Blaze King Princess 29 versus Pacific Summit LE - Insert Replacement for Regency I3100L

[davidmsem]

I'm not sure how the 3.0 cu ft firebox came up for the 3100. I suspect this is old accounting where the entire firebox was measured, including over the baffle. The 3100 has a fairly shallow firebox. Since the 2020 EPA regs came out manufacturers have been better about the actual usable size of the firebox., probably because it is now published in the EPA testing report.

Thank you. I guess I could physically measure and see what I come up with. That probably makes the stated size of the Pacific Energy LE at 3.0 even more significant in terms of packing a punch. The shape of the 2450 box is very square, and I have many 20-in logs, approximately 14 cord worth, that would have to be trimmed. I don't even want to begin to count how many logs that is.

I bet cutting each one of those bunches of those I'll just be remembering this experience, a nightmare that just won't end.

 

[begreen]

The 2450 is still more of an E/W loader, though less so than the 3100. The Summit firebox is definitely squarer than either.

 

[davidmsem]

I'm not sure how the 3.0 cu ft firebox came up for the 3100. I suspect this is old accounting where the entire firebox was measured, including over the baffle. The 3100 has a fairly shallow firebox. Since the 2020 EPA regs came out manufacturers have been better about the actual usable size of the firebox., probably because it is now published in the EPA testing report.

Plot thickens. Got a link to the epa report on the PE website for the summit LE. The EPA does not agree with the advertised firebox size if I read this correctly.



Which makes the blaze King larger.... Also from EPA report.....

"Valley Comfort Systems Inc. retained OMNI to perform U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
(EPA) certification testing on the Blaze King PI29 wood-burning fireplace insert. The Blaze
King PI29 inser is a catalytic-type room heater. The firebox is constructed of mild steel. Usable
firebox volume was measured to be 2.6 cubic feet and the stove is vented through 6” collar
located on the top of the appliance."

 

[DuaeGuttae]

When we were researching stoves and inserts, the best way that I could find for understanding the firebox was to have actual people give me actual measurements with a ruler. I remember that there was one stove we were looking at that sounded like it was a good size but when the dealer measured the box, it was really a lot smaller, and we knocked it off the list for just that reason.

It occurs to me that perhaps you have the option of seeing these various stoves in person and doing your own measuring. That would be the best. We did not have that option in our location in Texas without extensive driving, so we handled a lot by email and phone and private messages on this forum.

It looks like you have actual measurements above, though I don’t understand the 1, 2, and 3 part. Maybe I need a second cup of coffee this morning.

I don’t live in North Texas, by the way, so there aren’t any stove dealers in our immediate area. We drove five hours or so to pick up our insert a couple of years ago, and our installer drove five hours (from a different place) to do the work for us. We are close to San Antonio but northwest of there up in the hills which makes our temperatures lower. We’ve done a lot of work insulating and air sealing our house, but it has a large amount of cubic footage, numerous large windows, and sits on an uninsulated slab. It can feel quite chilly when it’s cool outside and there’s no sun, and we use the stove a lot in winter. We also let it go out for up to a week at a time when the weather is warm. We just lit it up yesterday for the first time in a while because it was gray and in the 40’s all morning, and the temperature was dropping in the house. It’s been a roller coaster here this winter, and we adjust our stove use accordingly.

 

[davidmsem]

When we were researching stoves and inserts, the best way that I could find for understanding the firebox was to have actual people give me actual measurements with a ruler. I remember that there was one stove we were looking at that sounded like it was a good size but when the dealer measured the box, it was really a lot smaller, and we knocked it off the list for just that reason.

It occurs to me that perhaps you have the option of seeing these various stoves in person and doing your own measuring. That would be the best. We did not have that option in our location in Texas without extensive driving, so we handled a lot by email and phone and private messages on this forum.

It looks like you have actual measurements above, though I don’t understand the 1, 2, and 3 part. Maybe I need a second cup of coffee this morning.

I don’t live in North Texas, by the way, so there aren’t any stove dealers in our immediate area. We drove five hours or so to pick up our insert a couple of years ago, and our installer drove five hours (from a different place) to do the work for us. We are close to San Antonio but northwest of there up in the hills which makes our temperatures lower. We’ve done a lot of work insulating and air sealing our house, but it has a large amount of cubic footage, numerous large windows, and sits on an uninsulated slab. It can feel quite chilly when it’s cool outside and there’s no sun, and we use the stove a lot in winter. We also let it go out for up to a week at a time when the weather is warm. We just lit it up yesterday for the first time in a while because it was gray and in the 40’s all morning, and the temperature was dropping in the house. It’s been a roller coaster here this winter, and we adjust our stove use accordingly.

As far as the part 1 part 2 part 3 in the determination of the area, which confused you before coffee, basically it's not a perfect square so they measured the piece parts. That's how I guess that what they were trying to do.

Yes I do have the option of going to visit dealers and I did visit one today and measured the Pacific energy box myself and it is indeed not 3.0 but 2.6 exactly which is what the EPA measured. My first pass at the calculations I came up with 2.6. so as others have indicated the 3.0 is probably the full volume including the baffle and the like. So more realistically it's 2.6.

It is very interesting to me that the most transparent company in terms of these numbers appears to be blaze King from the little bit I have looked at. Their numbers match the EPA testing documents. They don't overstate anything. It probably says something about the company culture as well.

Texas is great. I hate to say it but I would probably fit in politically more in Texas than I do in Connecticut.

Thank you for your response. I'm learning more and I think I'll have some additional interesting posts in the coming days or weeks based on other stuff I'm learning.

 

[begreen]

This comes up a few times a year. I posted measurements several years ago in one of those threads. Our firebox is too hot to measure again right now, but IIRC it came out to be around 2.7 cu ft. actual useable space. It's setup for 19" wood, N/S loading but this year I have burned several 20" splits. It's 21" to the glass.

 

[davidmsem]

This comes up a few times a year. I posted measurements several years ago in one of those threads. Our firebox is too hot to measure again right now, but IIRC it came out to be around 2.7 cu ft. actual useable space. It's setup for 19" wood, N/S loading but this year I have burned several 20" splits. It's 21" to the glass.

Thank you. Again the Pacific Energy Summit LE measured at 2.6 by my measures consisted with the EPA. Is this what you are running begreen, a Summit LE?

Got an email today for specific energy saying they don't like the flu over 20 ft. Wow. I wonder why they don't put that limitation and specification on their literature? I wonder if it would suppress sales? That said two dealers in the area say they install Pacific Energy summits LE well over 20 and often 30 ft. Both refused to install a damper if they did my install because there is nothing in their literature that says to do so. And they want it signed off by the building inspector.

Curious your input. Appreciate it.

 

[begreen]

Thank you. Again the Pacific Energy Summit LE measured at 2.6 by my measures consisted with the EPA. Is this what you are running begreen, a Summit LE?

Alderlea T6 has the same firebox as the Summit. There is a 2" bottom lip at the front of the firebox. My guess is they were measuring to the inside edge. 20" splits will overlap the lip by an inch. Our flue system is 20' straight up. I have never heard anyone from PE make that statement. It's a little absurd because it would cut out almost all 2 story installations. A couple of years ago I helped a neighbor put in a T6 in their colonial. It has a 25' flue, straight up and works well. But I agree that 28-30' is pushing it. In that case I would consider reducing the intake air enough to keep the stove tame and would block off the boost air.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

How long is your wood cut again, @davidmsem?

If you measure your current firebox, what do you come up with for volume? I’ve always read that it’s harder to load an East/West loading stove as full as a similar volume North/South loading one, but I’ve never experienced a predominately E/W loader. Both inserts we’ve owned have had pretty square fireboxes, and we load both ways at times but generally prefer N/S for convenience.

Edited to add: Does PE specify any maximum or minimum draft in their literature? That would be useful information.

 

[begreen]

You are right. It is hard to pack an E/W loader due to concerns about the wood rolling up against the glass. This is not an issue with a N/S loader. Having run both I definitely prefer a N/S loader.

Edited to add: Does PE specify any maximum or minimum draft in their literature? That would be useful information.

They do not. I have helped install a Summit on a marginal 12' flue and a T6 on the aforementioned 25' flue. Both stoves have performed well over multiple seasons.

 

[davidmsem]

How long is your wood cut again, @davidmsem?

If you measure your current firebox, what do you come up with for volume? I’ve always read that it’s harder to load an East/West loading stove as full as a similar volume North/South loading one, but I’ve never experienced a predominately E/W loader. Both inserts we’ve owned have had pretty square fireboxes, and we load both ways at times but generally prefer N/S for convenience.

Edited to add: Does PE specify any maximum or minimum draft in their literature? That would be useful information.

How long is your wood cut again, @davidmsem?

If you measure your current firebox, what do you come up with for volume? I’ve always read that it’s harder to load an East/West loading stove as full as a similar volume North/South loading one, but I’ve never experienced a predominately E/W loader. Both inserts we’ve owned have had pretty square fireboxes, and we load both ways at times but generally prefer N/S for convenience.

Edited to add: Does PE specify any maximum or minimum draft in their literature.

The 3100 Regency accommodated a 22-in log. In rough terms I aimed for 20 in using my 20-in chainsaw bar as a measure. So there's everything in there from 22 to 16 say. But lots of twenties.

I too think it's easier to load a north-south stove, which will it allow me to get even more wood in which is more BTU and more susceptibility to overheating.

Written back to Pacific energy and told them to disconnect them experiencing between them and the dealerships. They only want to install per the specifications and directions they are given and nothing mentions dampers. They don't want to be exposed to liability or failing a building inspection. The inserts don't even have holes in the face plates for dampers. No direction has been provided to the dealerships.

Pacific energy said my flu should be measured but they did not provide specifications. Email I did ask that they specify what maximum value their stove can tolerate. This is really hard to do right. I don't know what most consumers end up doing but I bet they are not doing all this.

I'm assuming the measurements I'm going to get from the 3100 will be higher than any of the EPA stoves that are on the market now. I'm assuming they're a little bit less air breathing in comparison to what I have. But I don't know. I would be surprised if they draft more than what I have.

Appreciate the help this has been a stressful period.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

I’m sure it has been stressful, and it doesn’t help not to be able to access important information easily. The good news is that, even though it’s a lot of work right now, you are gathering information that is going to help you have the safest and most efficient installation going forward.

If the Summit does end up being a workable alternative, it sounds like a good portion of your 14 cords of wood would already fit. That’s a nice silver lining. I wonder if the metal shop where you discussed a custom surround would be able to fit up a damper lever, too, if your draft measurements show that it would be necessary to meet specifications.

 

[davidmsem]

I’m sure it has been stressful, and it doesn’t help not to be able to access important information easily. The good news is that, even though it’s a lot of work right now, you are gathering information that is going to help you have the safest and most efficient installation going forward.

If the Summit does end up being a workable alternative, it sounds like a good portion of your 14 cords of wood would already fit. That’s a nice silver lining. I wonder if the metal shop where you discussed a custom surround would be able to fit up a damper lever, too, if your draft measurements show that it would be necessary to meet specifications.

Thanks, that's a good positive thought. I do wish the industry helped a little more with better information. How many people out there have a Pacific energy Summit LE installed in the flu over 20 ft and don't know that's against the recommendation of Pacific energy unless you've taken measurements to determine if you need the damper? And curious what percent of the installed units with flues over 20 ft were never tested. Manufacturers have this information why isn't in the specification list? That's very important information they are omitting. I'm certain it would affect sales.

 

[spudman99]

Been away for a bit and am catching up. I installed a PI29 insert and now on my 3rd year. I try to heat a 3000 sf colonial and cannot do that. The floor plan for my 40 year old stick built just will not get sufficient heat upstairs to keep is warm. Easily have a 9 or 10 deg difference between levels. Couple of thoughts for you with regards to the Princess Insert (which I love).

NS loading, 20 in logs will fit but sometimes they get awfully close to the door. Also rarely do burners get a fully stuffed firebox that comes close to the maximum capacity. The difference between 2.6 and 3.0 cu ft is about 2.5 liquid gallons which probably works out to 1 or 2 more splits in the box. Obviously that is more wood, but is it enough on its own to make a decision. IDK? I rarely stuff my box and still easily get 12 hour burns, that suits my lifestyle and schedule.

I have a 28' insulated liner in a brick exterior chimney. I installed a manometer and my draft on high burn rarely gets below 0.18wc. I installed a key damper this fall and it basically did little to slow down the draft (my sensor measures just before the damper maybe that is an issue). Blaze King will not take a position on a damper since that is not part of the testing. What is done in the field is beyond their control. I installed an 8" sleeve with the damper and mated the liner to either side, ran the control to the front of the fireplace well above the insert surround. I will have to tinker with the damper arrangement this summer or even add a 2nd to achive the desired .08wc draft that the BK specs recommend.

Would I purchase the BK insert again --- no question yes. I also have no other experience with other stoves or inserts so please keep that in mind. Just thought that my experience may be somewhat similar to yours and hopfully this helps.

 

[davidmsem]

Been away for a bit and am catching up. I installed a PI29 insert and now on my 3rd year. I try to heat a 3000 sf colonial and cannot do that. The floor plan for my 40 year old stick built just will not get sufficient heat upstairs to keep is warm. Easily have a 9 or 10 deg difference between levels. Couple of thoughts for you with regards to the Princess Insert (which I love).

NS loading, 20 in logs will fit but sometimes they get awfully close to the door. Also rarely do burners get a fully stuffed firebox that comes close to the maximum capacity. The difference between 2.6 and 3.0 cu ft is about 2.5 liquid gallons which probably works out to 1 or 2 more splits in the box. Obviously that is more wood, but is it enough on its own to make a decision. IDK? I rarely stuff my box and still easily get 12 hour burns, that suits my lifestyle and schedule.

I have a 28' insulated liner in a brick exterior chimney. I installed a manometer and my draft on high burn rarely gets below 0.18wc. I installed a key damper this fall and it basically did little to slow down the draft (my sensor measures just before the damper maybe that is an issue). Blaze King will not take a position on a damper since that is not part of the testing. What is done in the field is beyond their control. I installed an 8" sleeve with the damper and mated the liner to either side, ran the control to the front of the fireplace well above the insert surround. I will have to tinker with the damper arrangement this summer or even add a 2nd to achive the desired .08wc draft that the BK specs recommend.

Would I purchase the BK insert again --- no question yes. I also have no other experience with other stoves or inserts so please keep that in mind. Just thought that my experience may be somewhat similar to yours and hopfully this helps.

Thank you for the time and your thoughtful input.

In the morning there is at least a 10° difference between upstairs and downstairs, but typically in the 60s upstairs which is good for sleeping. On the fire is going there's probably more than 10°, as the downstairs can get in the high eighties while the upstairs remains in the 60s. That said the heat never went on in the main body of my home this winter.

Have to further investigation I did find out the Pacific energy Summit le has a 2.6 cubic foot box not the 3.0 as advertised. So these are apples to apples in terms of loading. I hear your point on how small the difference is.

It seems like the BTUs will eventually get out of the princess but over a longer period of time compared to the Pacific energy Summit Le. So the user experience would be I generally cooler home in the really cold periods of winter, although it might be more comfortable downstairs with the slower dispersion of heat.

It's just interesting what is not published in specifications things like draft requirements and chimney heights and use of dampers etc. I think this is a pretty glaring omission, but if I was in the industry I would not publish this information unless I was required by law. Who's going to be the first company to hurt their sales by publishing this information? It's probably cheaper to just deal with the warranty claims than to be transparent about all the requirements of these units.

I went and confirmed today that I have 30 ft of flu, remeasuring The sweep that I use in the chimney.

 

[spudman99]

Response provided on your other thread

 

[stoveliker]

So, in the coldest part of the winter, how fast did you have to reload?

@spudman99 how fast is the fastest time you could burn down a full (-ish; I read your post) load in the Princess insert?

Given the more or less similar efficiencies, that should give a handle on the heat output comparison for at least the Princess versus his current (tly broken) insert.

 

[davidmsem]

So, in the coldest part of the winter, how fast did you have to reload?

@spudman99 how fast is the fastest time you could burn down a full (-ish; I read your post) load in the Princess insert?

Given the more or less similar efficiencies, that should give a handle on the heat output comparison for at least the Princess versus his current (tly broken) insert.

My wife would get up around 6:00 a.m. and make fill the box of the best of her ability. Somewhere between noon and 2:00 I would throw in a few more pieces to keep mid heat out of the unit until around 8:00 p.m. when I would fill the unit for the overnight burn.

I would say more than 90% of the time the Regency i-3100 has been run fully choked. Only with partial load is it ever run some would open.

I believe my average total use of firewood is about 2.5 cord per year. The house is well insulated. The heat never goes on in the main house. The room over the garage and the heater in the garage would go on when temps got into the twenties and lower.

My guess is the princess i29 is not the type of unit to reload in the middle of the day or burn and push it.

I'm also thinking I will get a similar experience from the Pacific energy Summit Le insert in terms of how the house is heated.

 

[brenndatomu]

My wife would get up around 6:00 a.m. and make fill the box of the best of her ability. Somewhere between noon and 2:00 I would throw in a few more pieces to keep mid heat out of the unit until around 8:00 p.m. when I would fill the unit for the overnight burn.

I would say more than 90% of the time the Regency i-3100 has been run fully choked. Only with partial load is it ever run some would open.

I believe my average total use of firewood is about 2.5 cord per year. The house is well insulated. The heat never goes on in the main house. The room over the garage and the heater in the garage would go on when temps got into the twenties and lower.

My guess is the princess i29 is not the type of unit to reload in the middle of the day or burn and push it.

I'm also thinking I will get a similar experience from the Pacific energy Summit Le insert in terms of how the house is heated.

If you were only using 2.5 cord/year in the old stove, then I'm sure you could easily push more than that through the BK, if needed...so using that logic you don't really need a extra large stove. Does that make sense?
The other point that comes to mind is that people get hung up on heating totally wood on the coldest day of the year (not saying that you are doing this) instead of sizing for the best size stove for the majority of the winter weather...

 

[stoveliker]

But then I don't really understand the "can this (smaller) firebox heat my home?" questions. If you did not run it fully open (in fact, you ran it mostly fully choked) you were *nowhere near* the max BTU output of the stove. The focus on this max (which will likely indeed be higher for the PE) is therefore not all that relevant, I think.

The princess (or any BK stove) can be run wide open. I heard someone saying a 30 box (2.9 -> "3" cu ft) can be burned down in 3-5 hrs (or, indeed, for 24+ hrs in shoulder seasons). Folks in AK run them full blast for weeks at a time. (And yes, one can reload a BK in the middle of the day and push it; if it's cold, my evening reload won't last until next evening - instead I get 10-16 hr burn times overnight. Given that I want to reload at 10-ish pm, I often do a partial load during the day. Given that this happens when it's cold, yes, I'm pushing it a bit then - but nowhere near AK folks or the one telling me "3-5 hour burn down (=max BTU per hour output) can be done".)

That said, I'm *not* pushing for a BK; it appears to me you'll likely be happier with the PE begreen advised you to consider as that's what you are used to. And that is what matters most; that you like looking at it, like burning it, and like how it operates.

My point here is that I think there is no need to fret about the max output, to fret about the BTUs, as you didn't need the max output in your current insert either...

If you ran that thing choked down, then a slightly smaller box won't be a big problem. You had reloads in 10 hours (8 pm to 6 am). Maybe that'd become 8 hours in the coldest part of winter for a 2.6 cu ft firebox? (I don't think this is likely; because the 10 hours was "minimum output". ) Regardless, to me that's still a mighty fine sleeping schedule.

edit: I see brenndatomu posted something similar just 5 secs before me; I was responding to the OP, not to brenndatomu

 

[begreen]

Response provided on your other thread

Yes, there are two threads on essentially the same topic here. It's redundant. Threads merged.

 

[davidmsem]

If you were only using 2.5 cord/year in the old stove, then I'm sure you could easily push more than that through the BK, if needed...so using that logic you don't really need a extra large stove. Does that make sense?
The other point that comes to mind is that people get hung up on heating totally wood on the coldest day of the year (not saying that you are doing this) instead of sizing for the best size stove for the majority of the winter weather...

Completely makes sense thank you.

 

[davidmsem]

But then I don't really understand the "can this (smaller) firebox heat my home?" questions. If you did not run it fully open (in fact, you ran it mostly fully choked) you were *nowhere near* the max BTU output of the stove. The focus on this max (which will likely indeed be higher for the PE) is therefore not all that relevant, I think.

The princess (or any BK stove) can be run wide open. I heard someone saying a 30 box (2.9 -> "3" cu ft) can be burned down in 3-5 hrs (or, indeed, for 24+ hrs in shoulder seasons). Folks in AK run them full blast for weeks at a time. (And yes, one can reload a BK in the middle of the day and push it; if it's cold, my evening reload won't last until next evening - instead I get 10-16 hr burn times overnight. Given that I want to reload at 10-ish pm, I often do a partial load during the day. Given that this happens when it's cold, yes, I'm pushing it a bit then - but nowhere near AK folks or the one telling me "3-5 hour burn down (=max BTU per hour output) can be done".)

That said, I'm *not* pushing for a BK; it appears to me you'll likely be happier with the PE begreen advised you to consider as that's what you are used to. And that is what matters most; that you like looking at it, like burning it, and like how it operates.

My point here is that I think there is no need to fret about the max output, to fret about the BTUs, as you didn't need the max output in your current insert either...

If you ran that thing choked down, then a slightly smaller box won't be a big problem. You had reloads in 10 hours (8 pm to 6 am). Maybe that'd become 8 hours in the coldest part of winter for a 2.6 cu ft firebox? (I don't think this is likely; because the 10 hours was "minimum output". ) Regardless, to me that's still a mighty fine sleeping schedule.

edit: I see brenndatomu posted something similar just 5 secs before me; I was responding to the OP, not to brenndatomu

Thank you for the thoughtful response.

The 3100 insert had to be run choked on fully. Even choked down all the way with the draft I experienced it would run up to the high end of the safe range temperature wise. Opening it up would blow the temperature up and over fire. So I wasn't choking it down to limit BTU output I was choking it down to prevent over firing.

I really appreciate you all helping me sort it out. It's extremely helpful and I just don't want to be in a bad situation or make any mistakes. It makes sense what you are saying.

It will be interesting to see how these other units run. I honestly don't want to install a damper which pulls me toward the blaze King, and would love similar operation which pulls me toward the Pacific energy.

I think you're correct and not worrying anymore about the box size it's just a question of which unit is best for this installation. Thanks for helping me get there and understanding it.

 

[jetsam]

y. , the best way that I could find for uemy text rstanding the firebox was to have actual people give me actual measurements with a ruler. I remember that there was one stove we were looking at that sounded like it was a good size but when the dealer measured the box, it was really a lot smaller, and we knocked it off the list for just that reason. It occurs to me that perhaps you have the option of seeing these various stoves in person and doing your own measuring. That would be the best. We did not have that option in our location in Texas without extensive driving, so we handled a lot by email and phone and private messages on this forum. It looks like you have actual measurements above, though I don’t understand the 1, 2, and 3 part. Maybe I need a second cup of coffee this morning. I don’t live in North Texas, by the way, so there aren’t any stove dealers in our immediate area. We drove five hours or so to pick up our insert a couple of years ago, and our installer drove five hours (from a different place) to do the work for us. We are close to San Antonio but northwest of there up in the hills which makes our temperatures lower. We’ve done a lot of work insulating and air sealing our house, but it has a large amount of cubic footage, numerous large windows, and sits on an uninsulated slab. It can feel quite chilly when it’s cool outside and there’s no sun, and we use the stove a lot in winter. We also let it go out for up to a week at a time when the weather is warm. We just lit it up yesterday for the first time in a while because it was gray and in the 40’s all morning, and the temperature was dropping in the house. It’s been a roller coaster here this winter, and we adjust our stove use accordingly. I’ve been reading a number of your threads recently and can’t help with this specific question about how to compare measurements of BTU output, but I thought I’d ping @jetsam to see if he can give you any insights on his older Princess Insert. He’s up in Long Island, I believe, and heats his house (or used to) with the insert. o/ I really can't post here from a phone anymore (they updated the text editor in such a way that it does not work with both Firefox and Chrome/chromium, which includes Brave). So I can't see what I'm typing, but I'll try to give you a couple thoughts: - Your later observation about actually measuring the firebox is actually a best practice. Some manufacturers include functionally unavailable spaces in their measurements; some are more honest about it and report usable space. You can't tell which is which by reading the brochure. (I also can't edit or use linefeeds, so this is probably gonna get illegible fast, sorry.) - You can heat a whole house with a a pI, but an insert is significantly handicapped as compared to a freestanding stove. Consider your bTU needs and do not get a stove whose rated output just meetsthmm unless you want to be h every 4 2weather. ss you want to be h every 4 2weather. r. ss you want to be h every 4 2weather.editor istaking several seconds per key to respond now, soo I guess I am done trying to respond , sorry.

 

[jetsam]

I will try to remember to get on from a PC after work and see if I can edit that to resemble english. (Yes, text editors work fine .)wfor me on every other site.)