Blaze King Princess 29 versus Pacific Summit LE - Insert Replacement for Regency I3100L

[MR. GLO]

The new Summit is not less easy breathing. I can tell you that. We have less chimney than you do and had issues with our Summit trying to run away on us until I installed a damper. If you go Summit, please be aware that it does breath easily and you will likely need to do something about draft for that stove.

You can stop the runaway with a blower on a switch.

 

[davidmsem]

You can stop the runaway with a blower on a switch.

I always ran my Regency 3100 with the fan on and ran it on high when the temperature got to the high end of the range. It was fully choked, blower on. So it didn't run into the unhealthy range but I couldn't pull it back if I wanted to when running at the peak temperature.

 

[MR. GLO]

I always ran my Regency 3100 with the fan on and ran it on high when the temperature got to the high end of the range. It was fully choked, blower on. So it didn't run into the unhealthy range but I couldn't pull it back if I wanted to when running at the peak temperature.

are you checking it with a magnetic or auber stt? When I turn my blower at the rear on i can see the temp drop in 15 seconds or less and after 3 minutes or so a 100 degrees. Ill check the temp in a different spot (Front of stove) to make sure I'm not getting a false reading with the blower.

 

[davidmsem]

are you checking it with a magnetic or auber stt? When I turn my blower at the rear on i can see the temp drop in 15 seconds or less and after 3 minutes or so a 100 degrees. Ill check the temp in a different spot (Front of stove) to make sure I'm not getting a false reading with the blower.

I have a magnetic on there but I also have the laser. Yes the blower on high really brings it down quite a bit. I've had comfort running it because I could turn the fan on high. Most often after a full load I will run the fan high depending on the wood in there.

This is my concern about going to a Pacific Energy Summit LE insert, that it draws similar to my Regency 3100 and it too will overheat. The blaze king says they are comfortable to a 35-ft flu. Blaze King's more concerned about underdraft than overdraft based on my conversation from them. That leans me to the princess 29 insert. It's a good unit but I'm not sure if it'll have enough punch, don't like the idea of a recurring cost with a cat.

 

[begreen]

Blaze King's more concerned about underdraft than overdraft based on my conversation from them. That leans me to the princess 29 insert. It's a good unit but I'm not sure if it'll have enough punch, don't like the idea of a recurring cost with a cat.

That's surprising. It's usually the first thing that comes up when a BK has short burntimes. Search for manometer in the BK threads to see many discussions about the excess draft. Or search on Princess draft.

Unfortunately, the new manual for the Princess insert makes many references to a non-existent DRAFT section. It looks like that section didn't get in and someone missed this in proofreading. The older manuals had very specific draft ratings for these stoves.
This is from the draft section in the pre-2020 Princess insert manual:
This appliance may not operate properly if the draft is below .02” wc (water columns) as measured using a water manometer. Draft below .02” wc will cause excessive smoke spillage, incomplete combustion and fire startup problems. Draft ranging from .02" to .10" wc is suggested for normal operation. Low draft may sometimes be improved by making a chimney taller. Exterior chimneys may be too cold to achieve proper draft with these units. If an exterior masonry chimney is being used it should be lined with a listed stainless steel liner. An external factory built chimney should be enclosed in an insulated chase.

2021-2022 BK everything thread

First off, 900 stovetop should not be possible with the door closed. Most likely culprit is gaskets. Give it (another) good dollar bill test all the way around. If that's good, lay the door flat on something soft and try to slide the glass around in the door with the palms of your hands. If...

www.hearth.com

30' is a tall chimney. Has the draft been tested with the 3100 yet?

 

[davidmsem]

That's surprising. It's usually the first thing that comes up when a BK has short burntimes. Search for manometer in the BK threads to see many discussions about the excess draft. Or search on Princess draft.

Unfortunately, the new manual for the Princess insert makes many references to a non-existent DRAFT section. It looks like that section didn't get in and someone missed this in proofreading. The older manuals had very specific draft ratings for these stoves.
This is from the draft section in the pre-2020 Princess insert manual:
This appliance may not operate properly if the draft is below .02” wc (water columns) as measured using a water manometer. Draft below .02” wc will cause excessive smoke spillage, incomplete combustion and fire startup problems. Draft ranging from .02" to .10" wc is suggested for normal operation. Low draft may sometimes be improved by making a chimney taller. Exterior chimneys may be too cold to achieve proper draft with these units. If an exterior masonry chimney is being used it should be lined with a listed stainless steel liner. An external factory built chimney should be enclosed in an insulated chase.

2021-2022 BK everything thread

First off, 900 stovetop should not be possible with the door closed. Most likely culprit is gaskets. Give it (another) good dollar bill test all the way around. If that's good, lay the door flat on something soft and try to slide the glass around in the door with the palms of your hands. If...

www.hearth.com

30' is a tall chimney. Has the draft been tested with the 3100 yet?

Gentleman from BK on my call said "you will not overdraft our unit at 30' with an insulated liner (that's what I have)."

I will be draft testing on Monday as a meter is on it's way to me.

Seems like the BK princess 29is less of a breather than the PE Summit LE. That's why I'm leaning to the Blaze King princess 29right now. I don't like the BK princess 29 door (does not open 180 degrees), don't like the pressure fit door gasket (PE has piercing gasket design), don't like the look as much as the BK princess 29 don't like the slightly shorter box on the BK princess 29 (lots of 20" cuts on hand),

The ONLY way my 3100 overfired and developed cracks was because of a potential overdraft. Regency indicated last week that they are okay up to 35'. At that time I was hoping regency was going to provide me a LARGE unit to replace the LARGE unit that failed. They are only providing a MEDIUM unit.

 

[JonH]

Been away for a bit and am catching up. I installed a PI29 insert and now on my 3rd year. I try to heat a 3000 sf colonial and cannot do that. The floor plan for my 40 year old stick built just will not get sufficient heat upstairs to keep is warm. Easily have a 9 or 10 deg difference between levels. Couple of thoughts for you with regards to the Princess Insert (which I love).

NS loading, 20 in logs will fit but sometimes they get awfully close to the door. Also rarely do burners get a fully stuffed firebox that comes close to the maximum capacity. The difference between 2.6 and 3.0 cu ft is about 2.5 liquid gallons which probably works out to 1 or 2 more splits in the box. Obviously that is more wood, but is it enough on its own to make a decision. IDK? I rarely stuff my box and still easily get 12 hour burns, that suits my lifestyle and schedule.

I have a 28' insulated liner in a brick exterior chimney. I installed a manometer and my draft on high burn rarely gets below 0.18wc. I installed a key damper this fall and it basically did little to slow down the draft (my sensor measures just before the damper maybe that is an issue). Blaze King will not take a position on a damper since that is not part of the testing. What is done in the field is beyond their control. I installed an 8" sleeve with the damper and mated the liner to either side, ran the control to the front of the fireplace well above the insert surround. I will have to tinker with the damper arrangement this summer or even add a 2nd to achive the desired .08wc draft that the BK specs recommend.

Would I purchase the BK insert again --- no question yes. I also have no other experience with other stoves or inserts so please keep that in mind. Just thought that my experience may be somewhat similar to yours and hopfully this helps.

So if your insert is working then why worry with the manometer reading and dampers ? Is it to see if good can be great? Or are you just mechanically inclined with spare time on your hands? I’m curious bc I have a tall 30’ Chimney and predict I’ll have strong draft. I’m trying to research if the princess insert will be a good fit for me but I’m put off at the idea of having to fabricate and modify something that I just paid 7k to be installed.

 

[davidmsem]

So if your insert is working then why worry with the manometer reading and dampers ? Is it to see if good can be great? Or are you just mechanically inclined with spare time on your hands? I’m curious bc I have a tall 30’ Chimney and predict I’ll have strong draft. I’m trying to research if the princess insert will be a good fit for me but I’m put off at the idea of having to fabricate and modify something that I just paid 7k to be installed.

I'm not sure if this person's insert is working properly. They are struggling to heat the space they talk about. Not sure what their burn times are etc etc.

I don't think it's a bad idea to get good measurements on your unit, I wouldn't describe that as mechanically inclined with spare Time on their hands. I wish I had done this research 7 years ago before I installed my unit. I have a 7-year-old Regency 3100L that developed noticeable cracks this season. Had I taken the time to really understand what was going on with my fireplace insert 7 years ago I would have known that the draft was too strong and that with full loads of wood that burn hot this thing was overheating. Slowly robbing life from the unit and creating an absolute headache for me. So I don't think it's an issue of making good great as you characterize it, it's taking the time to really understand how your unit is functioning.

What you are more likely to find is somebody will take your 7K and install a unit that will have too high a draft and it will not function properly and not have a long life. Spending the 7K just means you made someone happy. Doesn't guarantee they did a good install or researched what your situation truly was like. My experience with an installer that really didn't care is proof enough for me that everything people write about in this forum is true, that you have to get involved and you have to understand cuz most people just want to grab your money and run.

It's easy to be comfortable thinking someone else is really going to take care of you during the install because you paid lots of money. That will have nothing to do with the quality of the outcome is my experience. I resisted doing all this extra work because it's truly a pain. Now that I have done it I just can't imagine anybody installing a unit without these measurements. Even local dealers here don't want to listen to the fact that I am over drafting. And I want to do the job right which would be install some sort of damper or reach out to the manufacturers and find out exactly what needs to get done. I don't even mind if it costs extra money to get the install right.

Yes I am mechanically inclined and yes I have spare time, but those weren't reasons to make sure my draft was correct. They are insurance that the $7,000 you are spending is indeed well spent.

It's been a horror show of warranty claim issues and searching for a unit to replace one that was perfectly suited and failed because of overdraft.

My advice is proceed with caution. Do your homework.

 

[bholler]

I'm not sure if this person's insert is working properly. They are struggling to heat the space they talk about. Not sure what their burn times are etc etc.

I don't think it's a bad idea to get good measurements on your unit, I wouldn't describe that as mechanically inclined with spare Time on their hands. I wish I had done this research 7 years ago before I installed my unit. I have a 7-year-old Regency 3100L that developed noticeable cracks this season. Had I taken the time to really understand what was going on with my fireplace insert 7 years ago I would have known that the draft was too strong and that with full loads of wood that burn hot this thing was overheating. Slowly robbing life from the unit and creating an absolute headache for me. So I don't think it's an issue of making good great as you characterize it, it's taking the time to really understand how your unit is functioning.

What you are more likely to find is somebody will take your 7K and install a unit that will have too high a draft and it will not function properly and not have a long life. Spending the 7K just means you made someone happy. Doesn't guarantee they did a good install or researched what your situation truly was like. My experience with an installer that really didn't care is proof enough for me that everything people write about in this forum is true, that you have to get involved and you have to understand cuz most people just want to grab your money and run.

It's easy to be comfortable thinking someone else is really going to take care of you during the install because you paid lots of money. That will have nothing to do with the quality of the outcome is my experience. I resisted doing all this extra work because it's truly a pain. Now that I have done it I just can't imagine anybody installing a unit without these measurements. Even local dealers here don't want to listen to the fact that I am over drafting. And I want to do the job right which would be install some sort of damper or reach out to the manufacturers and find out exactly what needs to get done. I don't even mind if it costs extra money to get the install right.

Yes I am mechanically inclined and yes I have spare time, but those weren't reasons to make sure my draft was correct. They are insurance that the $7,000 you are spending is indeed well spent.

It's been a horror show of warranty claim issues and searching for a unit to replace one that was perfectly suited and failed because of overdraft.

My advice is proceed with caution. Do your homework.

Very well said

 

[JonH]

I'm not sure if this person's insert is working properly. They are struggling to heat the space they talk about. Not sure what their burn times are etc etc.

I don't think it's a bad idea to get good measurements on your unit, I wouldn't describe that as mechanically inclined with spare Time on their hands. I wish I had done this research 7 years ago before I installed my unit. I have a 7-year-old Regency 3100L that developed noticeable cracks this season. Had I taken the time to really understand what was going on with my fireplace insert 7 years ago I would have known that the draft was too strong and that with full loads of wood that burn hot this thing was overheating. Slowly robbing life from the unit and creating an absolute headache for me. So I don't think it's an issue of making good great as you characterize it, it's taking the time to really understand how your unit is functioning.

What you are more likely to find is somebody will take your 7K and install a unit that will have too high a draft and it will not function properly and not have a long life. Spending the 7K just means you made someone happy. Doesn't guarantee they did a good install or researched what your situation truly was like. My experience with an installer that really didn't care is proof enough for me that everything people write about in this forum is true, that you have to get involved and you have to understand cuz most people just want to grab your money and run.

It's easy to be comfortable thinking someone else is really going to take care of you during the install because you paid lots of money. That will have nothing to do with the quality of the outcome is my experience. I resisted doing all this extra work because it's truly a pain. Now that I have done it I just can't imagine anybody installing a unit without these measurements. Even local dealers here don't want to listen to the fact that I am over drafting. And I want to do the job right which would be install some sort of damper or reach out to the manufacturers and find out exactly what needs to get done. I don't even mind if it costs extra money to get the install right.

Yes I am mechanically inclined and yes I have spare time, but those weren't reasons to make sure my draft was correct. They are insurance that the $7,000 you are spending is indeed well spent.

It's been a horror show of warranty claim issues and searching for a unit to replace one that was perfectly suited and failed because of overdraft.

My advice is proceed with caution. Do your homework.

I was asking the other guy bc he said he was happy with his unit and had good burn times, some people like tinkering and I totally get that. It wasn’t meant as an insult. You said you avoided doing all this work for years bc it was such a pain, but then u said that it doesn’t sound mechanically inclined or someone with extra time on their hands. I didn’t mean to sound like spending the 7k would mean I had a quality install. What I meant by that was after spending that kind of money I don’t want to have to do metal fabrication on my own and pressure testing, I would have hoped that it was already done but I know it probably won’t be. I have asked 4 or 5 different installers in NC and VA and none of them have ever installed a Block off plate or added a damper to an insert. The most I’ve heard is one said he stuffs Roxul around pipe. I really want an insert but I’m not loving the idea of spending 7k on an insert and then having to buy all this crap and custom make dampers and monitor pressure bc I can’t find a competent installer. I am handy with a lot of stuff but this is sounding a bit ridiculous. I just want it to work and not have to learn how to be a certified sweep.

 

[davidmsem]

Understand.

I did not want to take on extra as well, but I have yet to find a competent installer.

My guess is I will be installing my new unit myself once it is chosen and delivered.

 

[JonH]

Understand.

I did not want to take on extra as well, but I have yet to find a competent installer.

My guess is I will be installing my new unit myself once it is chosen and delivered.

I would love to do mine but my house and chimney look a lot like yours and I don’t do heights lol. I even called and talked to the rental store about renting a boom truck or a lift but I never followed through with it. Keep us updated on your pressure readings and any other user info you have

 

[begreen]

I suspect that if you had a probe thermometer in flue output, above a damper if one is installed, the effect of the high draft would have been evident in elevated temperatures. That could be a better tool for long-term operation.

 

[EbS-P]

I suspect that if you had a probe thermometer in flue output, above a damper if one is installed, the effect of the high draft would have been evident in elevated temperatures. That could be a better tool for long-term operation.

Would you ever recommend to drill the liner so the probe can be further away from the insert or install in the probe in the adapter?

 

[davidmsem]

I suspect that if you had a probe thermometer in flue output, above a damper if one is installed, the effect of the high draft would have been evident in elevated temperatures. That could be a better tool for long-term operation.

Thank you. What types of temperatures are acceptable as a maximum? And do they make remote reading sensors as this is an insert? Reliability and accuracy would be a concern with any measurements.

 

[brenndatomu]

And do they make remote reading sensors as this is an insert? Reliability and accuracy would be a concern with any measurements.

There are several threads going here right now on use of an Auber digital thermometer...that's what you'd want to use.
Search Auber AT200...

 

[bholler]

Would you ever recommend to drill the liner so the probe can be further away from the insert or install in the probe in the adapter?

I have generally just used a ring sensor attached with a screw. And no you absolutely should not drill the liner

 

[davidmsem]

Damper is placed in and first experiment run. The damper physical size is about 5 and 1/2 in and it can't close 100% because it hits the liner. But it looks like it gets about 80% blocked from the picture. Ran a small fire and it was reasonably steady between 0.17 and 0.19 in of water with the damper fully opened. Turning a damper is closed as I could get it it dropped draft 0.14 to 0.16, about a 17% reduction.

So I don't believe a damper is going to do the job here. Can the last approximate 20% of area cause that big of a drop in output?

The probe was inserted below the baffle.

Any thoughts this initial test is discouraging in the search for a solution to a high drafting flu.

Any thoughts that the unit might be defective?

 

[bholler]

Damper is placed in and first experiment run. The damper physical size is about 5 and 1/2 in and it can't close 100% because it hits the liner. But it looks like it gets about 80% blocked from the picture. Ran a small fire and it was reasonably steady between 0.17 and 0.19 in of water with the damper fully opened. Turning a damper is closed as I could get it it dropped draft 0.14 to 0.16, about a 17% reduction.

So I don't believe a damper is going to do the job here. Can the last approximate 20% of area cause that big of a drop in output?

The probe was inserted below the baffle.

Any thoughts this initial test is discouraging in the search for a solution to a high drafting flu.

Any thoughts that the unit might be defective?

View attachment 293550 View attachment 293551 View attachment 293552 View attachment 293553

A defective unit wouldn't cause high draft. Actually air leaks would reduce your draft measurement. If that damper doesn't reduce it enough start closing off holes in the center

 

[davidmsem]

A defective unit wouldn't cause high draft. Actually air leaks would reduce your draft measurement. If that damper doesn't reduce it enough start closing off holes in the center

Thanks think I posted this in the wrong thread.

 

[bholler]

Thanks think I posted this in the wrong thread.

It doesn't matter which of your threads really

 

[davidmsem]

I have no reason to believe the draft is not under control. The unit would cruise right in its sweet spot for an hour, hour and a half and slowly come down. New dealers and installers that I've talked with say there's absolutely nothing wrong with my setup and they would install it per the manufacturer's recommendation. Nothing about my setup is different they and do tons of two-story colonials just like mine.

But thank you.

"I have no reason to believe the draft is not under control." davidmsem direct quote.

"I had no reason to believe that draft was not under control until I actually measured it." davidmsem direct quote a few days later.

 

[BKVP]

That's surprising. It's usually the first thing that comes up when a BK has short burntimes. Search for manometer in the BK threads to see many discussions about the excess draft. Or search on Princess draft.

Unfortunately, the new manual for the Princess insert makes many references to a non-existent DRAFT section. It looks like that section didn't get in and someone missed this in proofreading. The older manuals had very specific draft ratings for these stoves.
This is from the draft section in the pre-2020 Princess insert manual:
This appliance may not operate properly if the draft is below .02” wc (water columns) as measured using a water manometer. Draft below .02” wc will cause excessive smoke spillage, incomplete combustion and fire startup problems. Draft ranging from .02" to .10" wc is suggested for normal operation. Low draft may sometimes be improved by making a chimney taller. Exterior chimneys may be too cold to achieve proper draft with these units. If an exterior masonry chimney is being used it should be lined with a listed stainless steel liner. An external factory built chimney should be enclosed in an insulated chase.

2021-2022 BK everything thread

First off, 900 stovetop should not be possible with the door closed. Most likely culprit is gaskets. Give it (another) good dollar bill test all the way around. If that's good, lay the door flat on something soft and try to slide the glass around in the door with the palms of your hands. If...

www.hearth.com

30' is a tall chimney. Has the draft been tested with the 3100 yet?

There was no omission. Customers were chasing a specific draft value for their own particular installation. For example, saying .04 w.c., folks would tune their chimneys to reach this value. And in many, far too many, .04 didn't work! Some paid to reduce chimney draft while others took measures and paid to increase draft. That specific value did not take into account user interface and each unique installation.

Once we implemented the minimum "15'" of chimney length, it help a great deal. Of course their are still cases where the minimum of 15' is still not enough. So for one particular install that comes to mind, 15' did result in .04-.05 w.c." However, when the customer opened the door, there was spillage into the room. So the customer added a 2' section of Class A and the draft changed minimally, but there was no additional spillage.

As I have posted dozens of times, as have any others......"Each installation is unique and your mileage may vary!"

Thanks
BKVP

 

[begreen]

It seems the opposite case of the upper limit, like in a two story home, that is more in question, i.e.: once the chimney gets to be over 25' tall. What is ok for the Princess insert? The Ashford manual says .05" on high burn. The Princess insert manual does not provide specifics, but in the Troubleshooting section it refers to the missing "Chimney Drafts" and "Drafts" section and measure using a manometer, but no spec. Maybe this section is legacy and didn't get updated?

I do see in the catalyst issues under the problem, "Crumbling", where the upper limit of .06" is suggested. Is that what the OP should go by?

 

[stoveliker]

I concur: there is an omission when the manual refers to a section that is no longer part of the manual. Whether it is an omission of the section or an omission of the deletion of said reference.