Just enough coal to light up the next load. And using a mix of soft and hardwood.

I respect everybody opinion and i know every setup is different plus heat demand, but in those low single digit last year here, i had full nights sleep with this stove without worry of being off in AM and the house cold. every AM still giving some heat and plenty of big coals left. Most mornings I just rake the coals to the front and get at least two more hrs before reload. We talking easy 10/11/12 hrs. Never accomplished that with previous stoves plus keeping a good part of the house around 70 for the most part.

 

[SuperJ]

For a given heat output (say 20,000btu/hr) running the fans will be more efficient that running without. You'll have less heat wasted up the flue and behind the stove with the fans running.
BUT!, with the fans running you must run the thermostat at a lower setting for the same specific heat output. If you leave the stat setting the same, and turn on the fans you will get more heat, and maybe more efficiency, but you'll chew through your load at a much faster rate.

 

[twd000]

For a given heat output (say 20,000btu/hr) running the fans will be more efficient that running without. You'll have less heat wasted up the flue and behind the stove with the fans running.
BUT!, with the fans running you must run the thermostat at a lower setting for the same specific heat output. If you leave the stat setting the same, and turn on the fans you will get more heat, and maybe more efficiency, but you'll chew through your load at a much faster rate.

That makes sense. I guess my thinking is that for an interior masonry chimney, most of any heat into the masonry gets re-radiated back into the house eventually. Of course, some is lost to the outside, but I don't know how to quantify how much.

I'll try running with the fans on and a lower tstat setting this weekend through the cold snap and see how I make out.

 

[lsucet]

For a given heat output (say 20,000btu/hr) running the fans will be more efficient that running without. You'll have less heat wasted up the flue and behind the stove with the fans running.
BUT!, with the fans running you must run the thermostat at a lower setting for the same specific heat output. If you leave the stat setting the same, and turn on the fans you will get more heat, and maybe more efficiency, but you'll chew through your load at a much faster rate.

Sometimes for those of us with the fans, is better let the fans do their job, and YES, it requires to dial the stove dial lower. Nice statement. Experience burning with your setup will give you that. That's the reason i don't see the need to run at full throttle after the load is char and the stove has a good temp with my setup. I dial it down ( not too low) and let the fans take care the rest.

 

[Tar12]

this probably has nothing to do with what this thread is about, but here goes. my first post. I'm not a newby at wood burning. been doing it for 40 years. I have had 15 different stoves. recently my old dutch west junk went south on me. being that it was 17 years old I scrapped it and went with a BK princess. All I can say is WOW. Installed it in my 2 story 1800 ft shop and office. First burn was 14 hrs with large ash. I have read about BK's for many years and i guess what i have read is correct. I have a Jotul Oslo in the house and you can bet ILL be getting another BK to replace that next year. what a difference

Glad you are enjoying your new stove!